I didnt change my BM mods so im sitting at only 700 expertise when I could be at 1100. Im playing vigilance when I could be playing focus on my guardian. I can drop a healer in 4.5-6 seconds. Games broke.

So they did us a favor by not including the patch? By your logic, Bioware do us a favor everyday by not releasing instakill skills, or just randomly deleting half the content, cause you know its in their power to do so but they dont, so clearly is a favor. Owait... They dont deliver on time they lost subs. You make it sound like the only options we had was either get broken warzones or get no warzones. Wrong. The other option is to unsub. Much as if I am late to hand in a research paper I fail, I dont get an "extension" in university. Im sure the grown ups in bioware are fully aware about what deadlines mean, and if they cant meet them then people leave. Its fairly simple. Not all of us are fanboy enough to stick around with the game if they cant deliver on promises. If the patch wasnt ready to be released then that IS their fault for not being ready in time. Delaying it doesnt amend the issue, much like asking my university professor for extra time on my paper wouldnt amend the issue. Whats done is done, and for that you can expect the game to lose even more subs. Its all fairly simple logic.

I didnt even have a piece of BM gear at the time (just the title) and I tore through people. I guess people are simply at different opinions about different specs although from my perspective the Vengeance/Vigilance spec is awesome and I kill as fast as rage/focus while doing it more frequently + its more fun to play and wins hutball. Though this opinion will obviously vary to those of others.

5v5 is the medium used for literally all competitive gaming. WoW is hardly the pinnacle of competitive gaming to back the 3v3 argument up.

Yea by speculation I meant more speculation to the date of the screenshot not how it was achieved. But I figured to highlight this fact I could use a better quote, hence the change.

Well you figured it out yourself but just to add to it, the guy earned 3k valor in the wz, so its clearly something recent.

Well the fights are close and fun to watch but as a pvper I cringe when I realize the only reason it was close was because people who have grinded 80 valor ranks still forget to click a medpack. Close fights are cool but when people realize they are artificially close it loses the beauty.

Well then it is indeed a bit worrying that the "best" pvpers forgot to medpack dont you think? Im not questioning their skill, they all seemed like good players, and they have the titles to indicate their experience. But forgetting to medpack is just retarded and is extremely poor play on their part, im just calling it how I see it.

Then it should be clear before hand, if that conqueror shadow had used a medpack he would have won both times hands down. Not to mention the medpack only serves to exaggerate class imbalance when you consider things such as the sentinel 99% damage reduc but thats another issue altogether.

A nice watch however lets be honest about it, you used a medpack in every single duel against repubs while very few used a medpack vs you. In fact im doubting that you had pointed that fact out to them. Considering you won most of the fights with only 5-10% vs good players im fairly certain over 50% of the duels would have been a loss should any of them have medpacked. So was fun to watch, but you wont get my respect for cheating in consented duels. And before you bother sounding smart, yes I did take the time to watch the buff icons, none of those war hero scoundrels or conqueror shadow used a med pack. The proof is in the video.

They could and did, and then those posts were over ruled with generic claims of "jack of all trades master of none". At this point it is one persons word over another, either they excel at all aspects or are mediocre. The people who play shadow/assassin as their main say they are mediocre and the people who see it from outside claim they excel at all. No resolution will come out of this thread because a general population of players are not fit to discuss balance together anyways. The rated warzones will speak for themselves on release. Especially when everybody suddenly notices that the best viable dps will be any tank with dps due to their flexibility and utility. The only non tank dps that will survive the presence of rated games will be sentinel/marauder. Once people notice this paradigm the whine will simply be revived.

Aww are all the threads getting you upset?

The change is blatantly a nerf, whether the nerf is justified or not is another issue however wasnt the debate at hand. To highlight why this is a nerf: Ball carriers at full CC cannot be lept to to prevent them from moving, as roots do not consider the resolve bar but stuns do. Thus we can not hinder the movement of a ball carrier. Leap force push was common on either a ball carrier or on a player to push them to where you want to leap. Now with the leap filling resolve its quite possible that once the leap is carried out the push will be prevented by the resolve bar. The generic combo of leap --> stasis ---> push ---> leap will not work as I believe the leap stun and stasis stun will be enough to fill the resolve negating the push. Now if the leap still roots and interrupts along with stunning then this nerf is minute as it can be adjusted to. The amount of situations that the leap will be a hinderance will be minimal, however its in those few clutch moments that a close hutball match is won or lost. However I can live with losing the full control of CC application I had. So long as the leap still roots and interrupts regardless of the stun.

Yea and that is the final statement people respond with when they realize this. Except they are good at doing everything not that "they arent good at anything particular". Proving either or is a bit hard to do but people already posted the Screenshots of high damage, high protection and high survivability so they clearly have those going for them. All that remains is debating utility which is what I am presenting in my argument. Its not that they have everything mediocore, they have everything awesome. Get over it.

MY GOD. Everybody KEEPS missing the point. - Stealth? but operatives can do it. - High damage? but vanguards can do it with aoe(assassins can match in ST which is even stronger). - Sprint? but guardians have leap. - CC? But everybody has it why cant i have the most - Self heal? but dps sages/sorcs have it. YES if we compare everything to every other class than everybody else has some of it yes. But the point is the Assassins have it ALL. If you dont see this as a problem especially in ranked play where the top will consist of good players able to fully utilize all these aspects, then you are just blind to how game balance actually works.

Why is it not possible? 1 or more persons cap a node untill ~6 seconds in then you either single hit or use aoe kb based on the situation, now they need to spend 7+ seconds capping again. 7+6 is 13 seconds and that assumes the bear minimum time. Just cause you arent able to envision stalling with respect to the objective doesnt mean it aint possible. 13s is generally enough for the voidstar doors to open again allowing your entire team to return. Yes you can blindly CC and hope to hit the player in stealth, but relying on a random factor is hardly relevant discussion for game balance is it? In fact the very option of stealth forces 1 player in a voidstar to always have to defend a door which will serve as a large factor in actual ranked play when 1 man down actually matters. Even if the stealth isnt in combat, its a very strong utility tool which seperates it from the other classes. When you combine this with the other utility, then also say thats its okay to deal "that damage" because others can, you are simply getting the best tools that every other class had at its disposal.

That wasnt even remotely what I said. Do you even read?

Huh? I missed the part where ANY class in this game can stall 6 players of equal gear for 13 seconds while also being immune to CC thus interrupting the objective cap. (Cant CC a assassin in stealth waiting to interrupt). Also even if cooldowns could allow for this, which they cant, cool downs arent as readily available as stealth is. In fact if you wiped and need to stop objective cap its more than likely you already used your cool downs attempting to survive.

No other tank can stealth and completely stall an entire team for 13+ seconds.

Alright and I am trying to make a point of what you are saying. The very fact that numbers do not portray the whole picture is what makes the assassin/shadow OP. There are only 2 classes in this game that can utilize stealth to play for objectives, one is the operative the other is the assassin. The functionality of stealth is quite substantial when you consider how objectives work. Stealth alone is capable of preventing a cap in voidstar long enough for the doors to open for your team and all your mates to come out. Similarly stealth is capable of stalling a node in alderaan long enough for help to come. The purpose of stealth is quite substantial and every single team in rated game play will need one. Its not even worth disputing that in the current state operatives dont compete with assassins with regards to mdps filling out the stealth requirement. In fact in their current state, the best rated set ups would include multiple assassins. Not only is stealth such a high utility and practically neccessary for any form of objective gameplay, the assassin is then given the combat sprint. On top of this they are able to have a force resist skill which allows immunity to certain types of CC at crutch moments "force choke and force push to name a few". This is all ofc coupled with high utility of stuns, knock down + damage buff for allies and slows. Now all this utility if also paired with the high damage numbers you see in what is described as a tank spec. So to boot, these assassins are difficult to kill as well. Along with providing self heal during clutch moments. If people are failing to see how giving EVERY TOOL in the game to ONE class is a bit OP I dont know what to say. But atm the assassin/shadow is the jack of all trades, and it can literally do every single thing as good as the best class in that field. In fact if I could have my perfect rated team I would have minimum 3+ assassins in them for this sole reason. Id never lose a single objective in either of the warzones + they compete with the damage, protection and heals of every other profession.

Even if they could do it consistently they do not posses the sheer utility the shadow brings to the table. Again something that warzones dont portray. Take that into account ok?

Ah so at first your argument began with "we who oppose the nerf have provided substantial evidence in the form of words and misguided opinions, while you who claim the assassins are OP have no proof". Now we give you proof and yet you dismiss it and fall short handed when you now hold the burden of proof. Though I can completley assure you. It is 100% impossible for a guardian to get anywhere near the vicinity of 750k damage in a single target spec. In fact the only viable single target spec demands the guardian to be in a dps stance thus stripping it of its defense. The aoe spec serves as a gimmick and lacks the utility that guardians need to play for objectives + is getting nerfed already. As for vanguards, I missed the part where they had in combat stealth and self heals. Heh, its going to be a bit harder now to talk your way out of this one. But I suppose you will simply shrug it off and say "But... but... " while not saying anything substantial.

And this right here is where you lost all credibility. You can clearly see in all screenshots the stance in which the assassin plays; Dark Charge. Since you are clearly so misinformed about the mirror of the very class you are playing, that is the tank stance; http://knotor.com/abilities/188181. Heck you can even see guard toggled on in half of the screenshots. Then ofc the best argument left "but they were noobs so doesnt count". That argument may be valid if only one screenshot was provided but wow, this guy has got a whole album of them. Unless everybody on the entire server is a noob the argument aint going to work. Between your lack of knowledge and then the typical noob claim, I dont think anything more you post will have any particular credit to it.

Hahahaha I didnt expect to see that one coming. Though thats impressive. Consistent 700k+ damage near 100k protection + 70k+ self healing. And ofc this class has stealth + speed boost which makes it the best objective based profession in the game. Nah I think we still need some more evidence.

As one of the first BM Guardians on my server who got there using the focus spec I found it quite gimmicky and too rewarding. Granted I dont see them as highly influencial characters and in rated warzones focus guardians shouldnt see much play as good teams dont clump up and know how to time kbs. In essence the difference here is, the 1 mill damage was just some AoE damage onto balled pugs. Whereas the issue with the Shadow/Assassin lies in high utility and versatility which is much needed in rated games. Yes I know I tried to use numbers to prove an argument but the numbers need to be put within context. If you look at the screen shot I posted: http://i.imgur.com/kmpzS.jpg The assassin had only 1 death while all others had 6+ with the average being 8-9. That assassin single handedly won the match through the use of stealth and self heal, as well as presenting themselves as the highest damage threat.