If you are 50 and a PvPer, why are you still here?

[Lazorous]

From what I hear, the endgame PVE portion of the game isn't much better than the PVP endgame.

 

The pve content in this game is debatable depending on which pve crowd you're speaking to. And it's easier to add more pve content for a pve game, as they have plans to. It still doesn't support GW2 killing Swtor. Still apples and oranges.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Lazorous

[Yfelsung]

You asked for proof that GW was a successful PVP game.

 

E-Sport leagues are businesses that do not cover unsuccessful games that won't make them money. ESL and WSG have covered numerous GW tournaments, not to mention the in-house tournaments ArenaNet has. The only other MMO to have such E-Sport coverage was WoW Arenas. That's not to mention the millions of copies GW has sold over the years, which places it with the likes of WoW, BF2, MW2, etc.

 

Your argument will probably involve something about DAoC not being E-Sport eligible yet still being one of the best MMO PVP games (along with EVE and WoW), but that has more to do with the fact that DAoC revolved around mass PVP rather than arena PVP.

 

So, yes, do refute the fact that GW's PVP was very successful.

 

Nah nah nah dude, you didn't say "GW was a successful PvP game", you said, AND I QUOTE

 

First off, GW1's PVP was very successful, and probably the 3rd most successful PVP in an MMO after DAoC and WoW.

 

"First off, GW1's PvP was very successful."

 

That's not a claim of monetary success, you mentioned nothing of money, you said the "PvP was successful" as in other games apparently have "failed" PvP.

 

You have not defined what makes PvP a success.

 

You even ranked it's PvP as "3rd" after DAOC and WoW. Now, considering DAOC is not the 1st or 2nd most money making PvP MMO, obviously monetary success is not what you meant in that statement.

 

I am asking you what quantifies the PvP in a game as being "successful."

 

Your definition must be capable of applying to WoW, DAOC and GW since you have already ranked these 3 as the top 3.

 

A monetary argument would not apply to DAOC.

 

An Esport argument wouldn't apply to either DAOC or the first GW.

 

Both those arguments would apply to WoW, being both monetarily sucessful and an Esport, but since you've included DAOC and GW into your example, and the Esport argument fails for both of them, you obviously have some other metric of "PvP success".

 

I am asking you to define that metric. You haven't done it yet.

 

So, in one question.

 

"What defines PvP success that applies to WoW, DAOC and the first GW game"

 

Please, answer at your leisure.

 

No moving the goal posts.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Yfelsung

[dirtyv]

I wouldn't say lacking. Someone will say they have:

 

1. Datacron Easter egg hunt

2. PvE operations with various modes

3. World PvP

4. WZ PvP

5. Crafting

6. Space

7. Level another class

 

It is just that ALL of these things except 7 were implemented half-***, are mini games, and simply boring.

 

There is another game called WoW which does 1-6 100X better. For those that say SWTOR just released, why would I do 1-6 when another game does it better?

 

The real question is *** does SWTOR offer that another game doesn't do better???

 

 

Lightsabers?

[Choatley]

Third, I played GW2 at PAX East. Several times. The PVP is absolutely solid.

 

So, you're saying in the few, short test sessions at an expo you are able to determine the long term success of the mechanics in GW2? I guess everyone should be clamoring at your door to solve the MMO PVP problems, because you obviously have the eye for recognizing greatness. /sarcasm

[StalkerYuno]

only here's because there's no alternatives yet, but tera, secret world and gw2 aren't too far away.

 

this.

 

10ballz

[Yfelsung]

I should even mention, I'm no SWTOR fanboy. I like the game and will play it, but this is just a hold over until Dark Millennium Online.

 

I'm only picking at the GW2 fanboys because illogical thought processes and constant statements of subjectivity veiled as objectivity bugs me, regardless of subject matter.

[CapitaFK]

So you want to argue semantics. Ok.

 

Here's the problem with your argument: subjective statements made as fact.

 

Dawn of War is a better RTS than SC2, but SC2 is the E-sport.

 

Mortal Kombat is the more fun fighting game, but Street Fighter is the one that gets all the tournaments.

 

Halo gets more tournaments than most other FPS games, second would probably be CoD.

 

Yet are Halo and CoD the best shooters? No.

 

Being an E-sport usually means you're the less fun game.

 

Here's irony. You argue against subjective statements, yet make your own after I provide proof of GW's success (economically).

 

You asked for proof of GW's success and I provided it. GW sold itself on PVP, had the backing of major E-Sport leagues. It was monetarily successful when compared to the reigning MMORPG's of the time (FFXI and World of Warcraft). It also had staying power, selling over 7 million copies with all of its original servers intact over the course of 6 years (no server merges), which indicates a steady population across all servers.

 

So I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Are you now asking me of subjective proof of GW's success as a PVP game? Such as fun factor, balance, style of PVP? Not to mention the glaring probably in your quote from me, which when arguing semantics, denotes that I was not speaking in absolutes when I said "top 3 games". However, consider games that were widely lauded for its PVP (GW, DAoC) when compared to a game whose PVP is widely mocked, even by its own playerbase (SW:ToR).

Edited February 7, 2012 by CapitaFK

[MightyHalo]

I still like pwning noobs.

[Masahiko]

So you want to argue semantics. Ok.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's irony. You argue against subjective statements, yet make your own after I provide proof of GW's success (economically).

 

You asked for proof of GW's success and I provided it. GW sold itself on PVP, had the backing of major E-Sport leagues. It was monetarily successful when compared to the reigning MMORPG's of the time (FFXI and World of Warcraft). It also had staying power, selling over 7 million copies with all of its original servers intact over the course of 6 years (no server merges), which indicates a steady population across all servers.

 

So I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Are you now asking me of subjective proof of GW's success as a PVP game? Such as fun factor, balance, style of PVP? Not to mention the glaring probably in your quote from me, which when arguing semantics, denotes that I was not speaking in absolutes when I said "top 3 games".

 

Quick fallacy, there is in fact a shared server atmosphere such that towns are areas where people congregate but it isnt a huge multi server setup like wow or this game.

 

Side note: contuing to post about GW2 here will not accomplish anything for you or the people that like it (such as myself). We know what think it will be and that is the light on the hill. Now is the light a beacon or a warning light we wont know until its released but, its not "theme park" its a Sandbox, and we havent had a good sandbox in forever.

[Yfelsung]

So you want to argue semantics. Ok.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's irony. You argue against subjective statements, yet make your own after I provide proof of GW's success (economically).

 

You asked for proof of GW's success and I provided it. GW sold itself on PVP, had the backing of major E-Sport leagues. It was monetarily successful when compared to the reigning MMORPG's of the time (FFXI and World of Warcraft). It also had staying power, selling over 7 million copies with all of its original servers intact over the course of 6 years (no server merges), which indicates a steady population across all servers.

 

So I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here. Are you now asking me of subjective proof of GW's success as a PVP game? Such as fun factor, balance, style of PVP? Not to mention the glaring probably in your quote from me, which when arguing semantics, denotes that I was not speaking in absolutes when I said "top 3 games". However, consider games that were widely lauded for its PVP (GW, DAoC) when compared to a game whose PVP is widely mocked, even by its own playerbase (SW:ToR).

 

So you're not going to provide the metric by which you ranked and defined the "success" of a game's PvP?

 

You're also going to imply the statement that no one who played DAoC or GW ever mocked it's PvP?

 

By extention, you're going to pretend the forums of those two games were not just as bad as the forums of this game, for WoW, WAR, AoC and even the current fan and official GW2 forums?

 

Every MMO ever released has had a significant and loud forum base of people who claim the game sucks and is dying/failing. Every MMO ever. Every MMO has been mocked by it's own players because no MMO can please everyone.

 

Yet you continue the cycle. "This next one will be better guys." then "Okay, that was a disappointment, but the NEXT one guys, seriously."

 

The words that come from your mouth began coming the day the second MMO was ever announced, and the words that come from your mouth will continue coming out until the day that gaming dies.

 

You are less a person with a valid opinion and more an echo.

[Revanmug]

-A few amusing thing I find from people that keep cheering the name of GW2 is that none seems to have or BE playing GW1. It was a very good pvp game. Too bad there is almost nobody playing it now on when I log. Then again, the numerous expansion, with numerous new ability(and alot of copy paste from older expansion) start breaking the beauty of the game and gamebreaking build start appearing more and more. Add that those build took very long to "break". You had to endure it or do it yourself.

 

-I find it amusing that soo many people keep saying that World pvp doesn't exist on swtor. True enough. Bad new for you though, GW1 didn't AND the 2 won't have any either... Everything is instance! Well, not a good start for alot of pvper! right?

 

-If GW2 followed the first one, don't hope for any other mini-game if you get a little bored. Pve was horrible and hunting achievement(which was add way later) was... quite awfully grindy. Grind and pvp mentality doesn't match right?

 

-And finally... I remember all those praise of GW when it was going out. It was suppose to be Heaven finally accessible to the mass and destroy the hellish forces of WoW and company!

...

Guess what, even if GW pvp was awesome, It didn't really do anything. GW is a forgotten game even for its good pvp and the only reason people whisper its name is because the 2 is coming out.

 

It is shameful for all those who actually played and like the original game.

[Axethales]

This is why all of you guys need to follow the success of my MMO that I'm working on:

 

Pie in da face online

 

Basically:

 

You send me money each month.

 

You can log in and throw unlimited pies at other players. You earn points for face shots only so you have to aim well (true twitch game FYI)

 

Once you earn enough points, you can buy better looking pies.

 

There are no classes, just one class so there is literally no imbalance.

 

There is no leveling since thats nonsense - you just get end game PvP.

 

If you earn enough points you can dual wield pies.

 

Lastly - send me more money and I give you a special ability to toss pies in semi-automatic mode with a GIANT Gears of War looking pie launcher.

[Nadrojjj]

I'll give you the same courtesy that I gave people in WoW after they were saying the same thing a few months after release:

 

1. Can I have your stuff?

2. Don't let the door hit your ***** on the way out

3. bai.

 

 

 

On another note, to the guys that are ************ about the speed of bug fixes that likely don't understand the software development process due to their clear immaturity or general lack of common sense, it takes time and testing to implement a change. If they implemented an on the fly change that resulted in very major bugs (eg: preventing you from travelling to Ilum at all, or gave the other team valor when you kill them, or stuck death, etc etc), you'd be raising hell on the forums demanding your money back, or threatening a frivolous lawsuit, or threatening suicide, or something equally as stupid and juvenile.

 

tl;dr: If you don't like it, go play something else but don't post about it. ***** to customer service, not other players.

 

 

This x 100. I came from Final Fantasy 11. This game is a breath of fresh air. It's still very very early in the build of the game, yes there are bugs, yes I rage when I don't get credit for my pvp win, but I know BW and EA want this game to succeed and they will pour the resources into it that are needed. The speed of content release and the bug fixes is actually extremely quick, but most of you haven't been there from the start of a MMO. Any WoW player who picked it up at the jump can tell you horror stories of the servers not even being online half the time when the game first launched. Any final fantasy player can tell you it took six months from hitting max for the first small "here guys here's some more **** to do" expansion. The problem with the internet age, gamers, and MMO'ers especially is that they want instant gratification.

 

The attitude of, FIX THIS OR I'M QUITTING, gets you no where. No one thinks you are cool, in fact most of us are happy you are leaving. Perfection takes time, rome wasn't built in a day. If you don't like the game don't log on it's as simple as that.

 

TLDR: go cry somewhere else about unsubbing.

[SWImara]

There is no leveling since thats nonsense - you just get end game PvP.

 

If you earn enough points you can dual wield pies.

Dual wield pies = gross imbalance unless allowed to everyone from day 1 - this game fails!

Edited February 7, 2012 by SWImara

[Fluffosaurusrex]

I'm sticking around, because I know within a few months they will most likely add to the pvp area of the game and hopefully give us ranked warzones.

 

All you people that expect everything to be perfect less than two months from launch are really stretching. Have the same patience as people did when WoW released. Many features of that game were non existant, as well as many of the bugs were not worked out at launch either.

 

Roll a few toons to 50, go play something else and come back when they add the updates if the only other alternative is to gripe about it.

 

I hate posts like this. Stop acting like it is OK for developers to release buggy unfinished products.

[tonpu]

Huttball and the possibility of another insanely fun wz like huttball.

[PostalTwinkie]

Huttball and the possibility of another insanely fun wz like huttball.

 

I find Huttball to be rather fun when the teams are even and filled with players that know how to play it. I can see where the devs were going with this one.

[CapitaFK]

So you're not going to provide the metric by which you ranked and defined the "success" of a game's PvP?

 

You're asking me to provide an abstract measure of success because you can't argue against the monetary success of Guild Wars in sales, and its success as an E-Sport.

 

Yeah, come back when you have a better argument.

[PreludeTTO]

I hate posts like this. Stop acting like it is OK for developers to release buggy unfinished products.

 

Almost every single game released has bugs in it. If they waited to fix every minor detail and even large problems the game would never relase. We'd be waiting till the end of time to get any game. I mean look at the Call of Duty franchise. Every one of those games is the exact same with a few small additions. All the maps have bugs and glitches in them but people buy that **** up like there is no tomorrow.

 

As someone said earlier, Rome was not created in a day and even after it was finished there were still major flaws in it.

 

I think the game is great and I'm coming from WoW, although I havent played that in about a year or two. And one more thing, I don't see how people have all the time in the world to level up non stop. I have a full tme job and I play for a couple hours after work and I still find more and more to do. I haven't reached 50 yet but I'm at 28 with two other 20 level toons that I play with some friends and I feel like I play constantly.

 

If you beat everything there is to do before the game can release more content then you sadly have no life or still live with your parents.

 

Just my two cents on this. I haven enjoyed reading all of this and all the arguments though.

 

EDIT: Not trying to compare an MMO and a FPS, just saying is all.

Edited February 7, 2012 by PreludeTTO

[vrok-]

You're asking me to provide an abstract measure of success because you can't argue against the monetary success of Guild Wars in sales, and its success as an E-Sport.

 

Yeah, come back when you have a better argument.

Guild Wars? LOL? You must mean WoW. Guild Wars is nothing compared to WoW in both categories. Also, Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

Edited February 7, 2012 by vrok-

[PalawaJoko]

I canceled but have a few months left, since I paid 6 month sub

 

What is your excuse?

Same boat. Paid for a sub, have only logged rarely to collect a few datacrons for my both 50 lvl chars and then logged off. Yeah I'm bored, because I didn't think huttball would be the only way to PvP in this game. Who knew. Edited February 7, 2012 by PalawaJoko

[Winteria]

Waiting for GW2 as well, this game looked fun at first but its just pathetic faillure with no end game or open pvp...

 

I had 3 months prepaid big mistake..

[seallone]

only here's because there's no alternatives yet, but tera, secret world and gw2 aren't too far away.

 

you missed blades and soul omg LOOKS EPIC

[darth_knine]

-A few amusing thing I find from people that keep cheering the name of GW2 is that none seems to have or BE playing GW1. It was a very good pvp game. Too bad there is almost nobody playing it now on when I log. Then again, the numerous expansion, with numerous new ability(and alot of copy paste from older expansion) start breaking the beauty of the game and gamebreaking build start appearing more and more. Add that those build took very long to "break". You had to endure it or do it yourself.

 

-I find it amusing that soo many people keep saying that World pvp doesn't exist on swtor. True enough. Bad new for you though, GW1 didn't AND the 2 won't have any either... Everything is instance! Well, not a good start for alot of pvper! right?

 

-If GW2 followed the first one, don't hope for any other mini-game if you get a little bored. Pve was horrible and hunting achievement(which was add way later) was... quite awfully grindy. Grind and pvp mentality doesn't match right?

 

-And finally... I remember all those praise of GW when it was going out. It was suppose to be Heaven finally accessible to the mass and destroy the hellish forces of WoW and company!

...

Guess what, even if GW pvp was awesome, It didn't really do anything. GW is a forgotten game even for its good pvp and the only reason people whisper its name is because the 2 is coming out.

 

It is shameful for all those who actually played and like the original game.

 

Yes but GW focused on something specific and that was guild vs guild skill based PvP. I see GW2 also maintaining focus. Remember GW and GW2 both did new things.

 

SWTOR is epic fail because they haven't tried to do anything new for pvp and also pve. It is same boring **** we all have played for years except worse SWTOR did a poorer job of deliver clone content formula / game mechanics and that is equation for epic fail.

 

 

Even if SWTOR solved imba problems and game mechanics, the content is simply boring and nothing new.

Edited February 7, 2012 by darth_knine

[Darkensid]

Did I miss the big sign on the website that states that this game was perfect and free of any bugs? All these people act like they were robbed as consumers when in actuality, Bioware never promised you perfection.

 

I am a fan of star wars as a franchise, and therefor I am able to enjoy the game for what it is. That doesn't have to mean this is a best game out there, honestly what does that have to do with anything. Every game that is out or will come out will be basically the same thing with slightly different flavors. Star wars is like WoW or any other fantasy MMOs only with Lightsabers and lasers. It comes down to one question, Do you like the game? If you don't enjoy it, leave. Honestly, no one cares why.