Dear BioWare, I am... bored.

[Marlaine]

Um.... raiding has been the primary focus of MMO's for all the major ones EXCEPT UO that started it.

 

Well, SWG didn't have any raids either. I really couldn't comment on some of the others (e.g. daoc, AC) since I didn't play them. Regardless, it really doesn't take much to figure out an activity a minority of the population participates in doesn't do much for the game as a whole. There's a reason why D2 had millions of people playing while EQ had 400k, and that reason has nothing to do with D2 being free.

 

I'm sorry but I will never support a system that artificially locks out a large portion of the playerbase. I don't know how ANYONE can think that locking out the vast majority from end-game could ever be a good thing.

[Marlaine]

I don't think the issue here with TOR is the amount of content. It's the speed at which it is completed. The amount of content is only as relevant as the amount of time to complete it. The content in game at this moment can be completed comparatively quickly when compared to other MMOs. Look at WOW at launch. It wasn't that there was a ton of content at endgame. It's that it took time to work through it. By the time BWL came out the majority of PVE players were still on MC. You can't say the same here and thus the "I'm bored' comments.

 

Long story short....it would be helpful for the long term health of the game if the game were slowed down a bit.

 

Yeah, I agree. Leveling is insanely fast in this game. That hurts the game because an unfinished end-game is reached quicker. It also hurts crafting because it's tough to justify spending credits on a piece of gear that will be replaceable in a few hours of questing.

[Proto]

This game has the worst post 50 content experience I've ever seen in any MMO. It is the MECCA of all scams. They made it seem like it was SO amazing, so complete, so polished, that it took YEARS to create, hundreds of millions for perfection - all just one fat marketing lie. Someone should definitely class action EA and refund 2 million people for this sorry POS.

[DarthMeerkat]

This game has the worst post 50 content experience I've ever seen in any MMO. It is the MECCA of all scams. They made it seem like it was SO amazing, so complete, so polished, that it took YEARS to create, hundreds of millions for perfection - all just one fat marketing lie. Someone should definitely class action EA and refund 2 million people for this sorry POS.

 

Ever play any other MMO at launch?

[Cancrizans]

I'm not sure when people started to believe that the job of a game publisher is to coddle them and entertain them no matter whether they respect the kind of game they are playing or not, but it's total nonsense.

 

If you like MMOs you should be happy with this game at its stage of development. If not, you are probably ignoring most of the game experience because you do not really enjoy most of what MMOs offer, in which case I recommend playing an FPS instead of whining to Bioware like they are your parent who needs to give you a new pacifier because you just chewed through your old one.

[fluid]

That might keep me playing until the 19th but I would not pay for another month. The problem for me is not the lack of content, it is that they focused on story. I don't like an MMO that holds up a trophy for one thing while everything else is crumbling around them. The end result is lack of content, but more than that Bioware managed to poop out an MMO. A really painful passing that must have been (and was apparantly). Maybe some people REALLY like voice dialogue and stuff, I don't. I grew up with Everquest, WoW, well pretty much most of them and they were fine.

 

I guess this type of MMO style is not for me

 

All I can say is that in other MMOs I have played with housing and a good crafting system (I will reference SWG just because it was also Star Wars) those two elements alone created unintended time-sinks and professions that kept people playing.

 

Most popular professions in SWG? Mining was #1, renting your housing lots was #2... neither of those were actual professions.

 

I even knew people that made money as "interior designers" and "decorators" ...and we played on the "pvp" server. it doesnt matter how much into "roleplay" you might be, those types of things in game keep you from doing things like blabbering in general chat, or running circles on the fleet.

[Marlaine]

What is "extensive itemization"?

 

A couple of things. First, no boss was assigned specific loot, but rather a large varying loot table. Instead of say Nefarian dropping 1-2 of each type of armor and weapon, say instead that Nefarian could drop anything the first seven bosses dropped. On top of that, multiple stats vary. So say you have a cape with the following wow stats:

 

220 intellect

300 stamina

999 spellpower

 

In the Diablo world, the same item would be:

 

180-220 intellect

260-300 stamina

696 - 999 spellpower

 

This gives you incentive to keep running the bosses, rather than getting bored with a boss because there's nothing more the boss could drop that you want or need.

 

The examples above are extremely basic, and are not exactly comparable as I"m talking a raid boss in wow vs a boss that could be solo'd in d2. So you have to keep an open mind to the concept, and try to get your mind around the type of loot tables that wow would have you believe are required for mmos.

[PjPablo]

This game has the worst post 50 content experience I've ever seen in any MMO. It is the MECCA of all scams. They made it seem like it was SO amazing, so complete, so polished, that it took YEARS to create, hundreds of millions for perfection - all just one fat marketing lie. Someone should definitely class action EA and refund 2 million people for this sorry POS.

 

A bit extreme don't you think? While I agree they have made some missteps and poor choices as far as endgame is concerned I am not sure it deserves the hyperbole you are throwing at it. If the game had been just slowed down a bit this wouldn't be as big a deal. Perhaps BW will learn from this and make the next round of content take more time to work through. It wouldn't hurt to slow down the speed at which people can gear to BIS as well.

[Calsidian]

Well I never got past level 18 in WOW so I can't comment on its endgame.

 

BUT... BUT...

 

the OP said this in criticism of TOR's endgame:

 

 

So the OP was calling the WOW endgame a "hamster wheel" which I take to mean repetitive.

 

This means YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME, which is that NO AMOUNT OF CONTENT any team of devs makes for endgame will ever be enough. Ever! Because the OP was complaining about the WOW endgame being a "hamster wheel." That's right, even the game you all say TOR should have been more like, was still too repetitive and had too little endgame content for the OP.

 

My point wasn't that TOR has enough, but that no game will EVER have enough to satisfy you people... because what you really want is a game that goes to level infinity, and has new content from level 1 to level infinity. And that's impossible.

 

And the really REALLY annoying part is that deep down you all KNOW what you're asking for is impossible, but you are asking for it anyway. I mean you don't even hide it, because in the same breath as complaining that TOR doesn't have enough to satisfy you, you also admit that WOW, which arguably has the most content ever release of any game in the history of all video gaming since the dawn of computers, doesn't have enough.

 

Nothing will ever be enough when people burn through content as hard and as fast as you folks do. Not if all the dev teams of all the MMOs on earth got together and built one game could they put out content fast enough to keep up with you guys.

 

As I say, come on now. You guys know all this is true. So why this charade of pretending to be outraged by not being given something that you know is impossible in the first place?

 

Really now, who is kidding whom?

 

You are completely missing the point the OP was trying to make in the first place because you're so locked into the WoW themepark MMO model. In your eyes, the only possibility is to churn out instance after instance, raid after raid. This is the only content you can imagine. Just more tracks added to the rail way.

 

What some people are looking for is not just more content that can be devoured and left behind soon after, but content that is sustainable. Adding elements into the game that are compelling enough, and variable enough, to keep people interested. This means user created content, compelling PvP ala DAoC style, alternate advancement, freedom of customization, etc etc.

 

TOR, however, is not built to be this kind of game. Even if Bioware decided to go more in this direction, it would take a long time to reconstruct the game in this way. So, it's unlikely to happen, and the OP and others like him are better off either waiting for something else to come along, or just accepting TOR for what it is.

[Nrrrdking]

Sounds like some people are burnt out on MMOs.

 

You can blame it on ToR but the reality is that this is a solid game. I've been through a dozen MMO launches and I don't think I've ever seen any launch go this smoothly.

 

Even then, it's still an MMO. If you're looking for something new, play something that's not an MMO.

 

I would recommend Minecraft, especially multiplayer.

[Razyr]

Well I never got past level 18 in WOW so I can't comment on its endgame.

 

BUT... BUT...

 

the OP said this in criticism of TOR's endgame:

 

 

So the OP was calling the WOW endgame a "hamster wheel" which I take to mean repetitive.

 

This means YOU ARE MAKING MY POINT FOR ME, which is that NO AMOUNT OF CONTENT any team of devs makes for endgame will ever be enough. Ever! Because the OP was complaining about the WOW endgame being a "hamster wheel." That's right, even the game you all say TOR should have been more like, was still too repetitive and had too little endgame content for the OP.

 

My point wasn't that TOR has enough, but that no game will EVER have enough to satisfy you people... because what you really want is a game that goes to level infinity, and has new content from level 1 to level infinity. And that's impossible.

 

And the really REALLY annoying part is that deep down you all KNOW what you're asking for is impossible, but you are asking for it anyway. I mean you don't even hide it, because in the same breath as complaining that TOR doesn't have enough to satisfy you, you also admit that WOW, which arguably has the most content ever release of any game in the history of all video gaming since the dawn of computers, doesn't have enough.

 

Nothing will ever be enough when people burn through content as hard and as fast as you folks do. Not if all the dev teams of all the MMOs on earth got together and built one game could they put out content fast enough to keep up with you guys.

 

As I say, come on now. You guys know all this is true. So why this charade of pretending to be outraged by not being given something that you know is impossible in the first place?

 

Really now, who is kidding whom?

 

First, take a breath, calm down, everything will be ok.

 

Next, it's not polite to refer to others as "you people". I mean come on, really, relax a little. We're trying to maintain a literate, respectful conversation here. You will see that at no point have I been outraged, as you so generally state.

 

Now, if you read my Original Post, all the way back on page one, and maybe even a few of my follow up posts, you will see that not only do I enjoy the content BioWare has offered to this point, I simply want them to go farther and vary the future content they are developing.

 

Here's a standard food analogy this thread has really been missing up to this point:

 

BioWare has given us a nice steak. Cooked just right, maybe could use a little more seasoning, but so far, for a new restaurant it's a darn good steak. For almost two months now, all we've been able to order is the steak.

 

Reading patch notes and data mined information do you know what's on the menu next month? More steak. And after that? Well, it's still more steak. Tasty steak at a reasonable price, but still steak.

 

I like steak and all, but let's get a few more items on the menu. Let's round out the menu with a few sides and maybe a desert or two. Another entree wouldn't hurt, in fact, it might encourage more people to sit down and order from the SWTOR menu.

 

They can do it. They can give us mashed potatoes. I know that BioWare is more than capable of serving up an excellent roasted chicken. Because right now, people are getting really tired of the steak.

 

Sounds like some people are burnt out on MMOs.

 

You can blame it on ToR but the reality is that this is a solid game. I've been through a dozen MMO launches and I don't think I've ever seen any launch go this smoothly.

 

Even then, it's still an MMO. If you're looking for something new, play something that's not an MMO.

 

I would recommend Minecraft, especially multiplayer.

 

Please read the Original Post in it's entirety. Thanks.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Razyr

[DarthMeerkat]

You are completely missing the point the OP was trying to make in the first place because you're so locked into the WoW themepark MMO model. In your eyes, the only possibility is to churn out instance after instance, raid after raid. This is the only content you can imagine. Just more tracks added to the rail way.

 

What some people are looking for is not just more content that can be devoured and left behind soon after, but content that is sustainable. Adding elements into the game that are compelling enough, and variable enough, to keep people interested. This means user created content, compelling PvP ala DAoC style, alternate advancement, freedom of customization, etc etc.

 

Yes too bad Bioware isn't playing on adding more WZs, Guild ships, and some sort of orange gear that you can mod.

 

Oh wait.

 

Its not so much that you want these sort of things.

 

Its just that you want them this very instant. The things you mention take some time to implement, and no amount of whining is going to speed up that process.

[djsmileey]

Last night I got home from work, helped the kids with their homework, we did the nightly chores around the house and caught up on the day. After dinner I sit down at the computer and log in, quick patch download, get to the character selection screen and...

 

...realize there isn't anything I want to do that I haven't done a million other times in other mmo's. The game just isn't offering anything exciting once you get through the story. There isn't even the slightest bit of sandbox play. Crafting is pointless, no, utterly useless. There really isn't anything fun to do.

 

This isn't another 'ragequit' post. I'm not quitting, yet. I've defended this game for the last two months, only to discover that after the initial story, it's boring as hell.

 

At least in EVERY OTHER MMO I have ever played I could roll out an alt and explore other classes, see different aspects of the world and explore new areas. Here it's the same linear path, same quests, same same same.

 

Couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

I am on my 2nd 50,(@49 right now) and have two other 30+'s

 

If you alternate Republic / Empire, it's not nearly as bad.

 

If you don't enjoy the game, thats to bad.

 

I do find it interesting you think that posting this thread will do anything.

 

You are saying what? "Dear Bioware, I am bored -- fix me", "Also, please excuse the fact that tons of others enjoy your game, I am the only one that matters."

 

This you post in the GENERAL discussion where you know it won't get any kind of response except for a potential deletion. So you don't use proper channels, but I bet you will use the argument that you are trying to "help" the game. Which we all know is a giant lie. You are just biding time trying to sabotage the game you won't play anymore until the next game comes along. I am sure you will end up doing the same thing there.

[Razyr]

Couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

I am on my 2nd 50,(@49 right now) and have two other 30+'s

 

If you alternate Republic / Empire, it's not nearly as bad.

 

If you don't enjoy the game, thats to bad.

 

I do find it interesting you think that posting this thread will do anything.

 

You are saying what? "Dear Bioware, I am bored -- fix me", "Also, please excuse the fact that tons of others enjoy your game, I am the only one that matters."

 

This you post in the GENERAL discussion where you know it won't get any kind of response except for a potential deletion. So you don't use proper channels, but I bet you will use the argument that you are trying to "help" the game. Which we all know is a giant lie. You are just biding time trying to sabotage the game you won't play anymore until the next game comes along. I am sure you will end up doing the same thing there.

 

You may want to read through my post history, because you may realize how completely wrong your entire reply to this thread is.

[Dillingor]

Last night I got home from work, helped the kids with their homework, we did the nightly chores around the house and caught up on the day. After dinner I sit down at the computer and log in, quick patch download, get to the character selection screen and...

 

...realize there isn't anything I want to do that I haven't done a million other times in other mmo's. The game just isn't offering anything exciting once you get through the story. There isn't even the slightest bit of sandbox play. Crafting is pointless, no, utterly useless. There really isn't anything fun to do.

 

This isn't another 'ragequit' post. I'm not quitting, yet. I've defended this game for the last two months, only to discover that after the initial story, it's boring as hell.

 

At least in EVERY OTHER MMO I have ever played I could roll out an alt and explore other classes, see different aspects of the world and explore new areas. Here it's the same linear path, same quests, same same same.

 

 

Huh? Try a different class, the story is hardly the same. Yes the zone progression is mostly the same after the start planet, but that's not untrue for MOST other MMOs. They might offer a SINGLE other zone of choice in a certain level area, but not some vast quantity like you are suggesting.

 

Try rolling the other faction, too. In my experience it's extremely different. There are even differing flashpoints on either side.

 

If you're bored, you're bored. There's nothing wrong with being bored, but it sounds like what you're bored of is MMOs in general. I'm willing to bet apart from levelling to cap in a new shiny MMO that might come out soon, you'd be just as bored with any other. It's not really the fault of bioware. They made an MMORPG. This is the genre, that's how it goes.

 

 

The boredom you feel is the same boredom you get from any genre once you've played several of the games. Play with your kids more

[TonyACT]

Asparhruk, I fear you are correct in your conclusions concerning thempark mmo's. I'm guessing the days of developers attempting to make a truly virtual world are over.

 

Still, I've waited almost 7 years for this mmo, ever since John Smedley gave the mmo community at large the giant middle finger. A few weeks of boredom may be discouraging, but I can give BioWare a few more months to see where they go.

 

Well, since you mention Smedley, my solution to the issues you mention has been to return to EQ2 now that it is F2P. Lo and behold I am having a blast with a large game world full of innovative systems. The alternate advancement system alone is giving me heaps to do while I level and means I won't get to cap too quickly, as seems to happen to me here.

 

I also like SWTOR, I gave them one month of sub money, but having played one toon on each faction have had enough for now.

[djsmileey]

You may want to read through my post history, because you may realize how completely wrong your entire reply to this thread is.

 

Wrong, I don't care if you were the child of Optimism for this game.

 

Posting in GENERAL DISCUSSION, instead of suggestions, or submitting actual suggestions, only gets you trolled, hated, loved; but never effective.

 

I am not wrong

[Calsidian]

Its not so much that you want these sort of things.

 

Its just that you want them this very instant. The things you mention take some time to implement, and no amount of whining is going to speed up that process.

 

It's fun to leave out the portion of my post where I said it would take time to implement these types of things, and then go on to say I want them right now this very instant.

 

Seriously?

[TonyACT]

Yes too bad Bioware isn't playing on adding more WZs, Guild ships, and some sort of orange gear that you can mod.

 

Oh wait.

 

Its not so much that you want these sort of things.

 

Its just that you want them this very instant. The things you mention take some time to implement, and no amount of whining is going to speed up that process.

 

Why does the whiner label always get thrown around when someone has made a decent thread?

 

When folks who like the game (like the OP, myself and some of the other respondents) leave the game after 30 days or so, there is something wrong.

 

I stayed with EQ 4 years after launch, 3 years in LOTRO, and 60 days here. I am not claiming the whole world will do the same, but if a significant proportion do then Bioware and EA have some thinking to do.

 

And yes, I get that a lot of folks are happy as is.

[Razyr]

Wrong, I don't care if you were the child of Optimism for this game.

 

Posting in GENERAL DISCUSSION, instead of suggestions, or submitting actual suggestions, only gets you trolled, hated, loved; but never effective.

 

I am not wrong

 

Ok, go with that. Just so you know, if you actually read my original post, you would find it full of actual suggestions, while also commenting on an overall view of the game that I may or may not correctly believe belongs within a General forum. If you wish to remain uninformed, convinced that even without full knowledge you are correct then who am I to correct you?

 

Please continue being "not wrong".

 

Thanks for posting, have an excellent day! May we return to the issue at hand?

[Marlaine]

Even then, it's still an MMO. If you're looking for something new, play something that's not an MMO.

 

Not all mmos use the wow model, and that can make those games entirely different. More often than not, people are burnt out on the wow model, not the concept of what a mmo can be.

[DarthMeerkat]

Why does the whiner label always get thrown around when someone has made a decent thread?

 

When folks who like the game (like the OP, myself and some of the other respondents) leave the game after 30 days or so, there is something wrong.

 

My problem is that you seem to not think that you can come back when/if they do add some of the things you want, and from the video they posted it looks like you might get quite a bit.

 

Complaining about the lack of content in an MMO that just released is short-sighted. My suggestion would be to cancel and wait a few months for content, that what I did with WoW for 6 years.

[Noxveritas]

Isn't doing the same thing over and over expecting different results the definition of insanity?

 

No. This is the definition of insanity.

 

Noun:

The state of being seriously mentally ill; madness.

Extreme foolishness or irrationality

[TonyACT]

Every single one besides WoW and EvE.

 

No really what do I win.

 

Nothing. 4 years in EQ and not at level cap (lots of other things to do), 30 days casual play here.

[VenthiosLestaran]

So, they give the same content in a different skin and you see that as variation? To each their own I suppose.

 

Sure if you classify same content as different bosses with different mechanics with different rewards and different settings based around a completely different combat system designed by an entirely different team of people to be the same content just because it has a similar delivery method designed from the ground up to be unlike MMO's presented to us in the past. Yes then it's the same in a different skin.

 

You could present that same argument to every MMO ever made. Improving on what came before is what needs to be focused on, not repeating more of the same. The Public Quest system was improved on by RIFT and now is being further improved upon by GW2.

 

SWTOR's raid presentation/PVP presentation is a duplicate of every gear grinder we've been given. Is this a bad thing? No, if you like it then that's your thing. Not everyone wants more of the same. In this case, more of the same, with steps Backwards in time.

Edited February 8, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran