Are Sith really evil?

[TrollBerzerker]

If you're just going by what the movies are showing you, you have to understand that they are all from the Jedi's perspective. Of course the opposing side is going to look "evil" in comparison, you know what your side is more intimately. You know the motivations and relationships on the Jedi's side because you see it in front of you.

 

You never really get to see the innerworkings of the sith order, you know they could be throwing office parties, keggers, and whatnot. My point is you don't know as much about the sith as you do the jedi because that's how the movies wanted it, just enough to support the given story that they are evil.

 

It's called the dark side for a reason. Also the EU has expanded on both jedi and sith since then, and sith are definitely evil. Like I said, this has never been ambiguous. It's not meant to be in question.

 

Again, not saying that everything will fall into the category of absolute good or absolute evil, but the sith definitely are.

[CupOHemlock]

No Sith arent Evil.

 

Evil is a construct of churches, it doest exist in the real world or in SW.

 

The Sith are merely completely self obsessed.

 

THAT is absurd. Evil is the essence of selfishness over the welfare of others. No church makes this so.

[TheCapz]

Star Wars needs bad guys. The sith and the empire fill that role.

[Isilme_Turuphant]

Just to chip in my two cents.

 

I play a Sith Inquisitor, and i can say as a whole the Empire is evil.

 

This does not mean, however, that everyone who is part of it is evil, or even a majority. The Empire is full of heroism, sacrifice, and individuals who perform noble deeds and goals. But at it's core, it is built on a foundation of selfishness and greed.

 

The Empire doesn't SELL itself as evil, and the vast majority of those who serve it certainly don't believe it is. I don't think even Darth Malgus himself sees himself as evil... Most see the Empire as a necessity. The Republic is corrupt and weak... in the Imperial view it drags down the exceptional and forces them into the muck with the weak and lazy in the name of 'equality'. Their protectors preach stripping oneself of all that makes one alive... love, attachment, joy, passion... and yes, rage, fear and hate.

 

If the Empire was what it billed itself as, what the majority of those who fight for it believe it to be, it would hardly be evil. Certainly not GOOD, not FAIR... but not EVIL. It would be very much a typical Imperial system, like Rome, with perhaps some aspects of Samurai-era Japan tossed in.

 

The issue is, the Emperor and the Dark Council ARE Evil. Capital 'E' evil. The Emperor's ultimate motive is to consume all life in the universe. The Dark Council basically all aspire to eventually overthrow him and do the same, or remold the Universe in some other megalomaniacal way. When followed to the letter, the Sith Code is inherently self-destructive: When Hate is your primary power source, and everyone is out to get you, you have to hate ALL THE TIME. That's not possible to do without going insane.

[MDav]

This again

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chosen_one

 

Read the behind the scenes

[Marak]

There is not enough of the EU being brought into this debate. People want to go off the movies and the movies simplify things for ease of storytelling.

 

Yes Palpatine was evil. No the Sith code does not make one evil.

 

 

To make it so easy black and white is to do it no justice as the philosophies are far more deep and intriguing than that.

 

 

Boxing it in such a way only gives you one story when there are many stories to be had. Look at the story of Star Wars itself.

 

The original trilogy was filmed as a Hero's Journey story. It was the story of Luke.

The entire film story is not a Hero's Journey story at all. It is a classic fall/redemption story.

 

That's where I think most people get caught up in the whole Sith = evil thing.

 

Hell just look at the story of Revan. Pre-redemption Darth Revan wasn't really evil at all. He disagreed with the Jedi regarding their stance on the Mandolorian genocide of the Cathar, so he went off to fight. At some point he found the ancient Sith empire and learned the Sith teachings, thus becoming Darth Revan. He then found the Starforge and started to construct an armada to wage war with the Republic. This is the crucial part. Why did he do that? I would not at all say this was an evil act. From his perspective, the Jedi and the Republic were enablers of the Cathar genocide and just wanted to make sure that they could never do that again.

 

Later on in the story when we're now Jedi-reborn Revan and we're fighting Malak on the Starforge, Malak reveals to us that Revan purposefully held back on harvesting the dark side power of the Starforge. This is something Malak could not resist doing and thus became corrupted. This goes to motivation. Revan, the sith, drew the line and did not become the monster that Malak did.

 

This is further examined by the Revanites in game. They see Revan's story as the Sith that was balanced and uncorrupted.

 

 

 

And then there is the legion of Dark Jedi that I don't even want to get into.

[Tawkis]

I find most people always have to say something like this in regards to the Sith.

 

"It's not evil because .... "

 

It's like saying

 

"It's not drinking and driving because ... "

 

"It's not stealing because ... "

 

Generally, I find that when you need to apply that reasoning you're usually wrong.

 

Not always, but usually.

[TrollBerzerker]

Are you talking about the same Revan who later acknowledged that he had fallen to the dark side?

 

The force is separated into light(GOOD) and dark(EVIL) sides. The jedi cannot be evil, and the sith cannot be good. If a sith becomes good, he is no longer a sith. If a jedi becomes evil, he is no longer a jedi. There's a middle ground there, gray jedi and the like, but if you ever tip over into evil then you have become a sith.

 

Sith is basically a word for evil jedi. We could easily exchange their names with Paladin and Blackguard and we'd get the same result. It's good knights versus evil knights.

[Grondoth]

I can't believe that this topic is alive and well still. Cmon people. Are you paying attention to the game you're playing?

[GuyTallman]

 

Sith is basically a word for evil jedi. We could easily exchange their names with Paladin and Blackguard and we'd get the same result. It's good knights versus evil knights.

 

And lo, did we reach the crux of the debate, and as usual, we find our nemesis to be semantics.

 

Saving everyone heartache here, if trollberzerker believes that the literal definition of sith is "an evil force user" then there is no quibbling over this. Agree that you have different definitions. Or (Because I know you are going to do this) argue over whose definition is more right.

[Marak]

Are you talking about the same Revan who later acknowledged that he had fallen to the dark side?

 

The force is separated into light(GOOD) and dark(EVIL) sides. The jedi cannot be evil, and the sith cannot be good. If a sith becomes good, he is no longer a sith. If a jedi becomes evil, he is no longer a jedi. There's a middle ground there, gray jedi and the like, but if you ever tip over into evil then you have become a sith.

 

Sith is basically a word for evil jedi. We could easily exchange their names with Paladin and Blackguard and we'd get the same result. It's good knights versus evil knights.

 

This is simply wrong. The very fact that you can be a LS Sith in game means that LucasArts, the deity that is in charge of the overarching philosophies here, believes this to be wrong.

 

They wouldn't have put in alignment if they thought otherwise. Bioware didn't just get free reign to start messing with lore. LucasArts okay'd it.

[TrollBerzerker]

And lo, did we reach the crux of the debate, and as usual, we find our nemesis to be semantics.

 

Saving everyone heartache here, if trollberzerker believes that the literal definition of sith is "an evil force user" then there is no quibbling over this. Agree that you have different definitions. Or (Because I know you are going to do this) argue over whose definition is more right.

 

This isn't a semantics discussion. The topic is asking if the sith are evil. Yes, they are. You can go to wookieepedia and the first opening paragraph will tell you everything you need to know. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

 

There's nothing about the sith that even opens it to discussion that they might not be evil. Everything about their order screams evil. I'd say they're one step off of kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies, except I'm fairly certain they do both of those things.

 

This is simply wrong. The very fact that you can be a LS Sith in game means that LucasArts, the deity that is in charge of the overarching philosophies here, believes this to be wrong.

 

No, it's not wrong. You can't be a light-sided sith. What we get from the LS warrior and inquisitor are simply sith who are more merciful and sane than others. They're still hungry for power, they still do evil things.

 

Actually, I'm not even sure that the LS sith warrior is more sane. I got a distinctive feel of schizophrenia from mine, as her beliefs, demeanor and actions repeatedly and radically shifted in tone even with me actively trying to pick the good options.

Edited February 7, 2012 by TrollBerzerker

[Marak]

I have a 50 LS Guardian and a 35 LS Assassin. Both pure LS. 0 DS points.

 

Both of them have made the same types of decisions. The Jedi kills in the name of the Republic and saves the weak. The Sith kills in the name of the Empire and saves the weak.

 

Virtually zero difference.

 

 

I would actually go so far as to say my Sith seems MORE good than the Jedi does as he tries to avoid conflict more often in his decisions whereas the Jedi basically never tries to play diplomat and always ends up killing the nearest 50 people in an attempt to find the nearest doomsday device and deactivate it.

 

 

You are stuck on the Sith = Dark Side = Evil absolutist paradigm and it is simply not the case. Nothing except the fact that I use some lightning abilities on my assassin would even make him remotely evil.

 

edit: as for

No, it's not wrong. You can't be a light-sided sith. What we get from the LS warrior and inquisitor are simply sith who are more merciful and sane than others. They're still hungry for power, they still do evil things.

 

Actually, I'm not even sure that the LS sith warrior is more sane. I got a distinctive feel of schizophrenia from mine, as her beliefs, demeanor and actions repeatedly and radically shifted in tone even with me actively trying to pick the good options

Why does it say I'm LS4? Not LessCrazy4?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Marak

[DarthOmeges]

The Sith and Jedi want the same things in the galaxy, Power, but the forms they seek it in are different.

 

The Jedi seek power through knowledge, peace, and truth

The Sith seek power through strength, passion, and determination

 

They can be jugded good or bad depending on poin of view. To a Sith the Jedi are genocidal maniacs whom want to purge them from the galaxy. To a Jedi the Sith are dark monsters whom want to distroy all civilization. It's all based on point of view, no one side is genuinly evil or good.

[xxBreemenxx]

Yes..

[TrollBerzerker]

You are stuck on the Sith = Dark Side = Evil absolutist paradigm and it is simply not the case.

 

You can debate with me all you want but this will still be the case. The dark side is evil, people who use the dark side are evil, and the sith will always use the dark side. Your inquisitor is an impossibility born from the fact Bioware had to give them the option to go light-side simply because it would make it impossible for them to design all of the class-neutral LS/DS decisions for the Empire. They either would have to make a unique set of options for Sith, block bounty hunters and agents from choosing LS decisions, or simply lock out the LS options from the sith classes. Given those options, breaking the lore is the least harmful.

 

Your character is constantly channeling their hatred and anger, and no matter how good his/her intentions, s/he would be dragged down by the corruptive influence of the dark side and made into a monster.

 

But that doesn't happen. So consider your inquisitor an exception to the rule. The rule being that sith are evil.

Edited February 7, 2012 by TrollBerzerker

[Marak]

You can debate with me all you want but this will still be the case. The dark side is evil, people who use the dark side are evil, and the sith will always use the dark side. Your inquisitor is an impossibility born from the fact Bioware had to give them the option to go light-side. She or he is constantly channeling their hatred and anger, and no matter how good his/her intentions, s/he would be dragged down by the corruptive influence of the dark side and made into a monster.

 

But that doesn't happen. So consider your inquisitor an exception to the rule. The rule being that sith are evil.

 

But your rule is already broken by the existence of so many Dark Jedi in the EU. I'll admit there aren't a whole lot of LS Sith, but there is a LEGION of Dark Jedi.

 

Your equation cannot be right.

 

If Jedi can be dark-- Sith can be light. If we hold to this light = good and dark = evil thing than some sith = good and thus, not all Sith are evil.

[TrollBerzerker]

But your rule is already broken by the existence of so many Dark Jedi in the EU. I'll admit there aren't a whole lot of LS Sith, but there is a LEGION of Dark Jedi.

 

Your equation cannot be right.

 

If Jedi can be dark-- Sith can be light. If we hold to this light = good and dark = evil thing than some sith = good and thus, not all Sith are evil.

 

Dark jedi are basically the same thing as sith. The sith are a name for the most well-known dark side cult in the galaxy. Key words being, dark side cult.

[Marak]

Dark jedi are basically the same thing as sith. The sith are a name for the most well-known dark side cult in the galaxy. Key words being, dark side cult.

 

But they aren't. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Jedi

Dark Jedi are just evil Jedi. They are not Sith.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Marak

[Ziggoratt]

Are you talking about the same Revan who later acknowledged that he had fallen to the dark side?

 

The force is separated into light(GOOD) and dark(EVIL) sides. The jedi cannot be evil, and the sith cannot be good. If a sith becomes good, he is no longer a sith. If a jedi becomes evil, he is no longer a jedi. There's a middle ground there, gray jedi and the like, but if you ever tip over into evil then you have become a sith.

 

Sith is basically a word for evil jedi. We could easily exchange their names with Paladin and Blackguard and we'd get the same result. It's good knights versus evil knights.

 

You're taking an extremely close-minded view to this. Sith are not Evil Jedi. They are Force Users who follow the Sith Code.

 

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion." -- This is not a declaration of war, this is a statement of belief. Sith believe that peace is a temporary effect, and that the universe cannot help but fall into war.

"Through passion, I gain strength." -- This line speaks to channeling passion as a force conduit, and embracing what makes one human (Using human as a general term to include all races). Where Jedi shun acts of passion, basically seeing them as sinful, Sith accept that it's a part of existence, and embrace it.

"Through strength, I gain power." -- This line addresses the Sith's search for power. Yes, this is self-serving, but think about it... What person isn't self-serving in the end? Our first instinct is survival. Self-preservation. A trait that Jedi supposedly reject, but Sith embrace. Remember, a Sith's ultimate goal is to gain immortality through power.

"Through power, I gain victory." -- Through self-preservation, they will not fall to anyone.

"Through victory, my chains are broken." -- Refusing to be bound to the chains of society or servitude. (For Sith Inquisitors, this can be taken literally, as they started out as slaves)

"The Force shall free me." -- The force is the tool to attain my freedom, power, and ultimate desires.

 

The core Sith ideology isn't evil in the slightest. It's embracing the nature of mortals, as opposed to denying it, as Jedi do.

 

As a Sith, I have had the chance to do a multitude of good things. The choice to leave the Revanites in peace is a fine example. Another is a choice I recently made. I had two options. Leave a bundle of Republic miners to die in a mine, or free them out of kindness. I chose the latter.

 

The Sith choose a different way of wielding the force, using passion as opposed to apathy. Does this sound truly evil? In my humble opinion, it does not. In fact, it sounds like a preferable ideology than that of the Jedi.

 

Now, the reason the Sith seem evil as a whole is because, while there is the option of good within the Sith Code, there is also the capacity for true, unrelenting evil.

[TrollBerzerker]

But they aren't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Jedi

 

Dark Jedi are just evil Jedi. They are not Sith.

 

Only by strict definition. They don't become part of the sith order, but the sith and dark jedi are still both evil.

[Marak]

Only by strict definition. They don't become part of the sith order, but the sith and dark jedi are still both evil.

 

You already said that a Jedi cannot be evil-- he is a Sith. This is proven wrong. So your whole equation is wrong.

 

If there exists a Dark Jedi then there must exist the possibility of a Light Sith.

[TrollBerzerker]

You already said that a Jedi cannot be evil-- he is a Sith. This is proven wrong. So your whole equation is wrong.

 

If there exists a Dark Jedi then there must exist the possibility of a Light Sith.

 

By definition, no, there isn't. The sith are a cult that uses the dark side of the force. If you're not using the dark side, you're not a sith. If you're using the dark side, you will ultimately become evil, even if your intentions didn't start that way.

 

Also, to the guy talking about the sith code, the Jedi code doesn't necessarily define good either. The sith code talks about power and freedom, the jedi code talks about tranquility and peace. The code is irrelevant, however - the source of their power is what counts.

[Marak]

By definition, no, there isn't. The sith are a cult that uses the dark side of the force. If you're not using the dark side, you're not a sith. If you're using the dark side, you will ultimately become evil, even if your intentions didn't start that way.

 

Also, to the guy talking about the sith code, the Jedi code doesn't necessarily define good either. The sith code talks about power and freedom, the jedi code talks about tranquility and peace. The code is irrelevant, however - the source of their power is what counts.

 

By whose definition? Again I defer to the simple fact that I'm logged into the game right now.. on a Sith.. who has 0 sith corruption as a result of being Light Side 4. That sounds pretty damn definitive to me.

 

LucasArts and Leeland Chee (the God of all things SW Lore) have deemed Light Sided Sith a truth. It's in the lore now. It might not have been back in November, which is infinitely debatable, but it is now.

[TrollBerzerker]

By whose definition? Again I defer to the simple fact that I'm logged into the game right now.. on a Sith.. who has 0 sith corruption as a result of being Light Side 4. That sounds pretty damn definitive to me.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side_of_the_Force

 

Your character is an exception to the rule. One that I still don't feel makes any real sense. Did you feel particularly light-sided while on Taris? Or Alderaan? I didn't. I felt like the mere concept of playing a light sided sith was beginning to fall apart at the seams.