1.1.2 PvP bag changes.

[Budizzle]

Georg, you are right that we want the RNG element removed/lowered but the problem with what you're saying is that Champion bags give Centurion commendations not Champion commendations. So yes, we can get an item of our choice but not the Champion item of our choice. The Centurion gear is not even really an upgrade over crafted blues with the exception of a rather small amount of expertise it gives. In fact, I have forgone replacing my last two slots of non-pvp gear with Centurion items because the amount of willpower I would lose isn't worth 28 or 29 expertise.

 

The big problem with the change you're suggesting is that there's lots of people that already have valor rank 60 and/or a lot of the Champion set. Now anybody starting the game new or starting level 50 pvp on a new character is going to be behind the power curve for a longer amount of time.

 

If you make Champion bags give Champion commendations and Battlemaster bags give Battlemaster commendations then I am fine with this change and would even applaud it. That's not the case right now though. Of course, then you'd have to figure out a new way to give out Centurion tokens but that's a smaller issue because as I said, the Centurion gear is not desirable anyway.

 

I lol'd at this.

 

"GIVE ME THE BEST GEAR WITH THE SMALLEST EFFORT...

 

BECAUSE I WANT IT!!!"

 

-You.

 

Listen, pal. That's just not the way it works. The game was designed to have linear progression in pvp item sets. The way the bags and daily rewards function before this patch, you could get a full set of Champion without ever having to bother with Centurion.

 

That's just not what's intended, and there's a reason for that -- sacrificing Expertise for stats at the lowest end.

 

Yes, it's going to be much much harder to get Champion gear now. That's what's intended you ********s.

[indelible]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

I hope you see this response in the sea of whining this board suffers, as I have some "constructive" comments to make.

 

Firstly, good job. This is a good step to resolving the issues that a lot of players have with PvP loot distribution, but it isn't the be all and end all of fixes in this area. Buffing up Cent and Champ commendation drops means that people get into PvP gear faster.

 

The difference between the tiers of PvP gear is negligible so it's a nice change.

 

I do think you need to make it so that you can turn in duplicate tokens for commendations, by allowing Champions Tokens to be traded for Centurion Commendations.

 

Even better - remove Champ tokens and replace them with champ commendations.

[dannomite]

I'm happy with this change overall. But I think I'll still be a ways away from being able to get the BM bags by the time I'm full centurion...

 

Oh well as long as I can convert unneeded commendations into credits or gear for my companions, I can live with it.

[Budizzle]

Even better - remove Champ tokens and replace them with champ commendations.

 

I think this is a superb idea.

[malformed]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

 

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it...

 

Screw centurion gear? it doesn't get us an item of our choice, it gets us SOMETHING but not really what we are hoping for. just a piece to hold us over until we get that champ piece we ACTUALLY wanted.

 

don't get me wrong, something (even cent gear) is better than nothing.

 

seems like all you are doing is making it harder for us to get what we want, not easier.

its like you guys are Genies, we wish for something and you twist it & screw us over somehow. haha

 

what people don't like is opening 10 bags and getting nothing but coms.

this change doesn't change that, actually it makes it worse?

 

why not instead of getting specific tokens we just get "a token" that can be used to buy "an item of our choice".

sure, we may still see a few too many bags with just coms in it, but when we get a token.... at least then, we could get the specific piece we need.

so with the RNG, we won't get 6 wrist tokens, 3 offhand, a bazillion relics, etc.

 

again, don't get me wrong... getting extra pieces of pvp gear just so i can rip the mods out for my other gear is great. but pfft.

 

duno about you dev's anymore, starting to think you like to make overly complicated/drastic changes that don't actually solve problems as intended instead of just doing something simple.

 

I was in FULL champ gear at valor 50 or so, I'm certainly not complaining for my sake here.

I just feel for the people that get screwed by RNG, and are seemingly getting screwed by this supposed fix.

Edited February 2, 2012 by malformed

[harkain]

I think the issue is that 'item of our choice' does not mean centurion gear.

 

I find centurion gear a poor 'if I really have to' alternative to champ gear. The only way it seems to be viable for me is if I do PvE operations to get level 56 mods to re-mod it (or remod it with duplicate champ gear I can pull the mods out of).

 

I really prefer the current RNG-based system. I've been able to get 75% champ gear within 2 weeks, and under the proposed new system, that sounds like it's impossible.

 

spoiled fricking pvpers.

 

welcome to a tier gear system, you are not supose to leapfrog tier 1 (centurion) just because bw slipped up and made tier 2 drop chance 80% to good, 1 piece in 20 bags or so should be more than enough.

 

But sure i would like to skip a tier in pve to even though its about 10000x more work to get it than solo quing half afk warzones.

[dannomite]

I think this is a superb idea.

 

3 tiers of bags each with valor restrictions. imo

[Apocryphas]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

-- Georg

 

How about this. You guys focus on adding competitive and fun elements to PVP, rather than just awarding any old scrub the best PVP gear. I want to be rewarded based on how good of a player I am. If I am better than other players, I want to be rewarded for it. Those rewards should be incentive for other players to push their limits and become skillful themselves. Warzones are the PVP version of Flashpoints, but where is our equivalent to Operations? Grinding BG's isn't an ideal form of endgame PVP.

 

P.S. Fix Jedi Guardians

Edited February 2, 2012 by Apocryphas

[Budizzle]

duno about you dev's anymore, starting to think you like to make overly complicated/drastic changes that don't actually solve problems as intended instead of just doing something simple.

 

Just because it didn't solve the problem the way you wanted doesn't mean it's not currently functioning as intended after the patch.

 

Listen guys. You're forced to a mostly full set of Centurion gear before Champion.

 

That seems like typical tier progression to me.

[xOspreyx]

I lol'd at this.

 

"GIVE ME THE BEST GEAR WITH THE SMALLEST EFFORT...

 

BECAUSE I WANT IT!!!"

 

-You.

 

Listen, pal. That's just not the way it works. The game was designed to have linear progression in pvp item sets. The way the bags and daily rewards function before this patch, you could get a full set of Champion without ever having to bother with Centurion.

 

That's just not what's intended, and there's a reason for that -- sacrificing Expertise for stats at the lowest end.

 

Yes, it's going to be much much harder to get Champion gear now. That's what's intended you ********s.

 

Well Mr. Internet Tough Guy, that's not what I was saying at all. What I WAS saying was that this change is going to make it harder for new 50s to get caught up to where many, many people already are. I have an assassin that has all Champ gear now except the belt and 1 implant so he's hardly effected by this change. However, I know what a difference that champ gear makes over non-pvp or the Centurion crap. It's substantial. Hell, you have a guy just a couple posts above yours saying that t2 pve gear is better than Centurion.

 

I've got no problem going through a progression. What I have a problem with is the beginning of that progression is not as good as crafted pve blues when it's supposed to be epic quality. That makes it undesirable and having to grind through it is kind of pointless when you likely won't even want to wear any of it anyway.

[Torn]

Its funny because they fail to address the actual problem (as usual) - sure some people had a problem with the RNG - but I think the biggest issue is champion dupes, which will be even more of a problem with this much less chance to get gear.

 

So now you may get more cent coms but when you do actually get a champ piece it still may very well be the exact piece you just got - if you are going to make this change you need to make champ tokens work like BM tokens do now so that when you do hit RNG you can get whatever you want.

 

At this point the change is stupid - you cannot have a system that worked that way for this long and then change it like this - it will take way longer to get gear - what this will create is most people wont even have many champ pieces before they hit BM

Edited February 2, 2012 by Torn

[grapefruit]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

I think we could use some more clarification Georg.

 

Currently we get Cent commendations from the bags, and a chance at Champion gear. If this change would give us more Cent commendation for the lower gear and REDUCE our chance at Champion gear, making it even MORE random for getting that gear until we manage to grind to valor rank 60.

 

If however the champion bags now drop some champion commendations, then we have reduced RNG and gain the gear at a much more steady rate with less random SPIKES of gear.

 

So to clarify my question again:

Do Champion bags now drop Champion commendations? Or still only cent commendations?

 

On a lighter note the whole "This is what you asked for" with the possibility of it being a large reduction in gear availability reminds me of those jokes where one makes wishes with an evil genie or deals with the devil and you have to be really careful how you phrase it.

[BDutch]

Has it been mentioned somewhere exactly how large the commendation increase per bag is?

[TheHoodedFang]

This gets more and more ridiculous with each attempted fix.

 

The PvP Design Team leaves much to be desired, and BW's constant claims about how listening to the community is top priority go right out the window every time you attempt to fix these issues, because it is blatantly clear that you are outright ignoring us.

 

We don't need more commendations, we need gear. Your poor decisions have ensured that many others are fully geared, and that those who are not will not be able to compete for quite some time. Do

 

How do you not see the real issue here? This is not rocket science.

[JonnyFreedom]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

I am currently a Battlemaster and soon to be War Hero. I am still missing 2 pieces of champ gear and ZERO pieces of BM gear due to really poor RNG and duplicates. If this system gets any worse.... I dont see continue playing.

 

If the Bags dropped the tokens they were labeled after sure I could swallow it.. But as it stands... *** am I going to do with a ton of champ tokens while I am hunting for BM Gear?

 

Valor Rank 1-30 = Cent Tokens with a small chance at a piece of gear

 

Valor Rank 30-60 = Champ Tokens with a small chance at a piece of gear

 

Valor Rank 60-90 = BM Tokens with a small chance at a piece of gear

 

Valor Rank 90-100 = Tokens with no chance at gear.

Edited February 2, 2012 by JonnyFreedom

[xOspreyx]

spoiled fricking pvpers.

 

welcome to a tier gear system, you are not supose to leapfrog tier 1 (centurion) just because bw slipped up and made tier 2 drop chance 80% to good, 1 piece in 20 bags or so should be more than enough.

 

But sure i would like to skip a tier in pve to even though its about 10000x more work to get it than solo quing half afk warzones.

 

Let me ask you something then pve guy. Would you be a little irked if the tier 1 epic pve stuff wasn't any better, and in many cases was worse, than crafted blue stuff? Yeah, I thought so.

[TheHoodedFang]

I lol'd at this.

 

"GIVE ME THE BEST GEAR WITH THE SMALLEST EFFORT...

 

BECAUSE I WANT IT!!!"

 

-You.

 

Listen, pal. That's just not the way it works. The game was designed to have linear progression in pvp item sets. The way the bags and daily rewards function before this patch, you could get a full set of Champion without ever having to bother with Centurion.

 

That's just not what's intended, and there's a reason for that -- sacrificing Expertise for stats at the lowest end.

 

Yes, it's going to be much much harder to get Champion gear now. That's what's intended you ********s.

 

You took advantage of broken systems to gain your gear, there was no "effort" involved.

[Boroming]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

sorry but that is just wrong.

 

since from champion bags you get centurion token, and not champion token, the only reliable method to get champion will be hitting valor 60 when you should worried about getting battlemaster.... that is just wrong.

 

you want the new 50s to not hit a wall from equip?

change the lvl 40 pvp set, upgrade to 48 (all mods 48) and give a fair ammount of expertise (200-300 from full set?) and leave the bags as they are now.

 

if you change like you want you will increase the distance not decrease it.

 

 

froma a 55+ valor jugg and neo 50 trooper... (hitting the damn wall in wz)

Edited February 2, 2012 by Boroming

[Majirayan]

Really? I mean Really? Does BW even play this game? Yes lets pursue the chance at LOWER tier'd gear!

[malformed]

Just because it didn't solve the problem the way you wanted doesn't mean it's not currently functioning as intended after the patch.

 

Listen guys. You're forced to a mostly full set of Centurion gear before Champion.

 

That seems like typical tier progression to me.

 

 

that defies logic.

he says it's to reduce the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY but it doesn't do that, it makes champ gear harder to get along with forcing people into more cent gear while they play the RNG game with decreased odds of actually getting that champ piece...

 

point is this wont fix the prob. people will just complain more about all the bags with coms.

it's a complicated fix to a simple problem that doesn't actually fix the aforementioned problem, just compounds it.

 

if the intention is to get people to wear more centurion gear, great, but there is probably better ways of doing it without pissing off the people all ready wearing centurion gear due to poor luck with RNG that are shooting for champ gear.

[Stongrel]

Bioware is taking a broken system and breaking it even further.

 

Doesn't fix DUPLICATES.

 

In addition, you now have to be rank 60, Battlemaster (tier 3), to obtain Champion gear (tier 2) coms. Explain to me how this makes any sense.

 

Those defending the nerf either don't pvp, or already have full champ/battlemaster.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Stongrel

[WarheartZero]

This will be a forgotten issue in 2 months once it becomes the standard for progression. The only ones affected are the temporary people that will see this transition. Otherwise no big deal.

 

People get so dramatic on these forums lol.

Edited February 2, 2012 by WarheartZero

[ArtosKincaid]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Please give us the ability to open Battlemaster bags before rank 60 then, because it'll be the only way to consistently get champ gear before you're eligible to get battlemaster gear.

 

While this change enables getting the low level gear faster, it really exacerbates the problem created by the current system - people who've gotten lucky on bags are incredibly far ahead gear-wise and there's even less of a chance of us getting caught up to make fights somewhat reasonable.

 

I would be more understanding if there hadn't been a significant period of time where Ilum objective trading made farming battlemaster bags into a joke.

Edited February 2, 2012 by ArtosKincaid

[Sirsri]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

You're on the right track.

 

But the system is is need of a rethink a little. Perhaps 'centurions' gear should be relatively easy to get, and the point in which you'd have a bunch centurions gear opens up second pvp bracket. But then when you get into the better bracket you want a fairly consistent stream of things progressing you towards both champions and then battlemaster gear.

[Kirin]

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

We know exactly what you were saying, but it's definitely NOT what anyone asked for. Having to get to Battlemaster just to wear Champion gear? Maybe if it had been that way from the start, but as it stands punishing people for reaching 50 late when there's already a huge gear gap is just a terrible idea.

 

You guys have really lost touch with your customer base. I've never thought about unsubbing until I read this comment. You let me down hard, Georg. The lack of understanding of the situation makes it look like you're trolling us. That, or you really have no clue what people are asking for.