va_wanderer Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yeah, AP is in a rough spot. Tough to buff it without overdoing our burst damage, and because of it it's of relatively limited use in PvE. Most of the time, I'd rather have the AoE to keep mobs attention instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figmentus Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You're right...it makes it impossible to kill anyone: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=276763 I should have been specific, my comments are related to AS for Commando. Vanguards get the extra proc for plasma cell which Commandos don't. Also the defensive skills not to mention the awesome harpoon! Though your sarcasm is appreciated :-) (see what I did there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Links_Knight Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 For a tree specific skill, at lvl 40, boltstered to 50 in the WZ,s....it does....300 damage on impact and get this....1063 over 18 seconds!!! BWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!! 18 seconds? Really? This is our grav round? Our tree sepcific skill? Excuse me while I ROLF o' copter! My God. No wonder no one plays this spec. It is pathetically weak. I cant beat anyone in this game in any WZ one on one. The damage is so pathetic. This skill needs to be increased by 200% at least. My God.....1063...over 18 Seconds. There are classes that can put out 5K in 3seconds....LOL! Incendiary....missspelled Obviously has no idea how to play his class so resorts to coming to the forums. In short you're doing it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varcan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well it beats every class but Marauder and Darkness Assassin. And that's only the really good ones. But Vanguard is my alt, so go ahead and buff it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleJimbo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Each class can shine when in the hands of a good player. If you look over the forums people complain that their class is underpowered, but if you search for videos there are some player that make it look so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyGreen Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I know the rotation and I know what it does. Assault sucks, period. The damage is slow pathetic. Thats why none of you in this thread are specced that way. I have tried multiple specs, but started with assault and am running it again as we speak. Clearly you don't understand the spec or incendiary round for you too dismiss it so quickly. I don't see how you can complain about a 18 sec DOT, unless your one of the useless players ignoring the objectives so you can get a kill. I think you seriously under estimate the assault tree, it is a hard hitting and a consistent build when handled right. My only gripe is the cost of Inc Round, but tbh, it's already easy enough to interrupt entire teams from capping objectives for 18 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyGreen Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I agree, you shouldn't be able to use both at the same time. But the 31 point, top tier skill should not be a recycle of a level 5 skill. It should at least have an aoe like sticky grenade. Or add a debuff to make target more susceptible to elemental ticks of the fire DoT. Or do bonus damage to burning targets. Any one of those three would make it worthy of a 31 point investment. Now I understand that AS is a support class, it is not meant to 1 v 1 anyone. I understand that. Rarely (if I can avoid it) do I get in 1 v 1's because they can just cleanse my DoT and go to town on me because I have no interrupt. But I do think that the top tier skill should be a reward for investing 31 points in a tree. Right now Assault Plastique is a slap in the face, and as soon as I get 50 (currently 48) I will respec and take 1-3 points out of the top of the Assault tree and stick them in Gunnery to get the bonus to stock strike and aoe knockback. Need all the possible interrupts I can get. Its not a recycle of a lvl 5 skill persay, it recieves a 15% crit damage bonus in the assault tree which does lead to a much higher crit over sticky grenade. Is it worth it, thats hard to say but it has helped me, and on hte plus side at least its not energy shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davionix Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Dont want to hijack the thread and turn it into Assault Plastique discussion but this talent has its advantages to sticky grenade which I would like to mention. ( From a Vanguard Assault viewpoint. ) Apart from its burst benefits at PvP, there are times at PvE when you want to burst a single target without breaking CC effects on nearby mobs (eg. Strong Droids spawned by extra boss at Kaon Under Siege, elite robots with knockback at False Emperor, and various other HM Flashpoint/Operations situations requring CC and focused DPS) Assault plastique provides you with both another DPS ability and also a semi-CC where you can throw it to a normal mob while running to pack & blitz/HIB ( Heavy Impact Bolt ) the target once the AP lands, changing to another target to DPS knowing well that when the AP explodes the previous target will be dead or almost dead. TL;DR Unless AoE is free to go "stick" to Assault Plastique. Edited February 8, 2012 by Davionix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojahar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Now I understand that AS is a support class, it is not meant to 1 v 1 anyone. I understand that. Rarely (if I can avoid it) do I get in 1 v 1's because they can just cleanse my DoT and go to town on me because I have no interrupt. Assault is amazing in 1v1. I've been jumped by melee while I'm below half health and they're full, and I absolutely wreck them. Spam hammer shot for the slow and stay between 5-10 meters, and warriors/knights cant charge or attack. Kite further than 10m for other melee. Use plastique/HIB every cooldown and keep incendiary on them, and fill the rest with hammer shot, which applies faster than they can cleanse, and you never have to stop moving. On ranged, instead of kiting, just throw plastique/HIB/incendiary out, and LOS, only popping out to refresh. Assault is great for dueling. Edited February 8, 2012 by Rojahar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirokinae Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) The OP doesn't really seem to understand the intricacies of dealing damage. Incendiery round isn't designed to be a powerful 1 shot attack that lol kills everyone. You're forgetting the main assets of IR. First that it is an ability you only use once every 18 seconds, so its like a fire and forget missile. You shoot it off once, then dont worry about it for 18 seconds while it deals added damage on top of your rotation. Secondly you probably dont understand the difference of damage types, but you forget that IR is "elemental" damage. It completely ignores armor, unlike most of your other attacks. Which is why ion pulse deals less damage as well. It ignores armor. When you look at the long run, the full duration of IR's dot + initial damage over 18 is higher than assault plastique, especially since AP is fully mitigated by armor, so its just damage on TOP of your current damage Third, you dont seem to understand much outside of "argh i dont see big numberz". Take into consideration that IR boosts the damage of MOST of your main abilities by 9%. So that means just having IR on a target is boosting the damage of almost every single ability by a straight 9% damage through the "rain of fire" talent. Assault is a much more mobile spec than gunnery, which requires you to stack 5 grav round shots and then follow with another hardcast in order to maximize damage. Very rarely are you gonna get the oppourtunity to do that in a hectic pvp enviornment. I see a commando grav round/tracer missile go off, and its my first instinct to interrupt it and mess up pretty much their entire rotation. The potential for burst in assault is much greater for vanguards than tactics or shield. incendiary round tick + AP delay + plasma round tick + a HIB round equates for some serious burst, and even more so with commandos due to the higher base damage they deal, in addition to the addition of charged bolts which hits harder per shot than ion pulse/stockstrike and the armor piercing nature of their cell. Also when y ou take into consideration that IR ticks are still damaging even when you're out of line of sight or unable to get to your target, the fact that IR's dot will pull people who have re-stealthed back out, and the ability to prevent a cap for a full 18 seconds makes IR's utility invaluable. I'm sorry you aren't able to utilize or grasp the more advanced concepts of your class, and hope you are able put some thought into it in the future. Edited February 8, 2012 by Hirokinae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think IR needs to do more damage as well. For the simple reason that you can't negate the damage from Grav Round by cleanse. Try fighting an IA as Assault Specialist. Cleanse cleanse cleanse cleanse.... . See it positive, if they cleanse they waste a GCD, as you can Hammershot the dot quickly back on, if you run plasma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waagabond Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Im sorry but dots from other classes is a tad better yes. Scoundrel dot if you place 4 talent points to make it stronger, is stronger. But incend is NOT about damage, it does decent damage. Its first a dot, which prevents people from tagging or planting. But above all, it means you can use your High impact bolt. And above all, with rain of fire you have 9% extra damage on your main attacks on a target on fire. Add in Burnout and incend actually ticks rather nice. The only dot so far ive seen that can hit hard is scoundrel vital shot, but thats when specd into it for 18% more damage and 25% chance per tick to do 2 ticks, and both can crit. Incend round is 1 talent and helps us fire HIB and thats what its used for. And again, the damage when it crits on targets below 30% and you have burnout, is nothing to laugh at, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku_Warrior Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am commando and pretty much full assault spec apart from some of the obviously **** perks. The DoTs... I'm pretty sure plasma cell DoT stacks with Incendiary and plasma grenade, that's lots of bleed dmg while you HiB, Assault plastique, full auto, HiB (proc allowing)... get in close during this, stockstike... back off again... top up the DoT's and repeat... goodbye imp! You can beat two at once if your dmg mitigation shield, cc and stims are utilized effectively... . assault plastique is way better than sticky grenade... the crit is awesome, combined with HiB and stockstike... not forgetting the two DoTs... you'll do more than enough dmg for most imps to start backing off or getting desperate and use their knockback (big deal) or their stun, work past that and you've won a 1 v 1 fight. i really do think you have to get in quite close with the class though, I cannot emphasize enough how important stockstrike is to most of my 1 v 1 victories... I think some people expect to kite other players to death using DoTs considering the way they talk about them, your crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ururururu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 OP is probably one of those trolls who's out to insulate Vanguards/Powertechs against nerfs. To be honest, I can't believe people are so bad at pvp that they can fail with a Vanguard. This class is really OP and that's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathoran Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 well i love assault specialist and im specced in it (as a bounty hunter pyro). It does great damage and i have alot of control in pvp with it. In PVE i often need to slow down because im taking aggro. It may not look like much but it deal a tremendous damage when you combine alot of stuff togetehr in the tree. I tried gunnery on my commando but was falling asleep from doing grav round. I know there is more to hit but usually you press it 70% of the time. It deal more instant damage but on the 10sec run, i can match it with AS build. You got the burn from the cells that is almost always up, the round that tick, 90% armor pen on HiB and if youre high enough the platic can give a huge burst. but i need to agree, its even more juicy as a vanguard compared to a commando, we get so much out of the first line on both the AS tree and tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanMartian Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) OP is probably one of those trolls who's out to insulate Vanguards/Powertechs against nerfs. To be honest, I can't believe people are so bad at pvp that they can fail with a Vanguard. This class is really OP and that's the truth. OP's a commando... And Assault Spec for commandos is okay... it's not great, it's not "OMG, you're failing at AS, you must be a baddy or a troll" and it's certainly more work than Gunnery. Now, for what incendiary round is, I think it's fine. It allows free use and synergy with all of AS' talents that require your enemy be on fire. If Bioware were to try and buff it so it felt more powerful, it would likely lead to them increasing it's ammo cost or giving it a cooldown so that using it had more tactical significance, and THAT would be another headache I don't need. Edited February 8, 2012 by MeanMartian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZym Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Sorry but you are completely and utterly wrong incineration round is immense full assault with the right spec is a machine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashien Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 We are one of the better classes but OP? I disagree, they have manage to offset our pvp tank spec with excellent survivability and sub par dps. While offsetting our pvp DPS spec with excellent DPS and sub par survivability. When you spec you are making definate decisions about survivability and dps, and those decisions definately reflect in how each spec plays. But then I am a vanguard, and love it so maybe it is OP and i am blinded by bias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZym Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I completely agree with the above i was playing gunnery for ages but all you do is just sit deal big damage but get hit by everyone elses. Im now assault and my experience is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figmentus Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Assault is amazing in 1v1. I've been jumped by melee while I'm below half health and they're full, and I absolutely wreck them. Spam hammer shot for the slow and stay between 5-10 meters, and warriors/knights cant charge or attack. Kite further than 10m for other melee. Use plastique/HIB every cooldown and keep incendiary on them, and fill the rest with hammer shot, which applies faster than they can cleanse, and you never have to stop moving. On ranged, instead of kiting, just throw plastique/HIB/incendiary out, and LOS, only popping out to refresh. Assault is great for dueling. Jedi melee is the toughest to fight, since their slow is long and strong. I can never get out of range of their melee. You get stuck in a pattern of spamming hammer shot to try and get the proc, instead of just doing your rotation. Plus the slow from sweltering heat is only 2 seconds. That's .5 sec longer than the GCD so you get one skill off before they are right back on you. yes IR is not meant to do damage but to proc your HIB, but too often I am stuck spamming charged bolts to try and get the HIB proc when FA doesn't. On a side note, in the second of my two "fresh 50" WZ, in the span of 3 deaths, I got 3 shot by a IA, crit'd a HIB bolt on a burning sorc for 900, and was attacking a low health agent and watched him get crit healed for 9833. I was sad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojahar Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Jedi melee is the toughest to fight, since their slow is long and strong. I can never get out of range of their melee. You get stuck in a pattern of spamming hammer shot to try and get the proc, instead of just doing your rotation. Plus the slow from sweltering heat is only 2 seconds. That's .5 sec longer than the GCD so you get one skill off before they are right back on you. yes IR is not meant to do damage but to proc your HIB, but too often I am stuck spamming charged bolts to try and get the HIB proc when FA doesn't. On a side note, in the second of my two "fresh 50" WZ, in the span of 3 deaths, I got 3 shot by a IA, crit'd a HIB bolt on a burning sorc for 900, and was attacking a low health agent and watched him get crit healed for 9833. I was sad... Sounds like the problem is you, not the spec, no offense. You need to learn to kite and cleanse. Sweltering Heat's slow is only 2 seconds long, but considering you should be spamming hammer shot, it should always be on, and last long enough for you to throw out HIB/plastique/incendiary as needed, even stockstriking if they do get close before using concussive charge. Don't just stand there trying to face tank melee and spamming charged bolts. AS is not Gunnery. Edited February 10, 2012 by Rojahar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutalcabbage Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 For a tree specific skill, at lvl 40, boltstered to 50 in the WZ,s....it does....300 damage on impact and get this....1063 over 18 seconds!!! BWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!! 18 seconds? Really? This is our grav round? Our tree sepcific skill? Excuse me while I ROLF o' copter! My God. No wonder no one plays this spec. It is pathetically weak. Incendiary....missspelled That's funny, since lvl 10 I have lead or come in the top 5 in total damage in EVERY WZ I have been in. I have just hit 21 with my lowbie 20 pvp gear and I just cracked 300k total damage 8 medals and 51 total kills with 15 killing blows. I have seen better but Pyrotech (incend missle procs rail shot a lot) Oh yeah I am the guy fighting on doors and turrets et and capping at the same time. I must be a beast.. oh wait! Yeah I am a beast! Babble-Fett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmratheAvenger Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Sorry i couldn't take reading 5 pages of you reply's op, i was to busy hitting my assault plastique 3k at the same time as my hib 3 crit from some nice 6k burst, maybe i will just hit for a 2k stock strike and reset hib again and hit a massive crit again. The spec isn't for you i guess. But i am loving it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmperorTeknoman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes 18 seconds of damage that allows every trooper in your group in pvp at 30 meters to fire a HIB at the same target is terrible... That would be sarcasm. The assault tree for Vanguards combined with a few points in Tactics allows you to hit like a truck, CC like no other, and retain the survival needed to live through things most of the other classes cannot. You are deadly at far, medium, and close range. If you think otherwise you are not playing the class correctly. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
va_wanderer Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes 18 seconds of damage that allows every trooper in your group in pvp at 30 meters to fire a HIB at the same target is terrible... That would be sarcasm. The assault tree for Vanguards combined with a few points in Tactics allows you to hit like a truck, CC like no other, and retain the survival needed to live through things most of the other classes cannot. You are deadly at far, medium, and close range. If you think otherwise you are not playing the class correctly. Have a nice day. That's also true- it literally lights up a target as far as other Troopers are concerned. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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