Zellandine Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm not sure why Operatives are classified as mobile healers? We have a HoT that can be applied while running (not impressive), and then, if a TA procs, we get a free, instant cast heal that is lackluster and unlikely to save lives unless the incoming damage is rather minute. The heal that provides the most bang for its buck is a casted heal. So, again... Why are Operatives/Scoundrels considered mobile healers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm not sure why Operatives are classified as mobile healers? We have a HoT that can be applied while running (not impressive), and then, if a TA procs, we get a free, instant cast heal that is lackluster and unlikely to save lives unless the incoming damage is rather minute. The heal that provides the most bang for its buck is a casted heal. So, again... Why are Operatives/Scoundrels considered mobile healers? Perhaps by mobile healers they meant we're the FEMA trailers of healing? Hopeful to start, really great when you're in need and have nowhere else to turn, but they aren't built to last, won't hold up in a ****storm, and overall leave you feeling a bit sick after a while. (And before someone who has no business taking offense takes offense, those of us who lived through Katrina have to laugh about it... It keeps us sane.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagmonster Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorcs are party healers, weakest Tank Healers. Mercs are Tank healers, weakest party Healers. Ops are Middle at both, and HoT. If you are doing badly at Ops healing it's because ether you need more practice with the play style or the play stye in not for you. Ops is a very un-spam friendly and tactical play style. Personally I cannot play one because I am a spam healer, I fit Merc much better. However all 3 classes are equally viable of main healing a 16 man through Eternity Vault Hard Mode, as I have seen first hand. Are you kidding me? Please tell me you are lolololol@op being un-spam friendly All you have to do to be a decent op is *********** bind injection+surgical probe=gg. Spam it all day long and never stop. Takes SOOOOO much skill. 90% of your healing will be just that rotation+mixing in a few kolto probes on the tank. maybe a slight dash of nano on a fight like soa while doing the jumps. But really it has to be the most boring and mindless healing i've ever had the displeasure of encountering in an mmo. And thats mainly because all the other heals are so lackluster, that the above spam is one of the best ways to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Perhaps by mobile healers they meant we're the FEMA trailers of healing? Hopeful to start, really great when you're in need and have nowhere else to turn, but they aren't built to last, won't hold up in a ****storm, and overall leave you feeling a bit sick after a while. (And before someone who has no business taking offense takes offense, those of us who lived through Katrina have to laugh about it... It keeps us sane.) You sir can have my cake or pie any day of the week! +1 internets to your superior analogy, and geographical self-deprecation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damukag Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorcerer's have better burst, better utility, better mobility, easier resource management, better AoE, and a better oh **** button. Even if the Operative's heals were straight up stronger than the Sorcerer's (they aren't) it still wouldn't make up for that difference. Any smart raid or PvP group is going to understand that. Anyone arguing that Operatives have a 'niche' roll hasn't played an endgame Operative. You know what our niche is? Filling groups that don't want to wait around to pick up a sorcerer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twosixnineone Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We 2 operative healed most of the raiding content. Some fights on nightmare are just not meant for 2 of them and we edged out a lot of fights but it's do-able. Just have to have uber operatives like my group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokiliesmith Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm really confused. I finish nightmare modes with 60+% of my Force. Granted, I'm Columi+ in ever slot, and I've geared up pretty evenly with the level of content my guild clears, but it has always been that our Sorcs had a much easier time healing than the ops or bh. The Sorc just has the best kit. There is no substitute for a shield. The HoT has an armor buff. Innervate does a ton of healing, frontloads it and helps force regen. The big heal can be taken down under 1.5 sec easily. Early on most sorc use Force Bending to get the Innervate procs, which is fine. But the real strength of it lies in getting the faster DI casts in emergencies. Running out of Force is a joke. People run out of Force because they run in 2 modes. Either they are spamming or they are trying to be Force Positive. Once you are comfortable with a fight, though, that's not necessary. If you play the Triage game constantly your entire operation has a low priority at high HP. That means after a bosses AoE taking a melee down to 50% HP I can pop a HoT on him, use Force Bending to put the DI on the tank, then channel innervate on a 3rd target to heal them. And if there is AoE damage, do you know what I do? I drop the purple stuff where i WANT people to stand. If I need the melees to start backing out off Gharj on pounces I pull them back by dropping the AoE behind them. If I want the ranged to move forward to stop getting knocked off I move them up by putting the spot right in front of them, There was a time when i needed to tell people to look for it, but since we've been together so long it just kind of happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm not sure why Operatives are classified as mobile healers? Because some people are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putriss Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorc healers aren't OP. The 2 other healing classes are UP. Dont be so quick to nerf. Nerf doesent = balance. Also. After playing both Sage and Smuggler i noticed that Smug never go OOM compared to the Sage. Wich should be taken into consideration in bossfights in terms of balance. I agree, asking for a nerf isn't hte answer. The biggest problem I faced when healing with an operative is the Learning Curve. The learning curve for sorcerors is much easier in my opinion compared to that of operative. If you mess up your HoT rotation on multiple targets you waste precious energy. Our AE healing ability is not worth the point(s) needed to get it. I enjoy healing more on my operative but bad things can happen fast and it's very hard to bounce back in comparison to my sorceror. Operative healing keeps me on my toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larzheals Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Give Operatives a proper AOE heal, problem solved Not really, I would rather have HOTS that did something more then make be run out of energy. I dont know why people would think that just an AOE heal would fix a broken class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoryphos Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorc healers aren't OP. The 2 other healing classes are UP. Dont be so quick to nerf. Nerf doesent = balance. Also. After playing both Sage and Smuggler i noticed that Smug never go OOM compared to the Sage. Wich should be taken into consideration in bossfights in terms of balance. This. Sorcs may be better in a lot of ways but I don't believe it is so much that they are OP. They are just about right. The other healing classes could use some upgrades to make healing equally effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larzheals Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorcery = Stationary healing Ops = Mobile healing Sorcery only has one heal that can be cast on the run and it is a very weak HoT mainly use to get a buff. The AoE heal has such a small area of effect that it is really only good to heal the tank and what few melee happen to be in the group, and to be honest, it isn't that great of a heal compared to the Sage AoE. Mobility?!? That is how OPs are intended to be but you are not going to do much good with the hots we are given. 600-700 each 3 seconds if you stack it twice that is not going to save anyone. The AOE hot, what a joke! The only heal we really have to use on the run is surgical probe, and that requires a TA to use. We get TA from our KI 2 second cast heal and from a proc from our hot. For the most part this is how I heal Kolto ingestion followed by surgical probe (instant cast) and if I have time I will use a hot or diagnose scan. A sorc has a hot and the bubble. Its instant it protects for about 3k and it is cheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah_banana Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You have so much more in your kit than an Operative. Tank about to die? Shield. DPS about to die? Shield. Anyone Low? 1 cast heal to almost full We do nightmare modes and the difference between sorc and operative is night and day. operative cant keep up, and it it tries it goes out of energy and if it doesnt have energy boost you wipe. Preface to say I have both an Scoundrel (Op) and a Sage. Sages are made to have energy consumption problems, but truely be the 'ezmode' healing class. I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to play one effectively - the difference between a good one and a bad one is just a significantly smaller spread than the difference between a good and a bad scoundrel. I will say that I don't think the sage 'consumption problem' when played by a semi-comptetent gamer is truly enough of a problem. If they are going to have so many panic buttons, they should sacrifice longevity more than they already do. (There is no reason for me to run out of force in Ops). I would say they are easier, most notably because of bubbling. Bubbles are powerful in games with spike damage because it gives you that moment of recovery. Sawbones does get their insta-cast under 30%, and you could argue this is as good or better. HOWEVER, if upper hand is not up already (meaning you have to get lucky on a proc or cast a 2s induc) or EMP doesn't crit, you're pretty much screwed. Shield allows a moment of breathing room to actually get an induction off, and you can then cast hots/channeled heals whatever you need. I didn't want to believe Sages were OP. Then I rolled one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I would say they are easier, most notably because of bubbling. Bubbles are powerful in games with spike damage because it gives you that moment of recovery. Sawbones does get their insta-cast under 30%, and you could argue this is as good or better. HOWEVER, if upper hand is not up already (meaning you have to get lucky on a proc or cast a 2s induc) or EMP doesn't crit, you're pretty much screwed. Shield allows a moment of breathing room to actually get an induction off, and you can then cast hots/channeled heals whatever you need. That doesn't even consider the fact that Surgical Probe (or the Scoundrel equivalent) isn't going to give you a "moment of recovery". At best, you buy enough time for a second healer to get a big heal off. At worst, you end up getting stuck spamming it until the damage overcomes the healing you can provide or healing overcomes the damage enough to put the target at 31%. Common sense dictates that your most efficient heal is most likely to be one of your least powerful ones. Common sense also dictates that one of your least powerful heals shouldn't be considered your "Oh ****" button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raelimar Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I used to be an Operative Healer, but then I took a Grav Round to the knee. My Sorcerer is almost ready for raiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellandine Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I used to be an Operative Healer, but then I took a Grav Round to the knee. My Sorcerer is almost ready for raiding. My Op will have to be six feet under before I consider it. DOWN WITH THE MAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobudo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 My Op will have to be six feet under before I consider it. DOWN WITH THE MAN! He already is dead, you just don't know it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellandine Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 He already is dead, you just don't know it yet. You hurt her feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaile Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Give the same type of heals to OPs that sorcery has. Then give sorcery a cloak and a backstab. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroudveil Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Give the same type of heals to OPs that sorcery has. Then give sorcery a cloak and a backstab. Done. you forgot to add that then you need to give ops a)a pull b)an aoe knockback+root c)endless energy d)an in combat mez e)30range on his dps abilities and his cc f)shield etcetcetc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmonCruor Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 That force runs out pretty quick if you're only spamming the big heals back-to-back. You have to back off and use more conservative heals to maintain force. Sorcerer "free" heals involve innervate (9s cooldown) followed by a free consumption which refunds the cost of innervate plus 8 force at the cost of a GCD. I'm not sure how strong innervate is compared to Op/Merc free heals. underlined part is so untruth - u dont know what u talking about - i never get out of force - NEVER - with consuption and using force bending u have unlimited force. operatives are better healers in some situations (like directive7 per say) - mobility, HoT. + get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecoffeecup Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Give the same type of heals to OPs that sorcery has. Then give sorcery a cloak and a backstab. Done. You forgot the part where sorc sustained damage in PvE is nerfed because people didn't like getting backstabbed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DervimNorth Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 You forgot the part where sorc sustained damage in PvE is nerfed because people didn't like getting backstabbed They still don't and backstabbing should be toned down even more, but that would completely ruin pve. Now going back on track, sorc healers are so much better than mercs and op. With that being said, at least merc healers still have their uses, after all they are designed for single target healing. Operative healers, on the other hand are mediocre at best, at whatever they do. So why bother taking op healer if you can grab sorc+merc, or even better-sorc+sorc?! See, that's the thing-OP's mediocrity is not something that anybody would want to take up a precious space, not when there are better options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokiliesmith Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 underlined part is so untruth - u dont know what u talking about - i never get out of force - NEVER - with consuption and using force bending u have unlimited force. operatives are better healers in some situations (like directive7 per say) - mobility, HoT. + get over it. Name the operation where Ops are better and I will tell you why that fight is 10x easier when you bring a Sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lueckjathom Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Never have to worry about resources? Sorcs have the lowest force regen in the game and it can't be made better. Sure, if they're smart they get all the talents that make it so Consumption won't consume health most of the time, but that doesn't mean they don't have to manage their resources. They're also intended to be the main healers focused on the tank for the most part (with revivification assisting by healing others near the tank), while other healing classes are intended to backup heal, take care of the rest of the raid, etc. we never saw a shaman main heal a tough boss fight in WoW, taking top responsibility for the tank, and it was ok...just couldn't keep up with priests and didn't have the tools to do so really, so we always had to focus on healing the raid, slapping buffs on the tank, pulling DPSers out of a jam when they drew aggro, etc. Same is going to be true here. I believe you have other things to offer to the raid that sorcs can't. So much ignorance here.... Scoundrels and Combat Medics make fantastic main tank healers, it is what they are best at. All 3 healers can handle both main tank healing and raid healing. The Sage just has an easier time covering raid heals while the Scoundrel and Medic work really well with one target taking consistent damage. Your WoW examples are equally laughable, as all WoW healers are also equally capable, with slight niches (I was a resto shaman frequently main healing) You are right though that Sage has just as much resource management to worry about as the other two healers though. It just takes a little longer to feel the effects if you don't do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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