Hardmode bosses need mechanics not unfairness

[HellFlame]

if you cant make it in time you are just bad and dont have the gear or the skills for it, Enrage timers are there to make sure you got A) the skills to kill the boss or B) the gear to kill the boss, L2P ****, ppl like you are the reason Operations and raids is getting nerfed back to the *********** stoneage..............................

 

^ This.

[AlyII]

if you cant make it in time you are just bad and dont have the gear or the skills for it, Enrage timers are there to make sure you got A) the skills to kill the boss or B) the gear to kill the boss, L2P ****, ppl like you are the reason Operations and raids is getting nerfed back to the *********** stoneage..............................

 

If you can't make it in time is not because you are bad , you don't have the skill or the gear , but because your group doesn't meet the required dps in "x" amount of time, forcing you to have only a certain group composition. Ppl like you who think that they are "skilled", "geared" and "good" are making the mmo communities worse.

[AlyII]

Most of the Hard mode bosses do have mechanics...

 

The only ones I have seen enrage are doing so because there was not enough DPS in the group, or in the case of Hk-47 in Foundry which is pretty much the mechanic of the fight (and is quite challenging !)

 

While I agree that enrage timers are a shoddy way to cap encounters, it also serves its purpose to not allow people to "brute force" their way through content, which personally I am happy about.

 

 

If the devs wanted "not to allow people to "brute force" their way through content" they could simply use minimum gear requirement to enter in HM flaspoints, not enrage timers that wipe the whole group in seconds.

Edited February 17, 2012 by AlyII

[Onnya]

"if you cant make it in time you are just bad and dont have the gear or the skills for it, Enrage timers are there to make sure you got A) the skills to kill the boss or B) the gear to kill the boss, L2P ****, ppl like you are the reason Operations and raids is getting nerfed back to the *********** stoneage.............................. "

 

Sorry Xanxari, but I think you misunderstand: most people postig here have done the HM modes, have managed to make in time (so the skill and the gear are there), but they just don't like it, as it is restricting and you can only do these with a certain group composition.

 

Just try doing it with two tanks or with two healers or with a companion (since they do count against party size) and you'll see that you are incredibly limited.

 

I think it's exactly the opposite of "fun"to have to tell one of your guild mates "you're not coming tonight with us because you are the wrong class/spec", and then you don't do anything for the night because the "right class" is missing. And you don't even have dual spec...

 

I don't want ops and flashes to be nerfed, I just want to have more options, to have flashes scaled to the number of players and dual spec. From that to enrage timers that make flashes a dps rush...there's a looong looong way.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Onnya

[HellFlame]

The only REASON you need DPS is ENRAGE.

 

Please close this useless threads about enrage timers. If you dont like it just dont play it, otherwise just accept it. stop QQ'ing...

 

If you would ever think 1 second about what ur asking then you would realize that its completly stupid.

[AlyII]

The only REASON you need DPS is ENRAGE.

 

Please close this useless threads about enrage timers. If you dont like it just dont play it, otherwise just accept it. stop QQ'ing...

 

If you would ever think 1 second about what ur asking then you would realize that its completly stupid.

 

Thank you for enlightening us, now, because of you we do realize that what we are asking is completly stupid. If you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread keep your valuable opinions to yourself.

[Loendar]

"if you cant make it in time you are just bad and dont have the gear or the skills for it, Enrage timers are there to make sure you got A) the skills to kill the boss or B) the gear to kill the boss, L2P ****, ppl like you are the reason Operations and raids is getting nerfed back to the *********** stoneage.............................. "

 

Sorry Xanxari, but I think you misunderstand: most people postig here have done the HM modes, have managed to make in time (so the skill and the gear are there), but they just don't like it, as it is restricting and you can only do these with a certain group composition.

 

Just try doing it with two tanks or with two healers or with a companion (since they do count against party size) and you'll see that you are incredibly limited.

 

I think it's exactly the opposite of "fun"to have to tell one of your guild mates "you're not coming tonight with us because you are the wrong class/spec", and then you don't do anything for the night because the "right class" is missing. And you don't even have dual spec...

 

I don't want ops and flashes to be nerfed, I just want to have more options, to have flashes scaled to the number of players and dual spec. From that to enrage timers that make flashes a dps rush...there's a looong looong way.

 

 

^ This

[Loendar]

The only REASON you need DPS is ENRAGE.

 

Please close this useless threads about enrage timers. If you dont like it just dont play it, otherwise just accept it. stop QQ'ing...

 

If you would ever think 1 second about what ur asking then you would realize that its completly stupid.

 

Not really much of a 'big picture' thinker, eh?

 

That's okay - we can't all be troubled to think about stuff when it's easier to mash the keys.

[HellFlame]

Anyways whats ur progression on nightmare mode?

 

There are exactly 2 bosses where u actually can hit enrage even on nightmare. 1 is soa, 2 is jarg and sorno. I think thats pretty much it. (jarg and sorno only because if you kill one the other gonna enrage and its kinda hard to kill them exactly at the same millisecond)

Edited February 17, 2012 by Notannos
rude

[AlyII]

Thank you again HellFlame for your advice, your language and posts show us how mature you are. Edited February 17, 2012 by AlyII

[Xaearth]

I just want to say, all you carebear bad DPS clinging to dear life for your lolbad security blanket enrage timers to make you feel good about yourselves, just remember this:

 

You're the ones that need a tank and healer.

 

Those of us with some semblance of skill find the thought of endgame content that amounts to something more than a gang**** on the guy banging his head against a brick wall to be a bit more fun and challenging.

 

(I really am a jerk when I'm sick, aren't I. )

 

Hell, if it gets all of you so hot and bothered that 4 healers may spend 15 hours to get your phat lootz, remove the enrage and tie loot to the timer. You could even make it so that times significantly higher than the norm yield more loot, give a bit of an average range for normal loot drops, and have the number of drops trail off as you reach ridiculous amounts of time spent on a single encounter.

 

The key here is giving players the choice of restricting themselves, of challenging themselves, is almost as great as giving players the chance to create their own content.

 

The same routine content is no longer the same routine content when you run with everyone completely nekkid (no gear).

The same routine content is no longer the same routine content when you run without a tank and/or healer.

The same routine content is no longer the same routine content when you take a shot of alcohol every time someone does something stupid and/or dies.

 

When failure is a direct consequence of not sticking to "the plan" the developers had for that encounter, when each second of optimal DPS lost brings you closer and closer to enrage, players don't have that option of challenging themselves and reinventing stale content.

 

Well they do have the option, but...

You can challenge a rock to fly, but that doesn't mean it isn't a stupid pointless waste of time.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Xaearth

[HellFlame]

Thank you again HellFlame for your advice, your language and posts show us how mature you are.

 

Yeah. Cant even clear normal and so you asking for removal of enrage or what?

 

Gosh.

 

If bioware would actually focus on something useful rather than listening to people like you... i guess we would have a good game...

 

You cant even clear the bosses without hitting enrage when you dont even need to follow the mechanics on like the half of the encounters. OK.

 

I showed that thread to a few people on my server and all started laughing because they found it that funny.

 

Please flag all my posts doesnt change the facts...

 

Close this thread bioware TY... its pointless. I hope they do realize if 1.2 bring something which gets killed in a few hours again they gonna lose most of the good ppl.

Edited February 17, 2012 by HellFlame

[Daeromas]

Because gear is the only factor that goes into this game right? Reaction time and keeping tight rotations play no role in the matter right? Do you just think everyone is a robot that follows all the basic assumptions that they know the best builds and rotations?

<snip>

 

Don't talk about this game and rotations lol, spamming 3-4 buttons for doesn't qualify. This game was and is made for casuals.

 

And best builds? Unless you make a hybrid, you only have like 9 points to go into another tree. Nothing that will make a big difference.

 

Yes, gear is the main factor, that and knowing the mechanics of the fights.

[Retadine]

Enrage mechanics are nothing new. It's meant as a gear check. Without enrage, boss fights will just become marathons. Perfect example was Heigan (a raid boss) in WoW. This boss had no enrage timers but instead had a "dance" mechanic. If 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps knew the dance, you can bring down this boss in a marathon 10-15 mins. Ya it shows that the 3 guys going after Heigan is really skilled, but the other people in the raid might as well just afk for that time and afk is no fun.

 

You need some sort of enrage, hard or soft, to prevent fights from going on forever.

[Daeromas]

Enrage mechanics are nothing new. It's meant as a gear check. Without enrage, boss fights will just become marathons. Perfect example was Heigan (a raid boss) in WoW. This boss had no enrage timers but instead had a "dance" mechanic. If 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 dps knew the dance, you can bring down this boss in a marathon 10-15 mins. Ya it shows that the 3 guys going after Heigan is really skilled, but the other people in the raid might as well just afk for that time and afk is no fun.

 

You need some sort of enrage, hard or soft, to prevent fights from going on forever.

 

Forsure.

 

Don't know why it's difficult for people to understand.

[Baconmonster]

I said in that post that a group dynamic within reason. Two tanks, DPS and a healer should be a viable group. Two of ANY one archetype should be a viable group if they are geared to the appropriate tier for their class type. So, no - all heal, all tank, all DPS should continue to be fail.

 

Right now, even if you are geared appropriately with a tank/tank/dps/heal (not OVER geared - this is important) you will hit the enrage timer and likely wipe. Swap that tank for a comparable level DPS and it's win. I've done this recently on a few HM to test and it is a consistent pattern. The enrage timer is a pure DPS check, not a GEAR check and it remove the dynamic element of group composition from the game.

 

 

 

 

Maybe YOUR group can but you are also raiding so your gear is already over the threshold for HM FP's and one would argue you shouldn't be running them at all as there is no gain. You shouldn't be the target audience for them because you are over-geared which makes the enrage timer a non-issue. You aren't the target for these encounters and they shouldn't be tailored to your gear level.

 

 

 

That's fine - I can handle people disagreeing with me. In the right group mix (tank/heal/DPS/DPS) I agree that these are simple. Until I started playing with the group mix to 'put my money where my mouth is' I didn't hit the enrage timers. But I still felt they were a bad mechanic and my personal testing of them is showing that to be an accurate statement. They are a poorly designed roadblock to anyone that doesn't match the exact spec Bioware has decided upon .. and assuming the point of the game is to progress AND have fun - it is failing on both of those items for many.

 

 

 

 

Everyone starts off scrubby in a new game - everyone has room to get better. I raid in another game (not WoW) and every expansion the entire raid force is thrust back into scrub mode until you can gear up in the new content. It's the way of things and anyone that can, with a straight face, claim to be on top of their game 100 percent of the time isn't someone I'm willing to debate with.

 

On a side note: I would like to thank you Baconmonster for expressing yourself clearly and concisely (and without taking things out of context from my posts). It is refreshing to actually have a dialogue on this subject with someone on the other side without a lot of the 'you suck' and 'L2P' crap.

 

Appreciate that. I frankly on the forums have made too many posts as knee jerk reactions to something someone said. I have started to really take time posting and It's nice to have a back and forth with someone who I don't agree with so that I can understand how they feel and where they are coming from without me simply blowing up at them. Fair points on all accounts with this post. I personally just wish for harder encounters, maybe it's just because I love doing the mentor fight so much that I'm still doing HMs >.<. Really hope they can recreate that type of fun in the future ops/HMs they make.

[AlyII]

Yeah. Cant even clear normal and so you asking for removal of enrage or what?

 

Gosh.

 

If bioware would actually focus on something useful rather than listening to people like you... i guess we would have a good game...

 

You cant even clear the bosses without hitting enrage when you dont even need to follow the mechanics on like the half of the encounters. OK.

 

I showed that thread to a few people on my server and all started laughing because they found it that funny.

 

Please flag all my posts doesnt change the facts...

 

Close this thread bioware TY... its pointless. I hope they do realize if 1.2 bring something which gets killed in a few hours again they gonna lose most of the good ppl.

 

 

First of all I never said that we didn't finish the normal flashpoints, or the HM flashpoints, but that enrage timers narrow down the players options and force us to have only a certain group structure that we didn't enjoy, leaving behind a friend I would have liked to play with, but couldn't because he didn't have the right class/spec. Simply the idea of negatively motivating players through punishment if they don't get enough DPS in a certain amount of time seems rather abusive and I would have found it a much better way to have positive motivation, through extra rewards/achievements or titles if you could make it in time.

[mArchangel]

Yeah. Cant even clear normal and so you asking for removal of enrage or what?

 

Gosh.

 

If bioware would actually focus on something useful rather than listening to people like you... i guess we would have a good game...

 

You cant even clear the bosses without hitting enrage when you dont even need to follow the mechanics on like the half of the encounters. OK.

 

I showed that thread to a few people on my server and all started laughing because they found it that funny.

 

Please flag all my posts doesnt change the facts...

 

Close this thread bioware TY... its pointless. I hope they do realize if 1.2 bring something which gets killed in a few hours again they gonna lose most of the good ppl.

 

Ok. After a few days away from this post I originally created I come back and see this ****? Let me break it to you. This is not about what peeps can do and what they cannot. Noone ever said we cannot get the bosses down without enrage-it's the fact that the way enrage works sucks. Not as bad as you mind you. Oh yeah and your server full elitist jerks that have lost ANY kind of connection to the fun in playing a GAME. Bet you are the 'go go go' - 'nuke nuke nuke' server gang. Seriously my friend let me say it in clear words for me to invoke my first infringement: YOU ARE THE GREATEST IDIOT I HAVE EVER HEARD OPENING HIS UNEDUCATED MOUTH ON HERE! And that ends that. Now go back to your elitist uber-inquisitor loaded guild and leave us here to discuss this properly. And difficult does not equal good. But again this is throwing pearls in front of the pigs as you are surely anyway not even able to comprehend that. As for BioWare risking to loose people like YOU if they change all of this into something better: BIOWARE PLEASE CHANGE THIS AND RID US OF HIM AND HIS PEERS! LMAO Good night.

Edited February 19, 2012 by mArchangel

[mArchangel]

if you cant make it in time you are just bad and dont have the gear or the skills for it, Enrage timers are there to make sure you got A) the skills to kill the boss or B) the gear to kill the boss, L2P ****, ppl like you are the reason Operations and raids is getting nerfed back to the *********** stoneage..............................

 

One word: Idiotic!

 

Another one of those L2P comments. Noone ever said we could not do it. Noone ever said we do not want enrage timers. WE WANT DIFFERENT THINGS TO HAPPEN WHEN ENRAGE HITS RATHER THAN A MASSIVE DPS BURST OF THE BOSS.

 

What is the *********** matter with you guys? Are you all dislexic??

[mArchangel]

If you can't make it in time is not because you are bad , you don't have the skill or the gear , but because your group doesn't meet the required dps in "x" amount of time, forcing you to have only a certain group composition. Ppl like you who think that they are "skilled", "geared" and "good" are making the mmo communities worse.

 

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Such people do not want or need a community. They are too cool for school! LOL

[Shinavast]

The only HM boss that's routinely worked our butts has been the Sith Entity bonus boss in HM False Emperor. We're still building our gear up but geez when that final entity spawns he automatically enrages and kicks our butts.

 

 

Yeah Sith Entity's enrage timer is ridiculous. A lot of times I see groups skip him if they are not pretty well geared / gearing fresh or fresher 50's.

[Columns]

I really don't see the issue here. It's not like other mechanics don't exist; there are plenty of compelling mechanics. Enrage timers are just a somewhat uninteresting and ubiquitous one, which if anything brings an added dimension of difficulty to the other more interesting mechanics that might otherwise be trivial.

 

Also, the whole "enrage timers are just a gear check" argument doesn't make sense at all. You are playing an mmo where 90% of endgame is advancing your character through gear. Would you make the same arguments about leveling? That is, would you argue that lvl 50 FPs are just a level check, and that an appropriately skilled lvl 20 should be able to complete them? I didn't think so.

[Frozenshiva]

One word: Idiotic!

 

Another one of those L2P comments. Noone ever said we could not do it. Noone ever said we do not want enrage timers. WE WANT DIFFERENT THINGS TO HAPPEN WHEN ENRAGE HITS RATHER THAN A MASSIVE DPS BURST OF THE BOSS.

 

What is the *********** matter with you guys? Are you all dislexic??

Noone and dislexic don't exist. No one and dyslexic do.

 

Can you please leave this topic now? You're the one not adding anything to it beyond petty immature childish insults.

You made the topic, kudos to you. However you haven't added anything meaningful since then beyond insults to everyone who doesn't agree with you.

If you are as mature as you pretend to be, you'd notice that by now.

 

This topic isn't about enrages anymore, it's about welfare epics. Put in as little effort as possible and reap maximum rewards. At least that's what you are saying in your comments, likely without even realizing it in your rant.

[ckoneful]

I couldn't get past page 10/11, there's just so much stupid in this thread....

 

I don't get what's wrong with having mechanics while also having to push your class/dps to the limit at the same time? I'd say playing ****tily but dodging mechanics is a boring and horrible way to play but it sounds like what most of the dribble in this thread wants.

 

Also, before the OP changed his post he was complaining enrage timers were too hard as I remember as I was the first reply to this thread. I walked into a HM D7 yesterday with a fresh 50 tank and a fresh 50 gunslinger(me) and 2 guildies, 1 a columi geared healer and the other a columi geared healer specced for a DPS spec he never played before...

 

Guess what? We wiped once, and only once, to the entire place and only hit 1 enrage timer on bulwark and that was @ 2%.

 

Stop playing bad and as I do hate to say this but it's needed here "L2P"

Edited February 19, 2012 by ckoneful

[Loendar]

I couldn't get past page 10/11, there's just so much stupid in this thread....

 

I don't get what's wrong with having mechanics while also having to push your class/dps to the limit at the same time? I'd say playing ****tily but dodging mechanics is a boring and horrible way to play but it sounds like what most of the dribble in this thread wants.

 

Also, before the OP changed his post he was complaining enrage timers were too hard as I remember as I was the first reply to this thread. I walked into a HM D7 yesterday with a fresh 50 tank and a fresh 50 gunslinger(me) and 2 guildies, 1 a columi geared healer and the other a columi geared healer specced for a DPS spec he never played before...

 

Guess what? We wiped once, and only once, to the entire place and only hit 1 enrage timer on bulwark and that was @ 2%.

 

Stop playing bad and as I do hate to say this but it's needed here "L2P"

 

Kudos on reading 1/5th of the available information on the thread and pretending to know what is being discussed and the viable alternatives that have been offered.

 

I will take your heartfelt 'L2P' and suggest that you 'L2Read' and 'L2Understand'.