Smash/Sweep 's 1 SECOND delayed animation despite being INSTANT.&Mara feeling rushed!

[Sir-Coffee]

Just prove my second point on Luciela's MMO-Champ thread, he shows bits of aoe, when he does get 7K crit by stacking all those buffs is against fresh ungeared light armor people (usually those that aren't in his focus, IE a sorc or assa in his back if you look closely)

 

He uses other things too though. I popped every CD and I only get a 5600k+ crit(never over 6k) on undergeared light armors.

 

I'd love to know what those other things are. I checked out his buffs, and I believe he uses a relic that greatly increases his damage output. Idk though.

[exphryl]

Have a higher damage AOE.

 

I'm for it.

 

Lose your Immunity Shield Though.

 

Or you want the best of everything?

[Barrechor]

He uses other things too though. I popped every CD and I only get a 5600k+ crit(never over 6k) on undergeared light armors.

 

I'd love to know what those other things are. I checked out his buffs, and I believe he uses a relic that greatly increases his damage output. Idk though.

 

To get those numbers you would need an absolutely top end power relic, a rakata str stim, a rakata power adrenal and a pvp expertise buff. I'm unsure as to the following but do the Expertise consumables stack with the in game pickup buffs? IF they indeed do, then thats the only way he could reach those numbers, even against fresh lv50s who decided to walk into level 50 pvp wearing lv44 mods (Theres a lot of em).

[Eltohan]

He uses other things too though. I popped every CD and I only get a 5600k+ crit(never over 6k) on undergeared light armors.

 

I'd love to know what those other things are. I checked out his buffs, and I believe he uses a relic that greatly increases his damage output. Idk though.

Yeah maybe a PVE relic...

 

Anyway, I know that Jugg/Gardians can indeed crit harder with the same setup than Mara/Sent ^^ I was trying to determine this on the MMO-Champ thread, and nobody noticed the discrepency between those two AC, despite using a so-called identical common skill tree

 

Will see in time if BW do anything about this though. I'll be glad if they just make Smash actually instant (or Sorcs knockbacks for example).

 

It's more like watching people dance around and blindly trying to figure your opponent's next approach moreso than skill and quick reaction time.

 

Well yes I can obliterate mouseclicking, keyboardturning Sent/Mara, as this class is the hardest to play like this (well anyway, Merc/Sorc can play like this though ) , but what's the point of fireing up an ability on your keybing and waiting ONE FULL SECOND before you can breath and say "YATA ! I did it without trouble !"

[AndantePhist]

Just proved my point. Luciela is a Gardian (Jugg) thus getting a free 30% overall damage boost to Smash in his Vengeance tree. Mara/Sents get to dual wield (what a joke) thus max 5K5 damage.

 

Juggs/Gards can crit upto 7K2. Mara/Sent can't.

 

Juggs/Gards are CC-Knockbacks immune after a Force Charge/Obliterate. We aren't.

 

Juggs/Gards can push people 50 meters away. We can't.

 

Juggs/Gards wear heavy armor. We wear stupid medium armor (refer to why it's stupid for us not to wear heavy armor as well, being that there are only those two AC to wear STR gear... Wait there is neraly none of that gear except T1-T2-T3 anyway)

 

Like I said, stop spreading lies.

 

And like I said, MAra/Sent is a rushed designed class. Overall, Juggs/Gards are superior.

 

EDIT:

If you wore your glasses grandpa, he does indeed have a healer on his back at all time

 

Lol I never knew Guardians/Juggs get to spec 31/31/31, when did this happen?

 

CC-Knockback immune talent after force leap can only be taken if you forgo your 31 point focus/rage talent... and no one does that because that would be stupid.

 

Stop being so ignorant.

[Eltohan]

Have a higher damage AOE.

 

I'm for it.

 

Lose your Immunity Shield Though.

 

Or you want the best of everything?

Immunity shield ? The 5 sec 99% reducing damage ability ? Is it hard to notice the buff on your opponent or your abilities doing 2-3-4 damage ?

 

Anyway, even our lolbonus sets as Mara/Sent are focused on this (our lol survivability outside of our long CDs) ...

 

I'd like better survivability without having to manage 24 binds at any moment, any day of the week. Overall yeah, I should have rolled a Jugg. The "preview" of the SWTOR holonet website was pretty misleading (and still is)

[Idockdudes]

Just proved my point. Luciela is a Gardian (Jugg) thus getting a free 30% overall damage boost to Smash in his Vengeance tree. Mara/Sents get to dual wield (what a joke) thus max 5K5 damage.

 

Juggs/Gards can crit upto 7K2. Mara/Sent can't.

 

Juggs/Gards are CC-Knockbacks immune after a Force Charge/Obliterate. We aren't.

 

Juggs/Gards can push people 50 meters away. We can't.

 

Juggs/Gards wear heavy armor. We wear stupid medium armor (refer to why it's stupid for us not to wear heavy armor as well, being that there are only those two AC to wear STR gear... Wait there is neraly none of that gear except T1-T2-T3 anyway)

 

Like I said, stop spreading lies.

 

And like I said, MAra/Sent is a rushed designed class. Overall, Juggs/Gards are superior.

 

EDIT:

If you wore your glasses grandpa, he does indeed have a healer on his back at all time

 

The only get unstoppable after force charge/force leap not obliterate/zealous leap. The talent isnt even in the focus/rage tree though, so its kind of a moot point in a debate about who has a better force sweep/smash spec.

 

Juxtaposed both classes have advantages over the other class, Im not going to list them all here. Both classes are good and while I think you have an argument that sweep/smash need to be fixed, you dont have an argument that the marauder is a bad class.

[Eltohan]

I'm unsure as to the following but do the Expertise consumables stack with the in game pickup buffs?

 

I know that trying to get two ingame expertise pickup buffs doesn't stack at all (only one buff and not more expertise granted than if you had only one)

 

I have yet to try stacking expertise self consumable buff AND one pickup for 30% (638*1.30 would equal in +191 expertise instead of +95... thus 830 in the end for me)

 

But I fail to understand why 15% expertise buff consumable would be more worthy than the rakata power adrenal as those two are on the same shared 3min CD

 

[Kellindell]

The getting knocked back thing is so annoying, I cant even begin to explain the aggravation of activating a force sweep, getting knocked back and watching myself do it mid air.

 

Whats even more annoying is, you cant charge in mid air to get back to the fray right away. and if you do charge mid air, you waist the charge but dont move.

 

I actually never realized how much more powerful a Guard/Jug focus build is is compared to a Sent Maurader. Its kind of messed up since the tree is supposed to be "shared" but its obviously lop sided for what AC.

 

What they need to do is make force sweep attack with both lightsabers if you are a sent/maurader. This should even it out.

 

We have two lightsabers, but I just feel like we dont use it enough in our key skills (especially the shared tree) to justify the loss of survivability a guardian gets.

[Eltohan]

 

Whats even more annoying is, you cant charge in mid air to get back to the fray right away. and if you do charge mid air, you waist the charge but dont move.

 

SO TRUE ! Happened to me twice today... Tried charging someone in mid air, too bad, Force Charge on CD but nothin happens

 

EDIT: as for the dual lightsaber thingie, it's a trap

 

Juggs/Gards get +6% melee damage overall by using a single lightsaber (lolwut), seems more powerfull overall than having a +50 base damage on abilities (not even sure we get 50 more base damage thanks to our off hand really)

 

Marauder does feel badly rushed design wise.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Eltohan

[mufutiz]

this is true for many other abilities as well, pivotal abilities even like scoundrels back blast.

 

combat in this game is just clunky and unresponsive, get used to it.

[wtfnonamefree]

ORLY? maybe you should get your facts right before you spread your dumbarsed misinformation !

 

This is your proof and hes fighting without healer and without a chest... nuff said again?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BwLo3st0rqg

 

He's (She's?) got both a chest piece (that social skank wear) and a pocket healer (see comments). The sick damage stems from being at exp soft cap with columi/rakata hitting on fresh 50s.

 

"Nuff said".

Edited February 5, 2012 by wtfnonamefree

[izayoinotsuki]

Heh, Marauders/Sentinels have 2 dedicated dps-trees and still they want to use the shared one?!

 

Are the other two really that bad? I mean, because the dedicated dps-tree for Juggernauts is completely worthless for PvP, so we're pretty much forced to play Rage/Focus.

[Eltohan]

Heh, Marauders/Sentinels have 2 dedicated dps-trees and still they want to use the shared one?!

 

Are the other two really that bad? I mean, because the dedicated dps-tree for Juggernauts is completely worthless for PvP, so we're pretty much forced to play Rage/Focus.

Anihilation (bleed dots) is good for 1V1 and static fights (IE: PVE Raid bosses)

 

Carnage is not bad, but I don't like it (again, only good at pure one on one), too rng dependant for good burst anyway you can't really plan it AFAICT

 

Fact is, Rage/focus is the best at pvp simply because of mobility and reduced cooldowns.

[Eltohan]

Bumping this like a warrior getting bumped right before landing his smash.

And to bed I go now...

[Powerr]

mauraders/sentinels are the best class in this game and you are a haggard QQ'r, its obvious

[Kalantris]

Dude, there are countless abilities described as "Instant", which are not. The AoE knockback on sage? Instant. Is it? No. Project. Instant. Is it? No. The ranged force attack on sentinel (I didn't learn the names yet, lol). Instant. Is it? Try using it against an opponent cloaking. Does no damage if the enemy cloaks when it's mid air.

 

Ofcourse the imps have way less problems, at least as far as Project and the ranged attack on sentinel are concerned. Why? Because even though Jedi are so far different from the sith nobody in Bioware is competent enough to create professions, that are not the same and balance them. It's good they didn't even try, but they had to come up with reasonable animations for both sides and since they're not competent enough to know, that a 0,8s difference (or a 1,8s difference on Project) is years when it comes to PvP, they came up with that. Which is s***.

 

There ya go. Will it be fixed? Probably. When? Assuming they start after they finish their grand patch, which should go live in march, they should be done around june. That's assuming someone actually manages to get through to the devs with the message, that instant skills should be instant regardless of the animation or effects should be queued depending on whoever smashed their button first.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

[Kitsummerisle]

I feel for ya OP, if I run up to someone and press my Neural Surge(AoE Knockback) and they use there knock back as I pressed the skill. My guy will fly backwards land and then proceed to cast the ability when no ones around. Instead of canceling my ability, it just forces me to waste and very inportant skill.

[JackMinn]

Meh I actually dont use focus spec for this sole reason.

 

Firstly you encounter good players in competitive matches. Competitive matches are the only times it really matters. In these matches the players know how to deal with it and will activate knockbacks after they see you stack singularity and they are in a ball.

 

Secondly videos of lecuila etc are as many say montages. If a full warzone was recorded you would see the amount of times one is made to look like a clown because they lost their window of sweep opportunity due to circumstances out of their hand.

 

Finally, the knockback bug just pisses the crap out of me. I may deal a tad bit more damage in focus spec than vigilance but I am not prepared to deal that extra while having to get mad everytime it bugs out. This bug is actually very aggravating and that is reason enough for me to avoid it.

[tsupra]

I cant agree more ,would like to see all these abilities deleted and replaced!

 

Highlight is mortal volley for troopers,(3 sec channel in description)an ability that has a hidden 1,5 sec cast (followed by 1,5 channel)while the animation of the ability is visible to the enemy right at start

[Daex]

+1 for Smash/Sweep.

 

I know it appears like "skilled" to interrupt it by knockback but realistically people just knockback for whatever reason and interrupt this ability so often that it's crazy. Something needs to be done about this... Personally I'd prefer spell hitting the people once i press the button, however wouldn't complain if it was truly interrupted and didn't go on cooldown or use the charges.

[Idockdudes]

Dude, there are countless abilities described as "Instant", which are not. The AoE knockback on sage? Instant. Is it? No. Project. Instant. Is it? No. The ranged force attack on sentinel (I didn't learn the names yet, lol). Instant. Is it? Try using it against an opponent cloaking. Does no damage if the enemy cloaks when it's mid air.

 

Ofcourse the imps have way less problems, at least as far as Project and the ranged attack on sentinel are concerned. Why? Because even though Jedi are so far different from the sith nobody in Bioware is competent enough to create professions, that are not the same and balance them. It's good they didn't even try, but they had to come up with reasonable animations for both sides and since they're not competent enough to know, that a 0,8s difference (or a 1,8s difference on Project) is years when it comes to PvP, they came up with that. Which is s***.

 

There ya go. Will it be fixed? Probably. When? Assuming they start after they finish their grand patch, which should go live in march, they should be done around june. That's assuming someone actually manages to get through to the devs with the message, that instant skills should be instant regardless of the animation or effects should be queued depending on whoever smashed their button first.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

 

You arent really comparing the same things, or at least what you desribed isnt really the worst thing about sweep. What you are desribing is animation time, delayed damage or travel time.

 

If the only thing you had to deal with when using sweep/smash, was animation time or delayed damage it wouldnt be a big deal, the OP doesnt really know what they are talking about. The more frustraiting thing is ability stagger and missing even though you are right on top of someone.

 

Delayed animation could actually be acounted for if it was all you had to deal with. Its when I have to click the button multiple times for it finally go off and when it does finally go off I am flying back from a Knockback, even though I havent pressed the button for a second or two, that I get upset.

 

If someone is just good enough to anticipate a sweep and perform a KB at the perfect time, I would have no complaint.

 

Project and the Sorc mirror not being the same is a legitamite complaint. Its just not the same issue.

[Oisse]

I play a Marauder on Helm Of Graush, 2/8/31 spec, and I have little issues hitting 5k damage on someone, but only if I pop my adrenal / relic. Otherwise unless they are under geared it doesn't happen much due to Sorc's / Sage's always having a constant shield. Not saying it doesn't happen at all, it does but not often. Under geared players I've hit for 6.5k.

 

Back on subject though.

 

I hate being pushed back as soon as I hit my smash ><

[Eltohan]

I play a Marauder on Helm Of Graush, 2/8/31 spec, and I have little issues hitting 5k damage on someone, but only if I pop my adrenal / relic. Otherwise unless they are under geared it doesn't happen much due to Sorc's / Sage's always having a constant shield. Not saying it doesn't happen at all, it does but not often. Under geared players I've hit for 6.5k.

 

Back on subject though.

 

I hate being pushed back as soon as I hit my smash ><

Huh 6K5 in marauder's Rage spec ? We'll have to get in touch then

 

 

Anyway, I'm really considering to play Carnage now, even if I hate the RNG of it, the Force Scream can't be knockbacked like Smash at least.

 

A word from a yellow poster on this whole issue would be cool though.

 

EDIT: I know a pretty good Mara on my serv and he plays Carnage, I thought that spec was gimped when I played it until lv35-40, but meh, can't be worst than Anihilation. Plus I like Force Scream and the increase runspeed. I know he does same total damage as me in the end of warzones, and doesn't have to pray for a Smash to hit. Plus Force Scream is so much easier to get past 5K crit

 

Let's try it.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Eltohan

[RobyBaggio]

Every now and again, and I mean, every now and again, I don't hit my Smash. Most of those times it's due to been impatient.

 

That's the way the class is. Marauder if things aren't going your way can be very frustrating. If I can't get close enough do enough melee than it can be a long game. So when opportunity comes you want do starting hitting that smash asap - but that is the wrong tactic.

 

If you can, wait till there is more than one person. Very simple, Smash = the more the merrier.

 

Ever use Intimidating Roar? I notice that there are a lot of warriors that forget to use it because of the long CD. And then they only use it to makeup for their bad play and get out of trouble. Well it's perfect for right after your shockwave. You run in a crowd of 3 or more people, look like an idiot about to get pwnd, only to put them all the ground and critting them with Smash. Now I don't remember how long Shockwave lasts, but I'm usually looking to spread the proc love when I built it up. I only use it on one opponent if I feel I'm on top and about to get a kill.

 

If you are using Rage spec I assume you have Force Crush. Timing here is key, but also positioning. If you think it's just simple get my tics and here comes the Smash then you have it wrong. First of all given that your a melee class you should be always getting behind your opponent. Spacebar is your best friend on a side not. When you cast Force Crush you start running past them. As you should know by now, good players tend to keep 5-10m distance and try and kite you Mr Marauder. So spacebarring, running past them, and constantly behind them should always be on your menu - just because you can. Unlike other classes, LOS is not a high problem. So you should be using it to your advantage.

 

So it's simple after Force Crush you should be timing your Smash right when they are about to crawl. Even if you get knocked back, you still have Obliterate which gives you extra speed, and Predation should be on most of the time as well and if those things aren't on you still have Force Cloak for speed. And IF ALL THAT can't be used, if they are closing the gap again you get closer, if they are moving away you walk backwards and use Charge again. So you see, there are 4 abilities that counter a knockback to time your Smash after Shockwave.

 

Of course their knockback has a cooldown too so it's not always available, so most times you should be fine and in range.

 

Certainly took me a while to start play Marauder properly, and I still think I'm far from having mastered the class, and that is after yesterday doing nearly 400k dmg on Alderaan, and in an other game I went 37 and 0. And it's also the reason why I haven't respeced yet.

My survivability can be a problematic with Rage, and I see Annhilation specs doing 75k Healing in Warzones constatly. I'm lucky to get 10k helaing a game and I sit and wonder if I should try and respec. But since I have learned more how to play I use all my abilities, all the time, and survive a lot longer.

 

When your in a Warzone you cannot respec. So what else can you do but try new tactics, at least try something. I find that 9 times out of 10 I find an answer to my problem. But of course if I go in there kamikaze with dual sabers thinking I'm just here to use a few abilites and just do damage that's when the trouble starts. My suggestion would be: relax, enjoy the game, and take a deep breath before you start raging (no pun intended).

Edited February 6, 2012 by RobyBaggio