TheEvilEeyore Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 headline: burst dps class doing burst damage when his skills randomly crit! next week: a healer class caught healing OMG you made my night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilEeyore Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) People don't get "three shot" or even killed within the stun unless they were badly wounded to begin with. Stop spreading lies. Today, huttball, 4.5k, 3.7k, 3.6k, 3.1k dead before my stun was gone. i was at roughly 85% hp before he came out on me. does taht mean i was "badly wounded"? Edited January 31, 2012 by TheEvilEeyore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 People don't get "three shot" or even killed within the stun unless they were badly wounded to begin with. Stop spreading lies. Sorry man, there are dozens of videos that prove that already. Which is why your getting nerfed. And I don't feel sorry for you. At all. Maybe now you will have to "learn to play". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Luvin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Today, huttball, 4.5k, 3.7k, 3.6k, 3.1k dead before my stun was gone. i was at roughly 85% hp before he came out on me. does taht mean i was "badly wounded"? I can agree with this, I'm a 50 marauder with 14k hitpoints and 4 pieces of epic and against the premades we are forced to play on my server I come out with about 1/3 health after stun. It is quite fun to kill them when their doing it to a teammate and to aoe them when they cloak to run and hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Today, huttball, 4.5k, 3.7k, 3.6k, 3.1k dead before my stun was gone. i was at roughly 85% hp before he came out on me. does taht mean i was "badly wounded"? The only way you get hit for that much as a Sage is if your shield was down and/or you are badly undergeared, in which case you deserve to lose. The best way to deter an Op/Scoundrel as a Sage/Sorc is to ALWAYS have your shield up. I never attack a shielded enemy unless he's taking an objective, in which case I'm resigned to the fact that I'm going to die and I'm trying to buy time for help to get there. Also, 4 crits in a row. Even with a relic up the chances of that happening are extremely remote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrolite Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Today, huttball, 4.5k, 3.7k, 3.6k, 3.1k dead before my stun was gone. i was at roughly 85% hp before he came out on me. does taht mean i was "badly wounded"? Where is this mythical operative with the 4.5s stun opener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) even if the numbers were 5,2,2... the argument still has merit. people will undoubtably throw the "learn to play" - b ut really, what am i learning? No amount of skill on my part can prevent the damage, and then i start the fight, when im finally able to control my character again, at 35% hp while my opponent is at 100%. Even if he hits like a noodle, it doesnt matter, because i now have to out-damage him 3 to 1 to kill him. if i, say, get him off of me with a knockaway... he just stealths and re-opens on me for a 100% guaranteed kill, while i can do nothing, again, while my character is parked on the ground. Burst classes are fine, control classes are fine. It's when you combine them both that things get tricky. I dont want to see Ops neutered, but what they were capable of was overwhelming and removed skill from the equation - the skill of the victim didnt matter one bit if he couldnt ever control his character before he died. I dont know that the current nerf is the right answer, but something had to be done. this is so not true. with my trooper i don't need to out damage him. after he does his burst i just have to pop a medpac throw a heal or 2 and then the operative runs away. I don't see whats so hard about operatives. they have a great opener with a 3 second stun. which i'm barely ever in cause i usually have my cc breaker available. Serious stop wasting your cc breaker on cc that dont matter. any cc that breaks on damage just eat it. any stun when full health eat it. if you get rooted eat it. I mean their are only 2 reasons 2 use your cc breaker 1: operative/scoundrel drops you on there opener 2: you are being focus fired and don't want to die before your healer has time to help you. since patch 1.1 I have died once to an operative while being in his openers stun. Edited January 31, 2012 by Ssfbistimg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Where is this mythical operative with the 4.5s stun opener? The stun is 3 seconds and animation to get back is 1.5 seconds hence why that nerfed the stun to 1.5 second and it still gives full resolve because Bioware couldnt be bothered to fix the animation. So pre 1.1.1 Ops locked you out for 4.5 seconds After 1.1.1 Ops lock you out for 3 seconds like it was originally intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 AFAIK, unless it was changed and not updated, Hidden Strike gives 800 resolve, not 1000. 1000 is a full bar.. but 800 is all that will display above someone's head. Im willing to believe it was changed and the datamining sites are out of date, but if they aren't.. it's not quite a full resolve bar. No comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Sorry man, there are dozens of videos that prove that already. Which is why your getting nerfed. And I don't feel sorry for you. At all. Maybe now you will have to "learn to play". There's also videos of Guardians critting for over 9000. Everything that happened before 1.1 introduced the 50s bracket and stop buff stacking is irrelevant. Show me a video taken since 1.1 that has a Scoundrel/Op dropping a full health, similarly geared opponent within the stun. It's ok, I'll wait. And people like you telling people like me to "Learn to play" is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen. Your inability (or stubbornness) to adapt your tactics to neutralize Concealment Ops and Scrapper Scoundrels when we, the scoundrel/operative community, have told you exactly how to beat us over and over and over again is nothing short of astounding. Common sense advice like "Guard healers," "Don't run around by yourself," "Dot me," and "Always have your shield up" have been neglected in favor of constant crying that the opportunistic assassination class punished you when you were weak or playing stupid. You know what happens when I run into a team that sticks close to healers, moves together, focuses me, and plays clean? I am completely ineffective and get my world rocked for 15 minutes. So when you say, "Looks like you guys need to L2P now." It's more like, "Our constant crying got BioWare to break your class. Shut up and L2dealwithit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The stun is 3 seconds and animation to get back is 1.5 seconds hence why that nerfed the stun to 1.5 second and it still gives full resolve because Bioware couldnt be bothered to fix the animation. So pre 1.1.1 Ops locked you out for 4.5 seconds After 1.1.1 Ops lock you out for 3 seconds like it was originally intended. You measured it with a stop watch did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucksy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That damage isn't really impressive, especially considering that they are blowing all their CDs and probably adrenals/relics also. Over nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckorforever Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) and after that what hapened? leme guess.. you popd a shield, a knockback and spamed tracer missile on him til he died? Happened to me Yesterday too.... 3 Hits from an Op and i've 1,8 k HP Left Yeah, good Idea! Knockback! -> Done Shield -> Still on its 2 Minute! Cooldown Tracermissle: 1. 750 Dmg, 2. 1280 Dmg ... Guess what, I'm Dead ... Had a fair Chance to Win this fight? Sure .... Edited January 31, 2012 by Luckorforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klathnagma Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The only way you get hit for that much as a Sage is if your shield was down and/or you are badly undergeared, in which case you deserve to lose. No you don't, that's why you are getting nerfed. If he/she is at 85% hp most lkely is going to be with shield down and on cd. That should not guarantee a kill, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deshie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You measured it with a stop watch did you? Me personally, no. But there's people posting on the PTR forum saying that's how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicen Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 They need a nerf plain and simple...anyone who disagrees is either a tool or of course plays the class and obviously does not want a nerf... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenyc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That damage isn't really impressive, especially considering that they are blowing all their CDs and probably adrenals/relics also. Over nerfed. This. They should have gotten rid of unlimited Biochem consumables before supernerfing an entire spec of a DPS class. Stacking consumables will always give anyone a huge advantage in both PvP and PvE, and the ability of Biochems to use their consumables indiscriminately without any cost or expense is pretty ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) As tough? No. Tough? yes. But its the lack of initial *control* + burst that brings the fight down to winnable. I dont start at such an HP deficit, and it's easier against them entrench up and just shoot their face in. I might not get lucky, or i might, but it's a lot less frustrating and hard to deal with. I'm also not worried about them ducing around a corner in Huttball and re-opening on me - again, because the initial burst is lower, im more likely to live. If i let an op get away after the initial opener and around a corner, once they stealth im dead for sure. Their opening being smaller also creates less healer pressure, meaning that despite their equivalent damage over the same period as an operative, means that i have a better chance to catch a heal from an alert teammate and live - far too often, ive died o nly to have the healer tell me "i just couldnt get the heal off in time, sorry". It does matter. I think this is more of a sign that Mercs&Troops need some nerfs, too, than anything else. All things being equal, if i, as a sniper, set up across from a similarly geared merc, he's going to beat me almost 100% of the time if he has a pulse. He has all the damage i do.. and a ton of utility and survivability i dont. Like i said, i dont want to be see ops non-viable, but the current state of things (essentially you getting to play your character and them not, while you reduce them to almost nothing) wasnt fun for most and wasnt balanced. Im not a wizard, i cant say if this nerf is too much (i think it might be, and you need some back-end love) but it couldnt be left the way it was. Prepare to ride the bone for a while till things find a better equilibrium. At least you have a totally viable healing tree to fall back on. Know what i get? some more sub-par dps trees. With those changes, there is no reason to play a DPS operative. Sins/Shadows will be far superior for everything, including burst, which is the only thing Operatives have, while sins have a lot more they can do and offer. What I find funny is: - People kill Operatives easily when Operatives are out of stealth. - People kill Operatives easily if they flush Operatives out of stealth, which is easy to do. - People kill Operatives easily if Operatives do not get a lot of crits. - People kill Operatives easily if they have their CC-breaker ready. - People kill Operatives easily when those people are shielded, guarded, healed or supported. - People moan if Operatives get away using their only escape ability "Vanish/Cloaking Screen". - People moan if Operatives use every single ability, buff and CD at their disposal, including their only escape ability "Vanish/Cloaking Screen" to secure a single kill, even though most of the time this means the Operative will die right after by someone else. So Operative are good at once thing, burst damage. But people will not be happy until that is taken away, so that they will be able kill Operatives in every single situation. Basically, operatives are not allowed to kill anyone anymore, but should be relegated to be on free-farm status. Edited January 31, 2012 by Treplos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericdjobs Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I just got hit for 5.8k 3k 3k, by an operative. All 3 numbers were on my screen at the same time when it happened. I'm in heavy armour with 550 expertise. So yeah, nerf Operative. I honestly don't see how that's overpowered when on my Pyrotech Powertech I can pop explosive fuel (+25% crit rate for 15 seconds, 1min45sec CD with set bonus) and practically GUARENTEE a 4.2k Thermal Detonator followed by a 4.6k railshot (These both happen instantaneously, mind you, because of TD's delay) followed by a 3k rocket punch and if I'm lucky there's a 45% chance that rocket punch will proc another 4.6k railshot that will cost me nothing...that's 4 GCDs to waste someone if I get lucky. And with a 60% crit rate when explosive fuel is up, it isn't that hard to get lucky. If I pop my trinket/adrenal at the same time, you can add 300-700 damage on to all those numbers, easily. And I have practically NO EXPERTISE, and I do this regularly against people who appear to have a lot of expertise (I'm in COlumi/other PvE pieces) I shutter to think of the damage I will do once I actually get gear on bags (On bag #36 and I just have the bracers) Edited January 31, 2012 by ericdjobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treplos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I honestly don't see how that's overpowered when on my Pyrotech Powertech I can pop explosive fuel (+25% crit rate for 15 seconds, 1min45sec CD with set bonus) and practically GUARENTEE a 4.2k Thermal Detonator followed by a 4.6k railshot (These both happen instantaneously, mind you, because of TD's delay) followed by a 3k rocket punch and if I'm lucky there's a 45% chance that rocket punch will proc another 4.6k railshot that will cost me nothing...that's 4 GCDs to waste someone if I get lucky. And with a 60% crit rate when explosive fuel is up, it isn't that hard to get lucky. If I pop my trinket/adrenal at the same time, you can add 300-700 damage on to all those numbers, easily. And I have practically NO EXPERTISE, and I do this regularly against people who appear to have a lot of expertise (I'm in COlumi/other PvE pieces) I shutter to think of the damage I will do once I actually get gear on bags (On bag #36 and I just have the bracers) That's what I already said. If they think Operatives burst is too high, I guess they never went against good Pyro Powertechs. I lose 95% of my fights with them: first strike, double first strike, does not matter ... ah well. Oh and I've seen a Pyro break 600 or 700k damage. They told me they are using an 8 / 6 / 27 build or something. Edited January 31, 2012 by Treplos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mamono Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) headline: burst dps class doing burst damage when his skills randomly crit! next week: a healer class caught healing Dont forget that burst damage classes also have the best shields, best knockback (AOE knockback and AOE stun? What idiot thought AoE stun is balanced in PvP?) and stun, best escape ability and on top of that, best ability to get to the target. Edited January 31, 2012 by Mamono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineschmidt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Dont forget that burst damage classes also have the best shields, best knockback (AOE knockback and AOE stun? What idiot thought AoE stun is balanced in PvP?) and stun, best escape ability and on top of that, best ability to get to the target. Best shield? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trauglodyte Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Assuming that you're correct and that 100% of that damage came from the Op and not someone attacking while the Op was, you should be (again, ASSUMING that you're lvl 50 in decent geat) at around 40% health. As you're wearing heavy armor, you're either a Sent/Jugg or a Trooper/BH. In the later case, you knock him back, open up, and tear him a new one. If he gets back on you, stun and kite. See, the kicker here is this: Once you have range on an Op/Scrapper, they're cooked. The grenade isn't going to do any damage, the basic ranged attack is pitiful, and all of the rest of their ranged attacks end at 10m. So, again, KB, kite, stun, kits some more, laugh as you force them to blow a 2 min cool down to escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Every single match i get harassed by operatives and i'm sick of it, I get killed so many times by their constant stealth, stab, stun combo and can never kill them even from full health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squatdog_nz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) I just got hit for 5.8k 3k 3k, by an operative. All 3 numbers were on my screen at the same time when it happened. I'm in heavy armour with 550 expertise. So yeah, nerf Operative. No you didn't. Helpful Hint:It's extremely difficult for an Operative to get over 5k, even with stacked buffs Edited February 23, 2012 by Squatdog_nz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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