Sexual violence, slavery, and genocide. Just another day in the Empire?

[Vaegaknight]

Maybe true that the content here is technically categorized as Teen, but I think the OP is trying to say that the rating system itself is flawed. You get punched with a mature rating for showing too much side ****, but torture, head-removal, genocide, et al are fit material for anyone over 13. I do happen to think that's a bit of a problem.

 

It is not the responsibility of video games, movies, or books to teach children. The entire rating system ITSELF is an absolute *********** farce. It places the blame of childhood stupidity on the wrong people when the blame and the responsibility should be placed solely on the shoulders of the parents.

 

That's the bane of our society. We treat symptoms. Not diseases.

[Scoobings]

well that ends the misleading rating thing right there

 

No it won't because people will complain for the sake of complaining and all we can do is thank god that no one like this has been allowed to pass any of their crazy-*** laws yet.

[Cwyn]

I agree with the OP, I think. Often I ask myself in game how the heck the Empire survives without constant revolts and defections. Their society is so draconian, corrupt, and plain antiSOCIAL, it doesn't make sense how it doesn't just kill itself off.

 

Two of my Empire characters (of four) are light side. Someone once asked in game why anyone would play a light Sith. That bit mentioned above is why! There has to be someone instilling some kind of good faith in order to keep this society together.

 

Bioware hasn't made it easy with all the senseless hate and rage mongering. I was hoping for some intelligently driven, calculating, philosophical arguments on why the Dark Side should be an attractive path and all I get is license to be psycho/sociopathic! How could anyone, let alone a disciplined Jedi, ever consider falling to the Dark Side?

 

And truthfully, I can only take so much of playing my two Dark Side before I have to switch to a goody-goody or neutral character. I sometimes joke how "that's immersion for you!"

[Scoobings]

It is not the responsibility of video games, movies, or books to teach children. The entire rating system ITSELF is an absolute *********** farce. It places the blame of childhood stupidity on the wrong people when the blame and the responsibility should be placed solely on the shoulders of the parents.

 

That's the bane of our society. We treat symptoms. Not diseases.

 

The rating system should simply be used as an advisory tool to parents. It's impossible for a parent to be 100% aware of what a child is doing 100% of the time. Any parent who thinks they are is fooling themselves.

 

I think it's good to have tools like the rating system for the parents to at least have some kind of agency post a standardized system so a parent can know what their child is getting into.

 

Same goes for movies. It's when people put too much weight in the system and try to censor based on it that we run into problems.

[Owsley]

This has to be a troll.

 

There's nothing sexual about Vette's shock collar unless you had sexual thoughts in your head to begin with. Blame yourself for being a deviant.

 

Could also be posted by Garth from Wayne's World. Didn't he get hot for the female Buggs Bunny?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Owsley

[Vaegaknight]

I agree with the OP, I think. Often I ask myself in game how the heck the Empire survives without constant revolts and defections. Their society is so draconian, corrupt, and plain antiSOCIAL, it doesn't make sense how it doesn't just kill itself off.

 

Two of my Empire characters (of four) are light side. Someone once asked in game why anyone would play a light Sith. That bit mentioned above is why! There has to be someone instilling some kind of good faith in order to keep this society together.

Bioware hasn't made it easy with all the senseless hate and rage mongering. I was hoping for some intelligently driven, calculating, philosophical arguments on why the Dark Side should be an attractive path and all I get is license to be psycho/sociopathic! How could anyone, let alone a disciplined Jedi, ever consider falling to the Dark Side?

 

And truthfully, I can only take so much of playing my two Dark Side before I have to switch to a goody-goody or neutral character. I sometimes joke how "that's immersion for you!"

 

That's what you get for going into this game without knowing a single thing about Star Wars.

 

You came into the game with your own expectations instead of knowledge. That's your fault.

[Scoobings]

I agree with the OP, I think. Often I ask myself in game how the heck the Empire survives without constant revolts and defections. Their society is so draconian, corrupt, and plain antiSOCIAL, it doesn't make sense how it doesn't just kill itself off.

 

Two of my Empire characters (of four) are light side. Someone once asked in game why anyone would play a light Sith. That bit mentioned above is why! There has to be someone instilling some kind of good faith in order to keep this society together.

 

Bioware hasn't made it easy with all the senseless hate and rage mongering. I was hoping for some intelligently driven, calculating, philosophical arguments on why the Dark Side should be an attractive path and all I get is license to be psycho/sociopathic! How could anyone, let alone a disciplined Jedi, ever consider falling to the Dark Side?

 

And truthfully, I can only take so much of playing my two Dark Side before I have to switch to a goody-goody or neutral character. I sometimes joke how "that's immersion for you!"

 

Are you familiar with the universe and the timeline AT ALL? "How the heck the Empirse survives without constant revolts and defectiosn."

 

Really?

 

Spoiler alert: It does

 

That's what the Republic is, and that's what the rebellion is later, and it's what eventually brings down the Empire.

 

That's the point of the entire saga.

[Shampoo]

It mirrors something seriously wrong with society. A passivity in regards to violence towards women--you reap Vette's benefits and torture her while she, at the very most, sass talks you for your actions, occasionally adding a suggestive nod.

 

...and when she does talk back, she earns another shock in the hands of some players.

 

I just find it shameful is all. I think it's degenerate, unrealistic and downright abysmal writing.

 

These design decisions indicate a failure to understand the progress made in gender relations for the past three decades.

 

The rule of thumb, disregarding what I consider the disgusting decision to market that sort of dribble to kids, is to provide proper context and commentary.

 

Keeping Vette as a slave with a shock collar on to keep as your sado-slave wasn't interesting, she largely spouted the same lines. The player is even awarded dark side points for exclusive items down the road.

 

So then can any Teen rated game have the option of featuring a protagonist whom tortures a "companion" who later becomes available for marriage? All the while during the adventure she takes the abuse in stride--remaining bubbly and flirtatious?

 

I don't see how this isn't seen as objectively gross.

 

The game provides a slave simulation minigame with sexual undertones and the ability to romance that very same slave as she remains subservient and takes your abuse in stride. (just buy her gifts!)

Edited February 1, 2012 by Shampoo

[ikinai]

Ok, i have to agree that some of the dark side choices i've seen on the imperial side just, suck (looking at you, dark side choices while trying to turn ashara), totally counter to what the story is trying to do, and yet it magically works out perfectly. i also have to point out that going lightside as the sith warrior surprised the heck outta me with how well it was written.

 

I also did not see the shock collar torture as sexual harassment (didn't seem to have a sexual context when the options came up), though if your character is male i can see how it could be interpreted as such without an overt reference.

 

Respectfully, i think you may be reading to much into writer motives here due to the passion you feel for the subject matter you are discussing. The absurdity of the dark side options seem to indicate that they were shoehorned in there simply to have the darkside option, which could simply be to even out the lightside darkside count. Poor darkside options could also be simply because the writers are not good at portraying an evil character within these contexts, the context is often identical for both the lightside and darkside choices since there is only one narrative, this can make one or both options seem more extreme.

 

Having said that, i have found several of the darkside options to be either absurd, or poorly thought out, or not actually evil at all. it is disappointing, but i didn't find it surprising.

 

Well the shock collar i use on my italian boything has sexual overtones, so I believe the OP is simply projecting their own desires into the game and are feeling a bit uncomfortable with where it is going.

 

Don't worry OP darling, we'll welcome you into our club

[Loyal_Viggo]

There's nothing sexual about Vette's shock collar unless you had sexual thoughts in your head to begin with. Blame yourself for being a deviant.

 

Well said, I accept the blame. However, as a deviant I wonder... can you equip the Slave Bikini on Vette and keep the collar on? Combined with those handle bars of hers...

 

Deviants everywhere rejoice!

 

Next thing you know the OP will be complaining about the fact you can get a Slave Bikini at all, as if it was never in the film.

 

I think it's discrimination not to offer the bikini to male characters, I think a cross-dressing SW character would be superb in PvP, you'd really throw off your opponents if you come at them in a two-piece with matching slave slippers. The game would win more awards for being pro-choice etc etc, but probably lose some points on women's rights.

 

Maybe all the female characters should stage a bra-burning at the Imperial Station, I'm sure all the male characters would come and watch/support them (no pun intended).

[CecilTellyn]

Haven't read all of the posts in here but I did fully read the OP's post.

 

OP, while I understand what you are saying, I have to disagree. First off, while we would both claim to be against censorship, you seem to be saying that instead of allow TOR to be as it is, it should "tone down" the Imperial side for the sake of the children. I would strongly disagree with this point (if I'm reading you correctly). Parents should filter what their children see, not society.

 

As for the current rating of T, that really isn't up to Bioware, but rather the ESRB (in America). If you have a problem and believe that it should be rated higher, you could contact the ESRB and lodge a complaint.

 

As for shocking Vette, I don't believe that has nothing to do with sex or sexual abuse. It's really just master/slave abuse. A female Sith can shock the hell out of Vette just as much as a male can and I don't think that there is any sexual tension there. You have the option of freeing her and then developing a real (as real as a video game can get) relationship with her.

 

This brings me to another point: the Empire is evil. I think we can all agree that slavery is horrible and has no place in the world but - again - the Empire is evil. If you think about Sith, they are typically horrible, horrible people. Sure, people can always argue that they are just going about their business in a different way from Jedi but the truth is, they have always - and will always - be portrayed as a fascist, racist, sexist, horrible group of people.

 

I've played Empire side and some of the choices I made that were Dark Side were pretty sickening, but they are SUPPOSED to be like that. It's why my main is a Light Side Jedi because that's the side I identify with the most. But if the Dark Side wasn't bad, the Light Side wouldn't have meaning. That said, it's still just a game and I wouldn't think for even a second that it would be advocating slavery, ****, etc.

Edited February 1, 2012 by CecilTellyn

[EssBen]

 

two of your 3 right there, topped off with eating something alive. Genocide already covered with the whole blowing up of entire planets caper.

 

I think the OP has watched a totally different set of films to the ones I did.

 

and we've not even started on slave girl Leia.

 

brb, got an appointment with my long lost son who I'm planning on freezing in a massive block then delivering to the evil overlord to end evil overlords so that he can be "converted" by the old fella :/

[Scoobings]

It mirrors something seriously wrong with society. A passivity in regards to violence towards women--you reap here benefits and torture her while she, at the very most, sass talks you for your actions.

 

...and when she does, she earns another shock in the hands of some players.

 

I just find it shameful is all. I think it's degenerate, unrealistic and downright abysmal writing.

 

These design decisions indicate a failure to understand the progress made in gender relations for the past three decades.

 

The rule of thumb, disregarding what I consider the disgusting decision to market that sort of dribble to kids, is to provide proper context and commentary.

 

Keeping Vette as a slave with a shock collar on to keep as your sado-slave wasn't interesting, she largely spouted the same lines. The player is even awarded dark side points for exclusive items down the road.

 

So then can any Teen rated game have the option of featuring a protagonist whom tortures a "companion" who later becomes available for marriage? All the while during the adventure she takes the abuse in stride--remaining bubbly and flirtatious?

 

I don't see how this isn't seen as objectively gross.

 

As I've said in other posts, the darkside/lightside items are purely cosmetic and give no rewards other than said cosmetics.

 

Couldn't you say the same thing about taking the darkside rode? "You are limiting yourself from exclusive items" by being evil.

 

By the way, you can take the shock collar of Vette at any time. The option is literally available to you as soon as you get her.

 

Also, see my other posts about the styilized world of Star Wars that I noticed you are conveniently ignoring before you start throwing words around that you don't understand. Like "art".

[ikinai]

Well said, I accept the blame. However, as a deviant I wonder... can you equip the Slave Bikini on Vette and keep the collar on? Combined with those handle bars of hers...

 

Deviants everywhere rejoice!

 

Next thing you know the OP will be complaining about the fact you can get a Slave Bikini at all, as if it was never in the film.

 

I think it's discrimination not to offer the bikini to male characters, I think a cross-dressing SW character would be superb in PvP, you'd really throw off your opponents if you come at them in a two-piece with matching slave slippers. The game would win more awards for being pro-choice etc etc, but probably lose some points on women's rights.

 

Maybe all the female characters should stage a bra-burning at the Imperial Station, I'm sure all the male characters would come and watch/support them (no pun intended).

 

You know, I wish I could put the female clothes on my male companions, I think Corso would look darling in the Coruscant evening gown.

[Vaegaknight]

It mirrors something seriously wrong with society. A passivity in regards to violence towards women--you reap Vette's benefits and torture her while she, at the very most, sass talks you for your actions, occasionally adding a suggestive nod.

 

...and when she does talk back, she earns another shock in the hands of some players.

 

I just find it shameful is all. I think it's degenerate, unrealistic and downright abysmal writing.

 

These design decisions indicate a failure to understand the progress made in gender relations for the past three decades.

 

The rule of thumb, disregarding what I consider the disgusting decision to market that sort of dribble to kids, is to provide proper context and commentary.

 

Keeping Vette as a slave with a shock collar on to keep as your sado-slave wasn't interesting, she largely spouted the same lines. The player is even awarded dark side points for exclusive items down the road.

 

So then can any Teen rated game have the option of featuring a protagonist whom tortures a "companion" who later becomes available for marriage? All the while during the adventure she takes the abuse in stride--remaining bubbly and flirtatious?

 

I don't see how this isn't seen as objectively gross.

 

Oh good lord man. Any sane human being will realize that this is just fantasy. If I saw a woman being abused in public I wouldn't stand for it, neither would I, personally abuse a woman.

 

But I have abused Vette.

 

Know why? Because all she is... Is code and pixels.

 

You have to be a troll. No one can be this freaking dense. No one can attribute this game to "a failure to understand the progress made in gender relations for the past three decades."

 

Holy CRAP. Do you read the stuff you type? How can thinking like this be okay to you? How can you read any book or play and violent video game? How can you watch violent movies? Are you that sensitive?

 

There's a distinct difference between fantasy/fiction and reality. Learn it. Accept it. Use your mind on something more important.

[NkSde]

Also people seem to overlook the fact that Vette is a SLAVE from a majority SLAVE RACE in star wars lore among the empire and, she's only 1 of 2 female companions the warrior has, and the other one. don't get me started on her, she scares me...

 

Then there's the fact that even as a female Sith guess what, still get Vette. is that same sex sexism? I don't get your argument here you want equal treatment of a digital slave character in a video game that you can take the collar off of as soon as you get into Dromund Kaas your treatment of her unfairly was your own choice not the game designers.

 

So truely, to believe that the game is designed in a manner that isoffensive towards females as a definitive is a false claim. You can treat your companion as nice or as mean as you want, by you CHOOSING to treat her bad you truely have noone to blame but yourself OP. Maybe you are in fact the evil on in this post. I know when I was using vette (yes I use jaesa sue me) I treated her like someone I would want to watch my back in a firefight...but that's just me.

 

I'm gunna go hide behind my conspiracy theorist shield now and hope the evil sexist bioware doesn't attack me.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Parali
rude, inappropriate content

[Tsillah]

I don't think any of these themes are worse than what you can read in the world's most known religious books. I don't think those books even have a T rating.

[ikinai]

I don't think any of these themes are worse than what you can read in the world's most known religious books. I don't think those books even have a T rating.

 

I don't remember reading about genocide in Hop on Pop, you must have been reading a different religious text than me.

[Scoobings]

I don't think any of these themes are worse than what you can read in the world's most known religious books. I don't think those books even have a T rating.

 

A thousand times this.

[Droidlife]

I havent really reflected over this because I'm a cuddly little care bear that wouldnt think mof chosing those nasty dark side conversation routes, but when you think about it is really extremely bizarre. I can not recall any other mmo on the market that promotes this type wierd narative. Having young teen boys infront of this game is just a really odd situation. It is another aspect of how profoundly BW has misunderstood this whole genre.

 

From the ship droid going on and on with its super annoying babbling loop, to the cumbersome travel system, to the star fox space game to young boys torturing their in game companions and being rewarded for their effort with various "cool gear".

Edited February 1, 2012 by Droidlife

[SWImara]

It is not the responsibility of video games, movies, or books to teach children. The entire rating system ITSELF is an absolute *********** farce. It places the blame of childhood stupidity on the wrong people when the blame and the responsibility should be placed solely on the shoulders of the parents.

 

That's the bane of our society. We treat symptoms. Not diseases.

Couldn't agree more, but more than anything else I'm just tired of this being an issue. Back in undergrad I first encountered Moms Against Everything and the push to clean up video games. Whether TV, Video Games, Music or whatever else, its not responsible for people's kids sucking, crappy parenting is.

 

As for bad press, really who cares, if anything bad press has historically made games more popular. Writing articles or reporting on how some video game is morally reprehensible (laughable in SWTOR anyway) is about as effective as reporting on the dangers of new and not yet illegal designer drugs.

[Devianna]

I keep seeing this issue with Vette and shock collar pop up everyone on the internet and frankly I'm surprised with people.

My marauder is lvl 5 Light, Vette considers her a sister, her companions are actively working to reform Empire from the inside. She's even building relationships with Jedi and getting Jedi schools to teach peaceful coexistence and collaboration with the Sith.

All of it Because she doesn't want for genocide/slavery/abuse to continue. The game allows you to be very evil, if you chose so. It also allows you to be a revolutionary, so to speak, and to try and change the regime. You can also only care about the credits, or not care about anything at all. The point is- complaining that the "evil" side is "evil" is strange, and then going around and trying to see what every dark-side option does and THEN complaining that it's too dark is even stranger.

[EssBen]

"They never even asked me any questions... "

[Limedust]

It is not the responsibility of video games, movies, or books to teach children. The entire rating system ITSELF is an absolute *********** farce. It places the blame of childhood stupidity on the wrong people when the blame and the responsibility should be placed solely on the shoulders of the parents.

 

That's the bane of our society. We treat symptoms. Not diseases.

 

I don't look at ESRB as trying to teach anyone anything . . . and I agree that the rating system is a farce, mainly because the people behind it, like those that made ls/ds choices in this game, have no contextual perception of what it is that they are rating.

 

Interesting that we treat symptoms; you say that parents bear the responsibility for their stupid children, but then you seem to imply that we should 'treat' parents in some way in order to force them to make their kids something less than stupid. Where does it start then? A manual for parents? Laws for parents concerning how they should raise their kids? Or perhaps we should teach children the proper things from the get go, regardless of what their parents do, in order to make better parents in the future? Things aren't quite as simple as you make them out to be . . . but simplicity does make one feel better, doesn't it?

[ikinai]

I havent really reflected over this because I'm a cuddly little care bear that wouldnt think mof chosing those nasty dark side conversation routes, but when you think about it is really extremely bizarre. I can not recall any other mmo on the market that promote this type wierd narative. Having young teen boys infront of this game is just a really odd situation. It is another aspect of how profoundly BW has misunderstood this whole genre.

 

From the ship droid going on and on with its super annoying babbling loop, to the cumbersome travel system, to the star fox space game to young boys torturing their in game companions and being rewarded for their effort with various "cool gear".

 

You haven't been to a comic con have you? Where these same young boys are buying the Japanese video games. Go play one of those, then come talk about your experiences