What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Noollig]

The 10-49 bracket is much more fun than the 50s bracket. What sucks is that people want to get new gear so they suffer through matches that aren't fun to gear up. Anything that makes the 50s warzones more like the 10-49 bracket is very welcome in my book.

 

Why not just have a 50s bracket where stats are normalized and gear is irrelevant and it gives the same rewards as the gear based bracket. Then warzones at 50 would be skill based and fun.

 

World PvP can be gear-based... but I still wish expertise was removed entirely.

[Malice_Nihilim]

Character progression in an MMO? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

 

1000 ways to do character progression without gear progression, and 'VAST' gear progression.

 

Slight scaling would have done them wonders if they wanted a gear grind, but excluding Expertise, the stat bonuses along dramatically tip the scales which is bad.

[Razot]

The 10-49 bracket is much more fun than the 50s bracket. What sucks is that people want to get new gear so they suffer through matches that aren't fun to gear up. Anything that makes the 50s warzones more like the 10-49 bracket is very welcome in my book.

 

Why not just have a 50s bracket where stats are normalized and gear is irrelevant and it gives the same rewards as the gear based bracket. Then warzones at 50 would be skill based and fun.

 

World PvP can be gear-based... but I still wish expertise was removed entirely.

 

NO! NO! NO!

 

Gear destroys world PVP... if anything leave it the WF's!!

[MPagano]

I don't understand the argument that 1-49 is any better. You still are missing skills compared to higher levels. If I'm 25 and I'm playing a lvl 49, I better lose or that player is terrible. Same goes for lvl 50 pvp. If I'm in greens and blues, and someone else is in battlemaster, I better lose or that player is terrible.

 

Guess what? Both scenarios happen frequently. It is about skill. When skill is comparable, it boils down to gear. That last caveat doens't exist in the 10-49 bracket. That doesn't make it better, only more convenient. No one is winning a lot in any bracket and complaining. It's the people who lose that don't like it. Those people don't like the fact that they're either outgeared/outleveled (and who would like that? It's like the only difference between you and your opponent is time sunk into the game), or the fact that they're outskilled.

 

I can understand the frustration associated with the former, but a lot of you don't realize that you're victims of the latter. You just need to understand that you're being beaten by marginal differences in skill and system/server performance. That's the nature of all online pvp. The situations with gear/level are always going to be part of MMO pvp. No one is saying you're bad, but little things tip the scales against you. Maybe you're not the best.

[Yescek]

I need to get really pissed of when I die, and my equipment is going away!

I need to get really mad when my wife calls me to help to open a bottle of wine and I leave my friends outnumbered.

I need to get crazy because my top equipment was looted and now I see that ***** using it to fight me

 

Make me hungry and I'm your slave BIOWARE!

 

 

Some of us have other things going on. Like a career, a family life, other hobbies.

 

I refuse to PAY a company to play a game that penalizes the casual player.

 

If you want to dump your soul into a game, be my guest. But don't penalize me for not doing the same.

[LordThar]

Even though I have pvp gear and have spent a lot of time getting it I hate the fact that if I run into a fresh level 50 in a WZ he has absolutely no chance against me, that is not fun for either of us. In my mind pvp should be competitive and skill based, that is what makes it fun. But this whole attitude many of the high ranks have that their gear needs to be absolutely amazing so only somebody that has spent as much time as them can stand a chance is just pathetic.

[Mikisoq]

People who have logical points, have no reason not to be civil.

 

It would seem however that your assessment that this thread and those like it will "not do anything" I would say you are in error.

 

 

 

They are also working on changing the system to make the economy more player crafter based. Like it was in SWG. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=260731

 

And finally, just to make this clear it would behoove you not to spend your time trying to make up what the person you are debating with is thinking. I loved SWG, but I have never been under the delusion that this game is going to be SWG. There are actually aspects of many other MMORPGs that I feel would be good here. Including coalitions like in COV, a lot of aspects of DAOC, etc.

 

Now, please stay on topic. The topic is not what you believe I think. It is about the benefits of gear vs skill PVP.

 

 

Torleen, if you we're a gatling-gun i would hold you to my head and say "kiss me" like heavy from tf2.

[Espo]

Expertise = SKILLS, NOT

 

Expertise removes the casual player out of PVP.

 

Remove Expertise from the game.

 

I want to get my toon to lvl 49 and turn off experience gain off.

 

Sure have gear as a reward. Same type of gear as given from daily's and hard more flashpoints. Just remove the Expertise.

 

Make PVP fun for the casual players again past 50.

 

Are those with the Expertise gear scared of the other players? They play all the time and need help to win?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Espo

[Taerrik]

Expertise is really easy to get

 

I did warzones 10-50 for leveling, sometimes doing class quests when long queues were out.

 

Ive been level 50 for 1 day, I already have 5 pieces of centurian, 2 pieces of champ, and 347 expertise.

 

 

Quit yer ****in

[CrunchyGremlin]

The sad fact is that this isnt going to change.

 

I have the creeping suspicion that the GW2 people were right.

 

The combat in this game is a lot of fun.

But it likely will be two years before it becomes really good if people stick it out not just now but when the big changes happen.

 

Lots of people will quit when they make the big changes as PvP folks are the biggest whiners in any MMORPG.

[icecoldone]

Nope. I don't want gear to matter.

 

Player vs Player.

 

Not gear vs. gear.

 

Come on, if you are a PVPer you don't need the crutch. Don't hide behind your gear.

 

Ok i'll say this. If you think i'm hiding behind my gear. Why don't you quit crying work to get to my gear level and challenge me.

 

Once you reach Champion level gear in this game you can take on anyone pretty much on an equal footing.

 

I'm in full champion and i take on BMs in Full BM gear.

 

champion gear is so easy to get now. you get 100% chance every bag for something.

 

when i got my champion gear you could go 30 bags without getting anything but centurion commendations. And then when you finally did get something it was a dupe.

 

Just cos you don't want to work and have everything handed to you don't tell me i'm not a good player.

Edited February 13, 2012 by icecoldone

[Gryphandor]

If I could turn off exp gain I would at 49 for my favorite toon that was made just for PVP. I have no interest in the 50 PVP. My raiding toon that is 50 is no fun to bring into PVP at all. He is in some nice raiding gear and gets stomped.

 

When I was serious about the 50 PVP he got screwed on about 20+ bags so I gave up. That is a different thread though.

[blackadda]

If I could turn off exp gain I would at 49 for my favorite toon that was made just for PVP. I have no interest in the 50 PVP. .

 

Translation Follows:

 

I like stomping lowbies who dont have all their abilities when I do... and usually dont know thier class, when i have had 49 levels to learn mine.

 

I also sorta wish they never introduced the lvl 50 bracket...except it bracketed out all the players who know their class and because of that, will easily compete with me when i turn 50..so i dont want to turn 50 either

 

 

Edited February 13, 2012 by blackadda

[DarylMusashi]

Ok i'll say this. If you think i'm hiding behind my gear. Why don't you quit crying work to get to my gear level and challenge me.

 

Once you reach Champion level gear in this game you can take on anyone pretty much on an equal footing.

 

I'm in full champion and i take on BMs in Full BM gear.

 

champion gear is so easy to get now. you get 100% chance every bag for something.

 

when i got my champion gear you could go 30 bags without getting anything but centurion commendations. And then when you finally did get something it was a dupe.

 

Just cos you don't want to work and have everything handed to you don't tell me i'm not a good player.

 

Translation: "I'm too scared to drop the gear advantage. I NEED IT or I can't win."

[DarylMusashi]

Translation Follows:

 

I like stomping lowbies who dont have all their abilities when I do... and usually dont know thier class, when i have had 49 levels to learn mine.

 

I also sorta wish they never introduced the lvl 50 bracket...except it bracketed out all the players who know their class and because of that, will easily compete with me when i turn 50..so i dont want to turn 50 either

 

 

 

The level 10 player has a far greater chance against the twinked 49 than the fresh 50 does versus the geared 50s.

[Lividcalm]

Having gear matter in pvp is honestly the dumbest thing about MMO pvp.

 

When you can win a fight before a shot is launched just because you outgear somone does not make a good game.

 

The problem is, how do you get people to pvp if gear doesn't matter and they don't have that carrot on a stick?

 

Simple: Remove Expertise as a stat. Keep the gear, get better stats and atts, gear set bonues, etc. Just get rid of a PvP only stat that circumvents skill.

 

Real PvP'rs play for the fun of the fight and to grow in skills, everyone else is just a gear whore that hides behind Expertise.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Lividcalm

[DrekorSilverfang]

Yep, in shadowbane, not only could a max level player kill a level 20 player. But that max level player had best in slot items.

Those were the good old days.

 

Wait a second?

You guys are complaining that level 50s can kill you with better gear?

Man up and learn to play.

 

Anyone complaining about the gear system, obviously doesn't know much about PvP in RPGs. I have a feeling many posters here, have only had experience with WoW.

Nothing at all is stopping you from getting the gear yourself. In other games, people could actually stop you entirely from getting gear, or take it from your dead body.

 

Difference being in shadowbane you could go from character creation to max level with BiS gear in a couple hours 99% of that time would be spent AFK to boot.

[Razot]

Simple: Remove Expertise as a stat. Keep the gear, get better stats and atts, gear set bonues, etc. Just get rid of a PvP only stat that circumvents skill.

 

Real PvP'rs play for the fun of the fight and to grow in skills, everyone else is just a gear whore that hides behind Expertise.

 

I have to agree with you.

[Khoraji]

It teaches us that people are lazy and want everything given to them.

[Organikal]

Simple: Remove Expertise as a stat. Keep the gear, get better stats and atts, gear set bonues, etc. Just get rid of a PvP only stat that circumvents skill.

 

Real PvP'rs play for the fun of the fight and to grow in skills, everyone else is just a gear whore that hides behind Expertise.

 

This solves NOTHING because the dragonslayers will be able to get the gear twice as fast which will be NOT popular in the PvP community.

 

MMO's are about gear and stats. There is no other way to do it then the current system (I'm not saying it's a good system but the gear progression needs to stay in place)

 

In this frame of mind there should be no gear progression in PvE either and all PvPers should be able to jump in with their gear and potentially have the best performance?

Edited February 13, 2012 by Organikal

[Torleen]

Ok i'll say this. If you think i'm hiding behind my gear. Why don't you quit crying work to get to my gear level and challenge me.

 

Once you reach Champion level gear in this game you can take on anyone pretty much on an equal footing.

 

I'm in full champion and i take on BMs in Full BM gear.

 

champion gear is so easy to get now. you get 100% chance every bag for something.

 

when i got my champion gear you could go 30 bags without getting anything but centurion commendations. And then when you finally did get something it was a dupe.

 

Just cos you don't want to work and have everything handed to you don't tell me i'm not a good player.

 

I do want to work. I want to practice with my friends and perfect my build and strategy, and develop my reflexes. That does not mean anything is handed to me. Quite the opposite.

 

Any wins you get via gear advantage were "handed to you".

[Torleen]

pvp without progression is empty and pointless

 

unless it had a runescape style like the wilderness. otherwise you will have 15 hour WZ queus. because i promise you no one will play it

 

but i do like the idea of "i keel u i getz u stoof"

 

PVP ratings. That is the point. Proof that you have been tested against other players and came out on top.

 

Note I said other players. Not their gear.

[Lividcalm]

This solves NOTHING because the dragonslayers will be able to get the gear twice as fast which will be NOT popular in the PvP community.

 

MMO's are about gear and stats. There is no other way to do it then the current system (I'm not saying it's a good system but the gear progression needs to stay in place)

 

In this frame of mind there should be no gear progression in PvE either and all PvPers should be able to jump in with their gear and potentially have the best performance?

 

Nothing is popular in the PvP community, biggest bunch of whiny babies in all of gaming, so that's a moot point.

 

MMO's are not about gear and stats, they are what the developers make them. Unfortunately the current trend is gear and stats, but before WoW it used to be about community and fun. You can have gear progression without Expertise.

 

If you have the skill set, sure, why not? Is Tiger Woods good because of his clubs? Is Jordan good because of his sneakers?

 

No, they are good from practicing and perfecting their art, not because they have leet gear.

 

Gear does not = skill, regardless of argument.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Lividcalm

[Smashbrother]

People are leaving the 50's bracket and re-rolling characters so that they can continue to PVP in the 1-49 Brackets.

 

Lets really think about what that means.

 

It means that people would rather do the PVE grind AGAIN then put up with being the equivalent of being grey mobs in WZs who's purpose seems to be to entertain no one but the people who are lucky enough to have more free time or unlucky enough to simply have no life who get to kill you over and over again.

 

It means that PVP is MORE exciting when your adrenaline is pumping because you are in a pitched battle with someone who does the same damage and takes the same damage you do and it really comes down to quick thinking, reflexes and strategy that you EARNED through practice rather then because you have a statistical advantage over your opponent. Where the timing of every shot counts. And obviously that is going to be more exciting then losing simply because your opponent hits far harder and takes far less damage.

 

Gear based "PVP" is not a test of a player vs a player unless people really think that because someone was able to do more repetitive tasks over and over again because they don't have kids, or a job or a life (Or simply are willing to sacrifice those things they should be spending more time on) is somehow something that people can be tested for and be lauded as if they "accomplished" something.

 

The grind olympics? Is that something you want to be remembered for? You were better at wasting more time in your life then someone else so you "win"?

 

If we are going to have brackets, I think we should have a bracket where Expertise is shut off. ESPECIALLY if you are thinking E-sport. And ESPECIALLY if you are going to have a PVP rating system.

 

I have a feeling that bracket would be far more populated.

 

EDIT TO CLEAR UP A MISCONCEPTION: I do not feel that gear should no longer be acquirable through PVP. I feel that gear should be attainable through PVP, and be on par with gear in PVE. And that the advantage gear affords be curbed in PVP across the board. I am not asking for PVE to cause someone to win PVP. Resilience was the wrong answer. Expertise is no better.

 

People are not rerolling alts because they get stomped in 50 pvp, they reroll because they are either bored or simply want to try a different char. I have a 50 guardian and made a commando to try out being a healer in pvp.

 

PvP gear is horribly easy to get now. Doing the dailies and weeklies and someone can get full cent/champ within a few days.

 

The 10-49 bracket is no different than having fresh 50s face against BM geared players. The stats may be similar but the fact that higher levels have most of their important skills AND more talent points = they will never lose to a lowbie. Playing on my 44 commando healer, the games where I get a bunch of <20 players on my team when the enemy has 30+ means we lose the vast majority of the time.

[karnyboy]

I hit 50 and finally got a full champion set...guess what...I don't know what problems you speak of.

 

 

You start hitting 7% Expertise and you will start noticing a difference.