Shouldnt there be a big difference in new 50s and BM 50s?

[DariuszPol]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

My brother found solution for your problem.

1. Offensive advanced class - respec to a healer. As defensive - go full tank. No point attacking anyone who is above standard gear you have at lvl 50

2. Join warzone. Do useless healing from the start on everyone to get badges or as a tank try to hit people just ONCE when they have full health and try to live long enough to hit more people. This way if someone else kill that person you get badge for every XX kills. Same with healing.

3. If you are winnning (more BM on your team) then stay to the end. If not - leave. You are useless anyway.

4. Repeat every day until you get 3 wins for daily quest, gather champion gear or better so you be able to do something in WZ

 

Works for my brother. He run around in champion gear already. I'm planing to do the same in march after Legacy update (i will try game once more at that time).

 

And one more thing - if you see that match will be terminated in 120s, try to get ball in last seconds. Or throw it from one person to another just to keep it. If score is 0:0 or it's equal (1:1 etc) then whoever have the ball will win. Hint that my brother gave me.

 

It's kinda stupid when PVP is gear based. I would expect that in open pvp but not in places like warzone or future arenas.

[pieteral]

I think it has to find a balance between both.

Skilled players will have an advantage against none skilled players.

Geared players will have an advantage against none geared players.

 

A top skilled player that is not geared well (which is often not the case because skill comes as well with gameplay time) should be equally against a none skilled player that is well geared. The skill gap should exist but should not be so significant different.

People who think differently about that should not play SWTOR MMO but should play games specifically for pvp contest.

 

An MMO like STWOR is looking for massive players from all ages, types, classes. And I can assure you that the majority of subscribers (90% which you don't see on the forums) that will be playing SWTOR and paying for it will probably never get very skilled in PVP. They just want to have fun and killing other players is part of that fun (yes you will have even the one button pressing players .....). So taking that fun away by stating "only skill matter" is taking the most majority of your subscription base away is as well taking most of your opportunity to play away.

 

In MMO skill should get rewarded to some extend but at the end "playing over time rewarding" the core business of an MMO should get the most reward and this is still based on gear.

 

The best way an MMO can assure balanced PVP gameplay for majority of gamebase is by the way they assemble the groups and on that they still have full control. It is often all about perception, finding a balance between loosing and winning for an individual player that will make him enjoy the game.

Bioware has full control over who they put together in groups (excluding premades) and based on statistics they actually can control to some extend the side who will win or loose.

They might be even doing that already but it would be something they will not tell you.

 

Premades were one (not the only one) of the killers of Rift as well as the continuous balance/nerf rotations they made trying to give everybody a chance to own another. Premades felt good owning every battle whole day up to the day they did have nobody to play against anymore.

 

If SWTOR want to do something for the skilled, core pvp players then they should create its own environment for that like it exist in WOW were equally skilled players will play against equally skilled ones. I actually believe SWTOR is planning that as well.

One mistake I belief wow did here is to give then those skilled players again a gear advantage against the none skilled ones. That type of gameplay is for glory not for gear.

 

Gear is a system to reward time over play and should be available for everybody. Skill should never have a role in it.

 

That is my opinion .....

[Llann]

Geared premades aren't 'PvP'. They're some perverse form of internet bullying tolerated only because the MMO community has a ludicriously high pain threshold.

 

If you seriously aren't doing PvP for the skilled even matchups, I worry for you. =/

[Vecke]

I've always been intrigued by PVP, and I've always wanted to try it out. I don't, however, because my game time is very limited and I simply don't have time to build up the gear to be competitive. I know if I go try PVP, I'll basically serve as target practice for the players that have maxed out gear.

 

Since I don't have time to grind my way up the PVP gear ladder, I don't bother with it. I just stick to PVE with my wife.

 

I can't help but wonder how many other players out there feel the same way. They would like to PVP, and they think it could actually be fun, but they don't do it because you start at such an extreme disadvantage.

 

And then I wonder how robust PVP would be if that weren't the case.

 

p.s. if that's not the case, please let me know. I really am genuinely curious about trying the PVP in this game.

[Hokonoso]

So you want a more uneven playing field in which skill is less relevant?

 

glad the first reply said it all. OP is a ...

 

skill > everything, but without combat logs right now it goes gear > class > skill. i dream of a pvp game where any class can beat any other class 1 v 1 if the player behind the class has more skill than the other one, imo expertise should only increase dmg, the mitigation factor is silly, new 50s should be able to kill battlemasters but die super fast for not being able to hit as hard...

[RocNessMonster]

Once they add in personal rating equipment should work as a handicap. As in if you're highly rated your gear should actually do less for you. If your really awesome at pvp then you don't need expertise, your skill will carry you. To make later pvp armors (that do less for you) desirable, make the fresh 50 set make you look like a giant pink *****. Edited February 6, 2012 by RocNessMonster

[Yfelsung]

Geared premades aren't 'PvP'. They're some perverse form of internet bullying tolerated only because the MMO community has a ludicriously high pain threshold.

 

If you seriously aren't doing PvP for the skilled even matchups, I worry for you. =/

 

Geared premades are friends playing together.

 

Yes, I'd love to have rated Warzones so when we want to do full premade vs full premade, it's available, but sometimes 2 or 3 of us on vent just want to mess around for a match or two.

 

We play MMOs to play together and not necessarily for competition. It's for fun.

[Toweleeeie]

What they need to do instead is take all the gear away from the exploiters on Illum. Edited February 6, 2012 by Toweleeeie

[Edryk]

PvP gear isn't getting nerfed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2428381#edit2428381

 

Fair concerns... but nobody said anything about nerfs for PvP gear just yet.

 

There are many ways of achieving our intended goal, from stabilizing early gear acquisition through diminishing/removal of the random factor to the introduction of new gear over time... and a dozen other methods in-between.

 

To spell it out: We currently have no intention to modify the stats on existing PvP gear downwards (which I assume you mean by 'nerf'). Nobody has talked about eliminating the gap between old level 50s and new level 50s either.

 

Dev tracker is your friend. Feel better?

[rafter]

This thread is the perfect example of why PvP in MMO's is retarded.

 

If you think PvP is about gear, you're a noob. If you think MMO PvP should be about gear, don't bother telling anyone how PvE is easy mode and the real challenge is in PvP, because you've proven you don't care about challenge, you just want to roll newbies.

 

PvP should be based as much on skill as possible and as little on gear crutches as possible. Unfortunately, most people who claim to be PvP'ers are the gear crutch type. You know the kind, the ones who race to the end game and gear up before anyone else so they can destroy lower levels and people with inferior gear. These are the same people who whined when they made a 50 only bracket and we no longer able to farm the masses.

 

Hopefully Bioware doesn't cater to these people and decides that skilled competition is better than who can level and gear up the fastest.

[Vecke]

This thread is the perfect example of why PvP in MMO's is retarded.

 

If you think PvP is about gear, you're a noob. If you think MMO PvP should be about gear, don't bother telling anyone how PvE is easy mode and the real challenge is in PvP, because you've proven you don't care about challenge, you just want to roll newbies.

 

PvP should be based as much on skill as possible and as little on gear crutches as possible. Unfortunately, most people who claim to be PvP'ers are the gear crutch type. You know the kind, the ones who race to the end game and gear up before anyone else so they can destroy lower levels and people with inferior gear. These are the same people who whined when they made a 50 only bracket and we no longer able to farm the masses.

 

Hopefully Bioware doesn't cater to these people and decides that skilled competition is better than who can level and gear up the fastest.

 

The amount of people speaking out against gear-based PVP actually makes me feel pretty optimistic about TOR's PVP crowd. I might just have to give it a try sometime.

[NoxiousAlby]

As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

 

Been playing this game from release (5 days early) so I am almost valor 67 now. If someone started tomorrow and in 2 weeks made it to lvl 50 why should they have a CHANCE in hell against me besides maybe being a better player? I should be able to get huge crits and get hit for crap from him shouldnt I? He should need to work for his gear alittle bit IMO.

 

HOw much of a nerf are we talking when it comes to PVP gear. Should I just go to PVE full time? Is that gear going to be better for me now?

 

The same thing happed to Rift they nerfed PVP gear and how hard skills hit in PVP and the game died 3 weeks later.

 

I hope your taking a LONG look at this Bioware our on thin ICE.

 

 

Buff Juggs

 

Because skill > gear

[Vlacke]

This thread is the perfect example of why PvP in MMO's is retarded.

 

If you think PvP is about gear, you're a noob. If you think MMO PvP should be about gear, don't bother telling anyone how PvE is easy mode and the real challenge is in PvP, because you've proven you don't care about challenge, you just want to roll newbies.

 

PvP should be based as much on skill as possible and as little on gear crutches as possible. Unfortunately, most people who claim to be PvP'ers are the gear crutch type. You know the kind, the ones who race to the end game and gear up before anyone else so they can destroy lower levels and people with inferior gear. These are the same people who whined when they made a 50 only bracket and we no longer able to farm the masses.

 

Hopefully Bioware doesn't cater to these people and decides that skilled competition is better than who can level and gear up the fastest.

 

QFT mate.

Spot on.

[Yfelsung]

I think having some PvP gear progression is nice, it gives you something to aim for.

 

But I think the difference that gear makes in a fight should be 5% or less.

 

Some would argue 0%, and I see their arguments, but I think gear progression does add something to the game that would be absent without it.

 

The odds of a 5% gear difference being the deciding factor in a fight are slim, odds are one of the two people fighting is more than 5% better than the other in terms of skill.

[Valfodr]

What about titles, recognition? The joy of beating your opponents? Why is gear the reason people fight players, and not monsters?

 

Because PvP gear is actually too good period. There's a reason PvE'ers even try to get it. I agree, I never understood why gear was the carrot on a stick. I'd prefer titles/mounts/aesthetic bonuses, personally. I'd work on PvP as a sniper if it got me the, "Sharpshooter" title, or "Purple Heart" on my Jugg. New 50's are discouraged from PvPing now, but whatever.

 

Let's be honest, the PvE aspect is the biggest in most MMO's, and they'll fix that first. (Which they should)

 

Side note: Who here is hoping for 2 different specs dedicated solely as your PvP/PvE spec? Not dual spec, but basically an entirely different tree meant for PvP that swaps in when you enter a WZ or Ilum. No more PvP and PvE messing with one another!

[dadamowsky]

Side note: Who here is hoping for 2 different specs dedicated solely as your PvP/PvE spec? Not dual spec, but basically an entirely different tree meant for PvP that swaps in when you enter a WZ or Ilum. No more PvP and PvE messing with one another!

 

Ahh... my great unfulfilled dream

[PibbyPib]

The difference is way too high-- especially considering the exploiting that went on.

 

I've never understood why PvP gear should give you an actual statistical advantage in PvP. You've already done hundreds of matches to get it-- that alone is a massive edge over the average player. It's like if Lance Armstrong was going to join your local bike rice, and so to show their appreciation, the town let him ride a motorcycle.

 

The OP here is pretty much admitting that he's the biggest "carebear" of them all, as he actually wants a hutch stat advantage over his opponents so he can farm them.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PibbyPib

[mrbiggggy]

there is a big difference

 

approx. 7-8k health and not to mention expertise bonuses

[Arutassin]

Anyone who feels progression is a valid reason for people to want new gear for PvP needs to realise they are playing the wrong side of the game. Progression is the PvE side.

 

In PvE you have to progress different gear sets to take on harder tiers of content. In this new content your gear is balanced against the harder NPC's. The fun achieved here is the playing of the game and th clearing of the content. The gear only serves to allow you to play more instances with mates. The getting of the gear is not the reward that gives you satisfaction, this comes from clearing the content. the gear is a progressive thing you achieve which allows you to take on more, harder content. To enjoy the process of clearing it.

 

In PvP you play against a player that is different each time. This is not an area for progression based on gear as it is not needed to balance against a new tier of player. If all players have access to the same tier it is balanced. The reward in PvP is outskilling your opponent. To gain victory. The fun of playing and winning.

 

Any player that plays a game to feel good about an in game reward is playing for the wrong reasons. These players don't like new content and raises to level cap as they see it as making their gear worthless.

 

Players who realise the fun of playing the game is not the rewards from gear drops, its the actual playing and defeating content, tend to look forward to expansions etc due to the fact it means more bosses etc to kill.

 

Progression = PvE

Skilled combat = PvP

Edited February 6, 2012 by Arutassin

[Wolfeisberg]

PvP should be about getting titles, and if they create appearance tab they should get appearance gear that makes them stand out. During a match, everyone should be equal in stats, it should be about skill. In PvE, it is ok to have gear disparity, because it acts as a gating system for the end game, but for PvP there should never be a gear disparity.

[ForceCowboy]

I have a full set of Champion gear on Kymber (Minus a relic which mysteriously morphed into a PVE relic after the last patch) and I can honestly say that PVP gear is broken.

 

The advantage isn't slight, it's huge. When I run into an Imp that I can tell just reached 50, I totally cream him. It doesn't even matter what class he is. Having an almost 12% damage buff against players, plus a 12% damage reduction from players is huge.

 

I honestly don't think this is right. I think that PVP should be a skill based game not a gear based grind. PVP should be a dynamic battle of shifting resource control, not another gear grind. Am I going to do what is necessary to stay competitive against the Imps on my server? Yes. Do I think that I should have to grind gear to be competitive against other players? No.

 

PVE = Gear Grind.

 

PVP = Shifting Territorial/Resource Control.

[dadamowsky]

To bring more flavour to the topic (sesesesese )

 

Let's make TOR PvP Ultima Online's style, where ALL gear may be looted from the dead player's body. Wondering how many gear-based PvPers would agree with such solution. Btw we may check how viable are their arguments that "gear must be the reward"

Edited February 6, 2012 by dadamowsky

[thorizdin]

I couldn't disagree more and I've been PvPing since day 1. Player skill & teamwork should be the most important determining factor in PvP. Gear differences should be minimal. I'd personally prefer cooler looking sets for BM rather than "I win" stats.

 

To the OP, if you've gone to rank 67 then you really ought to be a good PvP'er. If you're not then you deserve to get your *** kicked after spending all that time.

[mangarrage]

You are absolutely right they did 2 things just like Rift (which btw you should never model anything after cause the game went from great to bad to horrible to dead in the course of 6 months because the devs couldnt just leave stuff alone

 

anyway the 2 things were pvp gear bis for pve and welfare gear for pvp

 

With that being said the OP i believe to be 100% correct but I am certainly one for no pvp bonuses at all.

 

But yea molding pvp after Rift is a huge error because it pissed off both pve players and pvp players and they are in essence doing the same thing

 

However at the same time the game isnt a sole pvp game more players levelled other then pvp for example my one charcter is valor 20 at 50

There should be somethign to bridge the gap, but welfare epics isnt the way to go

[jmdatcs]

I like the fact that I got the crap beat out of me constantly when I first hit 50 because everyone was geared better. It makes it that much sweeter that I'm starting to be the one handing out the beatings (and I don't even have a full set of the mid level gear, and no low level yet).

 

Take your lumps like everyone else did, you'll be a better player and a better team member. When you can't kill anyone 1 on 1 you start looking for the good targets. Finishing off someone that is low, helping others kill, etc. makes you more focused on teamwork even if you don't realize it.

 

Wax on wax off, it will pay off in the end.