Announcing The Old Republic Guild Summit

[NoobiGin]

That's pretty epic to sit at a table with the devs... even if it is just in game.

[Dragonexadon]

Another topic, that I almost forgot about. I would let an API for guild wbsites that hook into their DB for character information on our site.

[ManOSteal]

That's pretty epic to sit at a table with the devs... even if it is just in game.

 

ah..ah...I see what you did there. ya it's by far the weirdest ones but when are we going to be able to sit in chairs that aren't on our ship? Strange that of all things that is a top concern. Although I am currently also waiting on this. It will make RP a lot more fun for cantina nights especially if we can sit differently depending upon the furniture. Also some idling animations for the sitting models would be cool like the trooper field stripping his guns, or the smuggler leaning back in the chair or the Sith checking his sabers much like the troopers or the jedi meditating or floating something. stuff like that.

 

anyone else got anything fun.

Edited February 3, 2012 by ManOSteal

[Deewe]

Among many others, IMHO: topics to be discussed, timeline, implementation and explanations.

 

 

 

Very short term

• UI (1)
  
• Character customization (2)
  
• Appearance tabs (3)
  
• Travel time sinks & loading screens (28)
  

 

Short term

• LFG (4)
  
• Guild bank (5)
  
• Gear dyes (6)
  
• Dual Speccing (7)
  
• AA on shadows (24)
  
• GTN & Mailboxes (27)
  

 

Medium term

• UI mods (8)
  
• In game character creator (9)
  
• World PvP (10)
  
• Minigames (11)
  
• Gear mods (12)
  
• High resolution textures (25)
  
• AC respecs (26)
  
• Crafting (29)
  

 

Long term

• 3D multiplayer space shooter|sim (13)
  
• Non humanoid playable species (14)
  
• Day/night cycles (15)
  
• Swimming (16)
  
• Less $$$ dialog choices for non Smugglers or BH (17)
  
• Housing (23)
  
• 3D exploration (30)
  

 

On going patches*

• World events (18)
  
• Improve mobs AI (19)
  
• World consistency (20)
  
• Consistent dialog choices vs spoken lines. (21)
  
• Running animation rigidity (22)
  

 

(*): including bug fixes, class balance, new content.

 

Wall of text incoming, you have been warned

 

 

===============

(1): The UI is certainly sleek but it's one of the worst MMO wide. Even AoC UI is better..

Start with allowing the player to show/hide/move/scale any frame. And by scaling I mean scaling every frame independently. Be more flexible on quickbars. Improve chat. Add a disable smart camera. Improve chat and add chat bubbles = 80% done (or just implement WAR UI)

 

(2): In TOR players keep seeing their character in full screen, character customization should be top notch. It's obviously too late for sliders but the issue can still be mitigated.

First add a 5th body choice (hopefully textures will fit or you are doomed)

Then add way more various and more realistic faces, hair, tattoos, piercings, eye color. First face pass has to be on the cyborgs mobs. They have to be totally redone. Ideally makeup and tattoo dyes would be added here or later on (see #9)

 

(3): The mod system is too slow/too little. Game's look like clone wars. Pants won't always fit the chest. Add to that players need to dress up their character and theirs companions. Adding an appearance tab will allow player to look like the way they want to. It will increase the value and usability of all items. Players don't want anymore to be imposed how to look due to the item stats. The Appearance tab will also mitigate the lack of gear dyes and the hood issue.

 

(4): LFG (Looking for Groups). This is an MMO don't you want to encourage players to group with others? Already the chat features and the lack of text bubbles is an hindrance. A solid LFG, eventually cross server for PvP only, could tremendously help the game.

 

(5): Guild bank. Details of their functionality as needed by the guilds.

 

(6): Gear dyes. Mostly all AAA MMO have this. It become a basic feature, even more in a game in which, once again, you keep watching your character and other's toons in close ups. Note: GW2 will even have 3 dye able zones per items with a choice among a palette of 400 colors.

 

(7): Respeccing to switch from let's say solo PvE, to RAID, or PvP, even free is annoying. And, you obviously want to encourage players to group and enjoy the type of game play they're in the actual mood to enjoy not hinder them. It would also tremendously help mitigating the shortage of healers.

 

(8): From AoC UI skins to WoW mods, you obviously want to add UI mods. You can delay player's expectations a bit with #1 but it won't last long.

 

(9): Seeing their characters in full screen too often might annoy them in the long term. Most certainly the facial feature they loved when they created their character is getting old. While you want to encourage them to reroll another character, you don't want them to quit the game because they got fed up of it. So add a SWG like image designer feature in TOR. And I would go farther allowing players to, eventually, even be able to change their character's name, specie, and sex! (Yes you can do all this in RL too. Well, maybe not specie. At least until we find aliens!)

 

(10): It's supposed to be a WAR era. World PvPing should be available at low level, and everywhere an PvP servers. Stoned at medium term as needs a huge revamp

 

(11): Pazaak, among others, will be a nice addition to provide more various divertissement to the player. It's a quick win. More time and $$$ consuming are pod/swoop racing. Also multiplayer Pazaak restricted to social zones could help socialization.

 

(12): Gear mods can still be used with appearance tabs. It will be a good way to keep players "grinding" mods to enhance their stuff, be it displayed or not. Also it works very well for weapons

 

(13): Multiplayer space sim/shooter is a must to have in TOR and it will make a great Xpack. It's a way to keep space sim fans longer and even bring more players in the game. It's also a nice alternative to ground combat, that would fill in the player's wishes for exploration and could be linked with ground content like smuggling missions. Personally I'd like an enhanced X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter but a BFII ++ could do the trick. Also if the space combat is too easy at all levels it will be boring fast. While a space sim would keep players subscribed just for it, as it did in SWG.

 

(14): It's STAR WARS not blue, green, red, grey, blind human wars. While the cost to make them is really high (New meshes and textures for all geear) New non humanoid species will be praised by many players. Also playable droids would be quite something.

 

(15): Day/Night cycles. They might never be added in the game, however actually players are looking forward having even seasons in their MMO with changing world. At least if you're adding new planets/zones, do build them from start with day/night cycles.

 

(16): Swimming is mostly for explorers, so who cares? However not only it helps immersion but GW2 swimming system is pretty sleek too. Could be added in a separate X-pack with underwater planets and news species.

 

(17): Might look a bit odd, still while writing the new quests dialogs, please increase the quality for dark/light side choices and at least do not always add $$$ lines for non smugglers or BH.

 

(18): World events are here to entertain the players and from time to time remove them from story and V.O. They can really smoothen out the feeling of a game on RAILS.

 

(19): Mobs AI is disappointing in this game. Too many mobs are standing still or not reacting really well in combat. Please keep working on it.

 

(20): The game feels dead. Make NPC and non aggressive creatures move around, add world critters, more world sounds like birds singing. Help players think the world is alive!

 

(21): Too often the dialogs option does not fit what the character is actually saying. It removes the control from the player's hands and makes him a spectator not an actor. So pass through ALL dialog options and make sure the 1-2-3 dialog fits the spoken lines: no more let's talk money option to end with: I want money upfront!

 

(22): Character still feel like having a stick in the bottom, remove it or allow it to be more... flexible

 

(23): While it's a wild dream to expect something as deep as SWG housing system, first housing furnishing and then instanced planetary housing in NPC buildings, would not only add a new time sink but also help immersing the players in the world. On top of that you could add a new crafting & gathering profession. Finally it would be a good foundation for guild halls/ships

 

(24): Sadly the in game shadows looks like 10+ years old. Even high resolution textures feeling will be hammered with them

 

(25): The games does not look that bad but for a 2012 MMO the textures are looking poor. Even Wow, at first look, seems better. You need to be at least as good as others MMO.

 

(26): People that want to re-roll a character will do it no matter what and people, for whatever reasons, that aren't into alts won't reroll characters. AC respecs is a way to give more options to, eventually bored, players and keep them subscribed in the long term.

 

(27): GTN UI revamp goes to the UI part, still this is a sci-fi MMO, we should be able to browse the GTN and our emails through our datapds from everywhere in the galaxy. At least the locations from which our holocom is working. Companions should post stuff on the GTN and be able to get items from our space ship for us. Items, for a fee should be directly delivered to our space ships.

 

(28): Travelling and zoning is really annoying. Or would I say killing the fun. Start seriously reducing the loading screens through space ships. Add more direct zoning and reduce the travel back timer. Also, make it so we can recall from one planet to another. And make it so it costs more credits in fuel to go from one planet to another (75c?) than from a point to another on a planet (Taxi = 330c???) BTW travelling between planets should be a big money sinks, at least if you are looking to add money sinks.

 

(29): Crafting isn't really a side game play in an MMO. For some players it's the most important feature along say, running a business. In short make it so all professions are interesting from level 1 to after being caped and can make items on par with PvP and RAIDS.

 

(30): 3D exploration. We have the force (jump), jetpacks, grappling hooks, speeders,... And we can't even climb up/down on things higher than 2 feets. At least for the new zones/planets design them with that in mind. Allow players to force leap to specific places (grin included). Let jet pack owners safely land from insane heights jump with timely jetpacks activation. Have players use grappling hooks to cross gaps. Make players actually climb up/down cliffs. Add unexplored (yet) underwater rivers with shining lights coming from crystals.

 

And as per the suggestion forums (sorting the topics):

 

 

Per replies

#1: Dungeon Finder Needed Badly, 1555 replies

#2: PLease allow dual specs Or cap respec costs, 1006 replies

#3: This games badly needs Mods and macros, 1000 replies

#4: Please introduce dual spec ASAP, 753 replies

#5: Bioware: Allow Advanced Class Respec! 711 replies

Per views

#1: Legacy names -- allows us to change them, 55497 views

#2: PLease allow dual specs Or cap respec costs, 38114 views

#3: Devs, please add the following already completed hood down armors to the game, 33532 views

#4 Dungeon Finder Needed Badly, 26741 views

#5 This game badly needs mods and macros, 25487 views

 

Discuss these hot topics directly with the players.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Deewe

[DTuloJr]

Wall of text incoming, you have been warned

 

Excellent post of discussion points. Perhaps they'll finally listen. Most suggestions have been posted elsewhere on the SWTOR forums, frequently, for over a year.

 

(1): The UI is certainly sleek but it's one of the worst MMO wide. Even AoC UI is better..

Start with allowing the player to show/hide/move/scale any frame. And by scaling I mean scaling every frame independently. Be more flexible on quickbars. Improve chat. Add a disable smart camera. Improve chat and add chat bubbles = 80% done (or just implement WAR UI)

 

They have a laundry list of UI suggestions that have been posted, ad nauseum, since early closed beta. UI scale, color, font sizes everywhere, movable frames, chat bubbles, and much, much more have been suggested. We're going to get some of it. Probably.

 

(2): In TOR players keep seeing their character in full screen, character customization should be top notch. It's obviously too late for sliders but the issue can still be mitigated.

First add a 5th body choice (hopefully textures will fit or you are doomed)

Then add way more various and more realistic faces, hair, tattoos, piercings, eye color. First face pass has to be on the cyborgs mobs. They have to be totally redone. Ideally makeup and tattoo dyes would be added here or later on (see #9)

 

Multiple other MMO's have phenomenal character customization solutions. Multiple other BIOWARE titles *also* have at least reasonably complex character customization solutions. Why it's so massively simplified here is... disturbing.

 

(3): The mod system is too slow/too little. Game's look like clone wars. Pants won't always fit the chest. Add to that players need to dress up their character and theirs companions. Adding an appearance tab will allow player to look like the way they want to. It will increase the value and usability of all items. Players don't want anymore to be imposed how to look due to the item stats. The Appearance tab will also mitigate the lack of gear dyes and the hood issue.

 

The Clone Wars look was deliberate.

 

The item modification system is very tedious and clunky, though it's nothing I've given thought on how to improve. An appearance tab would be nice or at least an in-rest-zone clothing swap option could also serve a similar function.

 

(4): LFG (Looking for Groups). This is an MMO don't you want to encourage players to group with others? Already the chat features and the lack of text bubbles is an hindrance. A solid LFG, eventually cross server for PvP only, could tremendously help the game.

 

Repeated, ad nauseum, since early closed beta. The product should never have shipped with such a pathetic *lack* of a useful LFG system.

 

(5): Guild bank. Details of their functionality as needed by the guilds.

 

It's surprising that they didn't include such a feature, considering that guilds and groups are a cornerstone of the foundation of the MMO genre, and SWTOR, allegedly.

 

(6): Gear dyes. Mostly all AAA MMO have this. It become a basic feature, even more in a game in which, once again, you keep watching your character and other's toons in close ups. Note: GW2 will even have 3 dye able zones per items with a choice among a palette 400 colors.

 

I have mixed feelings on this one, as it removes some of the control of the artists and places them squarely in the user space. For that reason alone, they may nix the suggestion. You are correct that most AAA MMO's do seem to offer that feature, though, to some degree.

 

(7): Respeccing to switch from let's say solo PvE, to RAID, or PvP, even free is annoying. And, you obviously want to encourage players to group and enjoy the type of game play they're in the actual mood to enjoy not hinder them. It would also tremendously help mitigating the shortage of healers.

 

This goes towards advanced class cross-specialization abilities. They deliberately attempted to balance classes so some could transition from one role to the next, and perform reasonably well, as part of a "take the player, not the character" style of MMO class design philosophy. I don't think it worked, and you're right, we do need to switch specs in order to play a particular function well. They should allow for two or three specs to be maintained and interchanged at will.

 

(8): From AoC UI skins to WoW mods, you obviously want to add UI mods. You can delay player's expectations a bit with #1 but it won't last long.

 

They say they're looking into it, but this may be the most difficult request of all... simply because the HeroEngine is *NOT* designed with end-user modifications in mind. When they designed and built WoW and AoC, they were built to allow end-user modificaitons using a highly functional and portable scripting language. The HeroEngine isn't designed to expose limited sets of highly protected internal game information and provide limited game control functionality to end-user mods. It will be interesting to see what the future holds in store for SWTOR end-user mods... but I wouldn't hold my breath on them.

 

It's best to suggest specific functions that we'd like to see, and have BWA build them for us. Like combat meters, dummy targets, combat logs (coming soon), better healing tools, etc.

 

(9): Seeing their characters in full screen too often might annoy them in the long term. Most certainly the facial feature they loved when they created their character is getting old. While you want to encourage them to reroll another character, you don't want them to quit the game because they got fed up of it. So add a SWG like image designer feature in TOR. And I would go farther allowing players to, eventually, even be able to change their character's name, specie, and sex!

 

Interesting suggestion. Not sure how high priority something like that would be. A possibility might be to allow for character *cloning* once you reach a certain level or achievement... or where you can start new characters at higher level or with additional capabilities. Either way, it could get complex very quickly.

 

(10): It's supposed to be a WAR era. World PvPing should be available at low level, and everywhere an PvP servers. Stoned at medium term as needs a huge revamp

 

I personally dislike PVP, but you're correct; on PVP servers, PVP should be available just about everywhere.

 

(11): Pazaak, among others, will be a nice addition to provide more various divertissement to the player. It's a quick win. More time and $$$ consuming are pod/swoop racing. Also multiplayer Pazaak restricted to social zones could help socialization.

 

Sandbox elements, such as what we see in cantinas in the STAR WARS movies, should be available for us to participate in. These have been repeatedly mentioned to BWA, since early closed beta.

 

(12): Gear mods can still be used with appearance tabs. It will be a good way to keep players "grinding" mods to enhance their stuff, be it displayed or not. Also it works very well for weapons

 

Such as adding visible components that actually change an items design as seen in the game world?

 

(13): Multiplayer space sim/shooter is a must to have in TOR and it will make a great Xpack. It's a way to keep space sim fans longer and even bring more players in the game. It's also a nice alternative to ground combat, that would fill in the player's wishes for exploration and could be linked with ground content like smuggling missions. Personally I'd like an enhanced X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter but a BFII ++ could do the trick. Also if the space combat is too easy at all levels it will be boring fast. While a space sim would keep players subscribed just for it, as it did in SWG.

 

This suggestion was vehemently burned into the forums, since early closed beta first allowed space combat on rails to be tested. They should have done a space exploration, trading, and fighting sim, as part of the promised sandbox elements of SWTOR. I mean, just imagine... a smuggler... with a starship... actually able to smuggle cargo.

 

(14): It's STAR WARS not blue, green, red, grey, blind human wars. While the cost to make them is really high (New meshes and textures for all geear) New non humanoid species will be praised by many players. Also playable droids would be quite something.

 

Valid points.

 

(15): Day/Night cycles. They might never be added in the game, however actually players are looking forward having even seasons in their MMO with changing world. At least if you're adding new planets/zones, do build them from start with day/night cycles.

 

They chose to forgo any day/night cycles to keep specific art and lighting elements fixed for specific "moods". It was a valid choice, but in my opinion, a poor one. You are correct, these are supposed to be living worlds and environments, and should appropriately change according to appropriate cycles.

 

(16): Swimming is mostly for explorers, so who cares? However not only it helps immersion but GW2 swimming system is pretty sleek too. Could be added in a separate X-pack with underwater planets and news species.

 

Never quite understood why they forbid swimming. And fishing.

 

(17): Might look a bit odd, still while writing the new quests dialogs, please increase the quality for dark/light side choices and at least do not always add $$$ lines for non smugglers or BH.

 

Absolutely. Some of the dialogue choices for Light/Dark side options are occasionally... off.

 

(18): World events are here to entertain the players and from time to time remove them from story and V.O. They can really smoothen out the feeling of a game on RAILS.

 

Something should be done to allow players to go off the rails and just live in the space... oh wait... one of the devs arleady said that's what they planned on doing. Oops... they really didn't.

 

(19): Mobs AI is disappointing in this game. Too many mobs are standing still or not reacting really well in combat. Please keep working on it.

 

Which do you want? Realistic AI where 2 guys entering through an elevator kick off an alert and aggro the ENTIRE zone, because in real life, that's what would ultimately happen if you attacked a military installation? Or a manageable AI, as it mostly is now, with aggro ranges? Now, perhaps some mobs can be made to run and get help. You know... like some other MMO's had back in 2004...

 

(20): The game feels dead. Make NPC and non aggressive creatures move around, add world critters, more world sounds like birds singing. Help players think the world is alive!

 

Suggested back in early closed beta. And often since then. While I can understand the need for respawns and allowing others to kill for XP... they should at least *path* around. Every NPC should.

 

(21): Too often the dialogs option does not fit what the character is actually saying. It removes the control from the player's hands and makes him a spectator not an actor. So pass through ALL dialog options and make sure the 1-2-3 dialog fits the spoken lines: no more let's talk money option to end with: I want money upfront!

 

Early closed beta. Ad nauseum. It's actually gotten better. All they have to do is change the text, not the voiceover work.

 

(22): Character still feel like having a stick in the bottom, remove it or allow it to be more... flexible

 

Especially while running or hopping... because jumping seems to be out of the question.

 

(23): While it's a wild dream to expect something as deep as SWG housing system, first housing furnishing and then instanced planetary housing in NPC buildings, would not only add a new time sink but also help immersing the players in the world. On top of that you could add a new crafting & gathering profession. Finally it would be a good foundation for guild halls/ships

 

Guilds may indeed get a guild ship. I'd like them to start with intelligent features on ships... like "galactic Internet access" so we can access the GTN and our mail via a terminal. Or even the portable holoterminals we can carry...

 

(24): Sadly the in game shadows looks like 10+ years old. Even high resolution textures feeling will be hammered with them

 

This is partially the fault of the HeroEngine, BWA programmers, and graphics card manufacturers.

 

(25): The games does not look that bad but for a 2012 MMO the textures are looking poor. Even Wow, at first look, seems better. You need to be at least as good as others MMO.

 

1. The textures don't look bad, period. The art style is what I have the most problems with.

2. The textures are VERY poorly optimized.

3. The game, while cartoony to tax systems less, is often filled with insanely complex graphical objects, negating any benefit from the cartoony art style.

 

(26): People that want to re-roll a character will do it no matter what and people, for whatever reasons, that aren't into alts won't reroll characters. AC respecs is a way to give more options to, eventually bored, players and keep them subscribed in the long term.

 

Yet another reason to allow respecs. I like it.

 

(27): GTN UI revamp goes to the UI part, still this is a sci-fi MMO, we should be able to browse the GTN and our emails through our datapds from everywhere in the galaxy. At least the locations from which our holocom is working. Companions should post stuff on the GTN and be able to get items from our space ship for us. Items, for a fee should be directly delivered to our space ships.

 

GTN needs to be a functional auction house, not just one big "buy now" store. The UI that exists is barely functional; some features do NOT work, such as filters on items usable by a character or their companion.

 

(28): Travelling and zoning is really annoying. Or would I say killing the fun. Start seriously reducing the loading screens through space ships. Add more direct zoning and reduce the travel back timer. Also, make it so we can recall from one planet to another. And make it so it costs more credits in fuel to go from one planet to another (75c?) than from a point to another on a planet (Taxi = 330c???) BTW travelling between planets should be a big money sinks, at least if you are looking to add money sinks.

 

This may not be possible, and if it is, will likely be a major project, due to the nature of how the HeroEngine MMO development framework system handles environments.

 

(29): Crafting isn't really a side game play in an MMO. For some players it's the most important feature along say, running a business. In short make it so all professions are interesting from level 1 to after being caped and can make items on par with PvP and RAIDS.

 

The problem with crafting is its reliance on randomness. It's just about the absolute worse possible crafting system I've ever seen, simply because of the randomness thrown in there. What exists is a good foundation. We just need to be able to make a lot more, with whatever variation we want, possibly within some form of an item level/stat budget.

 

(30): 3D exploration. We have the force (jump), jetpacks, grappling hooks, speeders,... And we can't even climb up/down on things higher than 2 feets. At least for the new zones/planets design them with that in mind. Allow players to force leap to specific places (grin included). Let jet pack owners safely land from insane heights jump with timely jetpacks activation. Have players use grappling hooks to cross gaps. Make players actually climb up/down cliffs. Add unexplored (yet) underwater rivers with shining lights coming from crystals.

 

Theme Park. You can only go where they let you, only see what they want you to see. A massive dereliction from their original game direction, which was to seek a balance between Theme Park and Sandbox MMO game designs.

[Maxell_Snow]

actually it is fairly easy to associate a forum member to guild as the forum account has characters attached to it and those characters are in a guild and their rank in the guild is recorded.

 

Is it? No one changes guilds, quits guilds or moves about?

 

What does guild affiliation have to do with anything relevant to the game short of an easy way to dangle a shiney in front of a few people that will talk it up to more people?

 

Just because you are a guild leader does not mean you are best suited for discussing game mechanics with a dev team. Hence, why this strikes me as nothing more than a shiney to placate the masses...

[leik]

I wonder if Bioware will do what companies like Blizzard and SE had done and do large, non-invite only gatherings for people that play there game (cept for this year since there won't be any blizzcon lol)

[DTuloJr]

I wonder if Bioware will do what companies like Blizzard and SE had done and do large, non-invite only gatherings for people that play there game (cept for this year since there won't be any blizzcon lol)

 

I'm sure there will be some representation at the next STAR WARS Celebration event, and I can see them as part of EA/BioWare's contingent at Comic Con. Whether that will grow to a dedicated convention with a life of its own is up to BWA... It's certainly possible. Perhaps that will also be a topic at The Event.

[The-Jedi]

Today, we are pleased to announce the first ever Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Guild Summit, being hosted in Austin, TX in March. Over the course of a few days, guild leaders from around the world will gather together to discuss the state of the game with the developers from BioWare Austin. Guild leaders (or a designated officer in the event of a guild leader being unable to attend) will participate in Q&A sessions with developers, roundtable feedback discussions, and will get a preview of some upcoming game features.

 

Read More

 

Thank you BioWare for this opportunity to attend the summit.

 

However due to a vast majority most likely not being able to attend, I have a question. Seeing there must be many well developed guilds and a vast majority of guild leaders being quite experienced players and have lead a few guilds on popular games or lead one for years on a MMO before. I would like to ask if you would accept written suggestions from these guild leaders maybe say 2 pages long telling what is needed for the guilds in TOR from PVE to PVP and guild wars? What's missing in TOR and what may need tweeking a bit for guilds.

 

I just thought seeing space is limited and a lot of people can't go anyways, why not a written comment and suggestion essay from these experienced guild leaders?

 

Thank you,

The-Jedi

[Kestrin]

Would it not be better to have it on line for the guild masters who cannot attend for what ever reason? With the present set up, not all guilds can be represented, nor their ideas. Is Bioware trying to filter negative possibilities?

I can afford to go but will not apply. If I am go travel a great distance it will be for a wonderful vacation. I see this blowing up in Bioware's face. Keep it to the net.

[Thug-Ra]

Today, we are pleased to announce the first ever Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ Guild Summit, being hosted in Austin, TX in March. Over the course of a few days, guild leaders from around the world will gather together to discuss the state of the game with the developers from BioWare Austin. Guild leaders (or a designated officer in the event of a guild leader being unable to attend) will participate in Q&A sessions with developers, roundtable feedback discussions, and will get a preview of some upcoming game features.

 

Read More

 

(Preface: Long reply incoming.)

 

With all due respect, I must point out that this feels like a complete disaster. There are better ways to gather player feedback, and far better ways to choose the game's direction.

 

First, you're only inviting guild leaders. Guild leaders don't necessarily represent or even know what players want from the game. In fact, having played 8 MMOs, and been a guild leader in one, I'll posit that you're *extremely* unlikely to get a statistical sample of what players want just by surveying leaders.

 

The reality is, such a conference will be dominated by one group: Hardcore guild leaders. By definition, casual guild leaders take games less seriously, and are thus unlikely to even hold strong opinions on the endgame. In fact they're unlikely to even attend, as most casual players (including guild leaders) have other things to think about, and can't (or won't) plan gaming-related trips on only a month's notice.

 

So what you're actually doing is calling out for hardcore neckbeards to show up and seethe with nerd rage about why the game isn't micromanaged in their favor.

 

That's exactly what's going to happen, and exactly what you're going to hear.

 

I can even predict what they'll tell you. The reality is, hardcore guilds, and hardcore guild leaders, want exactly one thing: Raids, raids raids. If you listen to their guild leaders, that's all you'll ever wind up making. They really think that gaming is about gathering a huge number of people and standing around dodging ground effects, and many are so detached from reality that they think this grants them a sort of real-life prestige.

 

There's no evidence that *most* players even *want* a raid-focused endgame in a Star Wars themed MMO. If you think that a majority of your player base sees Star Wars as "group up tightly on the Rancor's arse while dodging acid pools", you're sorely mistaken. You will hear that at your conference, certainly -- but that doesn't make it true.

 

To be blunt, Bioware, this idea completely ignores human nature. Casual players don't have time to go to a guild conference, most players don't have the resources, and the players who have both time, resources, and interest are exactly the sort of grognards designers shouldn't listen to. Expect precisely this: a bunch of Mongos with trust funds and personality disorders who live in mom's basement, demanding more raids, more tiers of gear accessible only to them, and possibly arena systems.

 

If you want meaningful input on game direction, don't ask the Mongos. Ask ALL the players. Look at what other MMOs are doing RIGHT. Find out what people want SPECIFICALLY from a Star Wars game. There's no shame in asking your player base for suggestions via. surveys, or even putting such requests in Account Management. An optional survey on "what would you like to see?" is a great idea.

 

But don't do a "Guild Summit". It'll lead to exactly the same mistake that Blizzard made with Cataclysm -- thinking a few noisy neckbeards speak for the whole of the player base. They don't. Listening to them means creating stinking turds of content that most people never see, and then players simply get frustrated and leave. And that costs millions of players -- a mistake you can't afford to make with a game two months old.

 

I don't mean to sound like such a pessimist, but consider this fair warning given. This won't have the result you think it will. There are great ways to go about asking what players want. This is the opposite.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Thug-Ra

[Imperialnavy]

I just thought seeing space is limited and a lot of people can't go anyways, why not a written comment and suggestion essay from these experienced guild leaders?

 

I echo this... although, I think there should be something more that just a 2 page "suggestion box". Live web chat, or normal chat for those (like me) without a web-cam, a specificly directed questionnaire for submission, and so on.

 

There are plenty of guild leaders, other than just myself, who have some ideas but need to have a conversation to "form" them as opposed to the forums where my thoughts won't necessarily coincide with what Bioware wants to ask at this summit. Oh, and if i can ask my guildies, who are also MMO vets, then their opinions can be shared as well.

 

Something like this should be inclusive, not exclusive.

[Imperialnavy]

To be blunt, Bioware, this idea completely ignores human nature. Casual players don't have time to go to a guild conference, most players don't have the resources, and the players who have both time, resources, and interest are exactly the sort of grognards designers shouldn't listen to. Expect precisely this: a bunch of Mongos with trust funds and personality disorders who live in mom's basement, demanding more raids, more tiers of gear accessible only to them, and possibly arena systems.

 

If you want meaningful input on game direction, don't ask the Mongos. Ask ALL the players. Look at what other MMOs are doing RIGHT. Find out what people want SPECIFICALLY from a Star Wars game. There's no shame in asking your player base for suggestions via. surveys, or even putting such requests in Account Management. An optional survey on "what would you like to see?" is a great idea.

 

Amen, brother.

[xxJadestormxx]

Devs,

I'm an officer in a guild on the Eidolon Security server. I think its a great idea to have a guild summit but since I can't afford the trip, I'd like to post my comments, questions and suggestions here...hoping that they will get represented at the summit. Keep up the great work!

 

1. Guild Log: something that lists particular metrics for each player and a timestamp that it happened. Metrics include: player logins/logoffs, guild join/leave, level up, guild bank deposits/withdrawals, promotions/demotions, significant events such as boss kills. Guild officers should have the ability to select which metrics they want logged and how long they want the log to be kept for. Some metrics should be permanent such as date joined.

 

2. Guild Bank: I know its incoming, hopefully guild officers will be able to lock sections of it down and specify which player ranks have access to each section. See #1 ref a guild log for bank activity.

 

3. Upgrade the Guild Tab, specifically: add "Date Joined" as a column that auto-populates with the date the person joined the guild. Add "Last Played" as a column that auto-populates with the date when the person was last in the game. Expand the guild description text box (allow more text). Expand the member and officer note sections (allow more text)

 

4. Guild Calendar: an ingame calendar that can be edited by guild officers to annotate raid dates, important get together's or even player birthdates.

 

5. Add an in-game email contact list for guild members. As a guild officer I'd like to send in-game emails to members who have accomplished something, as well as send emails to ALL guild members for certain things (the same concept as receiving an email from an NPC after a quest is completed). It's extremely difficult to do this without a contact list to choose names from.

 

6. A guild webpage on the SWTOR server, similar to what would be provided by a third-party provider such as Guild Portal that can then be modified and updated by a guild officer. I know this isn't practical considering the number of four man guilds that get created, or the guilds that get created and then go defunct however it could be provided once a guild reaches a certain size (100 members) or accomoplishes a particular in-game feat (defeat a certain mob).

 

7. Guild Levels. Guilds should have levels the same way characters have levels. There can be daily quests, FP's and OP's that provide guild level experience. If a guild member completes one of these quests, they get personal XP as well as XP that goes toward the Guild level. Alternatively it could function the same way the Legacy XP is working, in that a small portion of each guild members XP also goes to the guild level. Having a guild level would also set up for my next recommendation....

 

8. Guild Perks. There should be perks that can be earned by the guild such as temporary raid buffs, social items, etc.

 

9. Guild Housing/Capital Ship. A place that the guild can call home, linger and socialize. With access to class trainers, cargo holds, GTN, and mailboxes.

 

10. A "Player Looking for Guild / Guild Looking for Player" menu that could list which guilds are recruiting and even specify which classes / levels they are looking for. The menu could allow guilds to enter a guild description and it could also list recruiting officers for the guild that a player can then contact in game.

 

11. Guild Smart Phone App that allows you to interface with (or at least view) your guild's functions while away from the game.

 

Thats all I can think of "off the top of my head". I played Everquest, Everquest 2, AION and WOW. Several of these recommendations are from EQ2's guild system. Thanks for all your efforts to date on such a great game!!

[Elkard]

deleted Edited February 7, 2012 by Elkard
Comment misunderstood

[Fiachsidhe]

(Preface: Long reply incoming.)

 

With all due respect, I must point out that this feels like a complete disaster. There are better ways to gather player feedback, and far better ways to choose the game's direction.

 

First, you're only inviting guild leaders. Guild leaders don't necessarily represent or even know what players want from the game. In fact, having played 8 MMOs, and been a guild leader in one, I'll posit that you're *extremely* unlikely to get a statistical sample of what players want just by surveying leaders.

 

The reality is, such a conference will be dominated by one group: Hardcore guild leaders. By definition, casual guild leaders take games less seriously, and are thus unlikely to even hold strong opinions on the endgame. In fact they're unlikely to even attend, as most casual players (including guild leaders) have other things to think about, and can't (or won't) plan gaming-related trips on only a month's notice.

 

So what you're actually doing is calling out for hardcore neckbeards to show up and seethe with nerd rage about why the game isn't micromanaged in their favor.

 

That's exactly what's going to happen, and exactly what you're going to hear.

 

I can even predict what they'll tell you. The reality is, hardcore guilds, and hardcore guild leaders, want exactly one thing: Raids, raids raids. If you listen to their guild leaders, that's all you'll ever wind up making. They really think that gaming is about gathering a huge number of people and standing around dodging ground effects, and many are so detached from reality that they think this grants them a sort of real-life prestige.

 

There's no evidence that *most* players even *want* a raid-focused endgame in a Star Wars themed MMO. If you think that a majority of your player base sees Star Wars as "group up tightly on the Rancor's arse while dodging acid pools", you're sorely mistaken. You will hear that at your conference, certainly -- but that doesn't make it true.

 

To be blunt, Bioware, this idea completely ignores human nature. Casual players don't have time to go to a guild conference, most players don't have the resources, and the players who have both time, resources, and interest are exactly the sort of grognards designers shouldn't listen to. Expect precisely this: a bunch of Mongos with trust funds and personality disorders who live in mom's basement, demanding more raids, more tiers of gear accessible only to them, and possibly arena systems.

 

If you want meaningful input on game direction, don't ask the Mongos. Ask ALL the players. Look at what other MMOs are doing RIGHT. Find out what people want SPECIFICALLY from a Star Wars game. There's no shame in asking your player base for suggestions via. surveys, or even putting such requests in Account Management. An optional survey on "what would you like to see?" is a great idea.

 

But don't do a "Guild Summit". It'll lead to exactly the same mistake that Blizzard made with Cataclysm -- thinking a few noisy neckbeards speak for the whole of the player base. They don't. Listening to them means creating stinking turds of content that most people never see, and then players simply get frustrated and leave. And that costs millions of players -- a mistake you can't afford to make with a game two months old.

 

I don't mean to sound like such a pessimist, but consider this fair warning given. This won't have the result you think it will. There are great ways to go about asking what players want. This is the opposite.

 

Extremely well said. But I honestly believe:

1. This summit is less about feedback, and more about buttering up the fewest people with the widest player-to-player influence, and appealing to mass media.

2. Bioware believes this is a good idea, and won't back down.

 

If Bioware ignored (READ: failed to act on) beta testers' advice, their own PTR and Suggestion forums, etc. What makes people think they'll do anything after this?

The problem isn't that they aren't listening, it's that they're failing to do the right thing with the info.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Fiachsidhe

[Zikcar]

This will just be some PR nonsense.

 

Yep that is all that these ever really are.

[Zikcar]

(Preface: Long reply incoming.)

 

With all due respect, I must point out that this feels like a complete disaster. There are better ways to gather player feedback, and far better ways to choose the game's direction.

 

First, you're only inviting guild leaders. Guild leaders don't necessarily represent or even know what players want from the game. In fact, having played 8 MMOs, and been a guild leader in one, I'll posit that you're *extremely* unlikely to get a statistical sample of what players want just by surveying leaders.

 

The reality is, such a conference will be dominated by one group: Hardcore guild leaders. By definition, casual guild leaders take games less seriously, and are thus unlikely to even hold strong opinions on the endgame. In fact they're unlikely to even attend, as most casual players (including guild leaders) have other things to think about, and can't (or won't) plan gaming-related trips on only a month's notice.

 

So what you're actually doing is calling out for hardcore neckbeards to show up and seethe with nerd rage about why the game isn't micromanaged in their favor.

 

That's exactly what's going to happen, and exactly what you're going to hear.

 

I can even predict what they'll tell you. The reality is, hardcore guilds, and hardcore guild leaders, want exactly one thing: Raids, raids raids. If you listen to their guild leaders, that's all you'll ever wind up making. They really think that gaming is about gathering a huge number of people and standing around dodging ground effects, and many are so detached from reality that they think this grants them a sort of real-life prestige.

 

There's no evidence that *most* players even *want* a raid-focused endgame in a Star Wars themed MMO. If you think that a majority of your player base sees Star Wars as "group up tightly on the Rancor's arse while dodging acid pools", you're sorely mistaken. You will hear that at your conference, certainly -- but that doesn't make it true.

 

To be blunt, Bioware, this idea completely ignores human nature. Casual players don't have time to go to a guild conference, most players don't have the resources, and the players who have both time, resources, and interest are exactly the sort of grognards designers shouldn't listen to. Expect precisely this: a bunch of Mongos with trust funds and personality disorders who live in mom's basement, demanding more raids, more tiers of gear accessible only to them, and possibly arena systems.

 

If you want meaningful input on game direction, don't ask the Mongos. Ask ALL the players. Look at what other MMOs are doing RIGHT. Find out what people want SPECIFICALLY from a Star Wars game. There's no shame in asking your player base for suggestions via. surveys, or even putting such requests in Account Management. An optional survey on "what would you like to see?" is a great idea.

 

But don't do a "Guild Summit". It'll lead to exactly the same mistake that Blizzard made with Cataclysm -- thinking a few noisy neckbeards speak for the whole of the player base. They don't. Listening to them means creating stinking turds of content that most people never see, and then players simply get frustrated and leave. And that costs millions of players -- a mistake you can't afford to make with a game two months old.

 

I don't mean to sound like such a pessimist, but consider this fair warning given. This won't have the result you think it will. There are great ways to go about asking what players want. This is the opposite.

 

Well said i agree 100%

[SlayerofSpace]

Why don't Bioware have all guild leader's willing to discuss on Star Wars The Old Republic be seen on different days throughout a number of days and pay a portion for each leader or member representing their guild. And then decide what to do after this,this way every guild has a chance to be heard before set in stone of what they want. There should be no free rides cause everyone would love those but it's expensive and not fair for those who have to pay full expense vs those who pay nothing.

[Laurien-Wriroh]

Well said i agree 100%

 

I second that and don't want a raid focused game...

[drfirewater]

Of course only guilds that can afford to travel or live in the austin area are being taken seriously ... well that sucks ...

 

but pay for the ticket and I am sure i will see all you BW folks in march

Edited February 6, 2012 by drfirewater

[drfirewater]

I second that and don't want a raid focused game...

 

While i agree raid focused game would suck ... hard mode flashpoints are a drag if you dont have the gear to play them. I think that there needs to be other ways to get tinonesse gear .... they need to add more dalies and dalies that are heroic 2 or higher should be dropping tionese crystals and there should be a place to trade in tionese crystals for comendations 10 to 1 trade value ... just like the pvp tokens.

[Dragonexadon]

While i agree raid focused game would suck ... hard mode flashpoints are a drag if you dont have the gear to play them. I think that there needs to be other ways to get tinonesse gear .... they need to add more dalies and dalies that are heroic 2 or higher should be dropping tionese crystals and there should be a place to trade in tionese crystals for comendations 10 to 1 trade value ... just like the pvp tokens.

 

I rather them just increase the Tinonesse dropped per boss or decrease the cost of Tinonesse gear.

[Kerrunch]

Great idea.

 

I just hope that BioWare knows how to filter out the pleas for making the game easy and more candy like.

 

 

Games should be challenging in order to keep our interest.

Fast easy leveling, pretty gear and giant flashy mounts do not present a challenge. Yet, this is notoriously what gamers ask for.

 

Games like WoW have been totally destroyed because the developers gave the players what they think they want.

[Kerrunch]

Wow, time to close this thing down. I've played many games, to top level, getting nice perks, but have rarely seen guilds doing anything together. For games to boast hundreds + guilds, there seems to be little activity besides people taking advantage of guild banks and exploiting items. Guild Leader summit to explore the direction of the game as a whole, going on the assumption that guilds represent a huge player base--don't forget all those alts in the guilds. Reckon some dialog must have a form of focus, but it does alienate others who do quite well Pugging without guilds. It is also funny--as when playing I am often on 12+ hours at a time--to see so many guilded people soloing everything, or spamming LFG.

 

Perhaps in the future you can "figure" out a way to hear the voices of those who actually play the game--I mean the entire game and content. Good luck with that summit; I'm sure it will be productive. Just remember how CU (Combat downgrades) and NGEs have destroyed the fun for most games in the past.

 

I enjoy your, don't downgrade the game, ideal but please don't degrade the team/guild efforts.

 

Your sound like a solo gamer whining about people not getting together and yet you don't join up with them? Have you even tried to be a part of a guild?

 

I've played a few MMO's now and I've been a part of guilds that do a lot together. I've quested/leveled with fellow guild members, completed many instances in full guild groups, completed raids as part of a guild group...

 

Please don't come qq about your desire to play solo and not be represented. Join a guild and maybe you can go to Austin as the rep.