SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfulness Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 This game doesn't have server communities to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Very few people are against IMPROVING the LFG function in the game. What people are against is the WoW LFD. It's a horrible system, and definitely not an improvement. Especially if it's x-server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For instance, if BW made the following changes: -Leader can open a "Group listing". In this listing, he can specify what Roles and how many he is looking for and for what content. -Person LFG can open a "LFG listing". In this listing, player can specify what role they want to play and what content. -LFG system then matches the Group listings and LFG listings. When a LFG player is matched, the Leader gets a popup with allowing to invite or deny, and a button for whispering that individual. This system gives you the convenience of quick grouping without taking away any social aspect of grouping. And, of course, it wouldn't be X-server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbefrier Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Let's take a look how my experienced in a certain game people seem to hate: Before the tool: I had approximately 15 people on my friend list. All of them people I only knew in game, and we became good friends. Most of them I knew since early 06. I then had about 20 names in my head I would whisper randomly to chat with, and to get into groups with. This would be people I grouped up with over and over on my time to 60/70/80. It was not unusual to run an instance multiple time, to tell jokes and to help out with whatever proffesion we had. It was teamwork. After the tool: I never added a single player to my friendlist the last years. Only 2 of the 15 people on the friendlist was active, and we chatted often. The general chat was about dead to anything but trade spam and foreign language talk. Entering a instance consisted off: 1) Me saying "howdy!". 2) They saying "hi" 3) Buffing 4) leaving/keep fighting. Now, I agree that there are other factors that killed the game, but the tool was one of them. So, my conclusion: Yes, the tool does kill the community. The reason there is little community in SWTOR is because half of the playerbase is from WoW, which are used to the no-community kind of thing. They will adapt. If the LFG tool was added, it would do nothing but keep the trend going. So, that said: Why do people play MMOs if not for the community? and there you have it the biggest reason i am against a LFD tool. I do like the fact i can find groups fast but its just not worth it IMO. I am pretty sure there will be one though i just hope its not cross server, if it is well this game will be on borrowed time. thats not to say i wouldnt be open to new ideas on the matter but i do not want WoWs LFD tool copied and pasted into TOR there has to be a better solution that can allow to find groups quickly but keep community important. Edited January 30, 2012 by Derbefrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinchy_ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No one socialises looking for a group, in or out of guild. It's all in IN the group. Fail argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ajudicated Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Mmmmm implementing a feature that makes the game more user friendly, more efficient and effective for players wanting to do missions and end game group content. Less time wasting and actually promotes more grouping and social aspects of the game. VS A text based, cumbersome, tedious, user unfriendly, inefficient hit or miss implementation which has hijacked the main social function of the chat area. Just out of curiosity, how does having this feature provide a means for players to be anonymous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xNyos Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It removes the whole social and game part of actually making a group. It destroys involvement in the game (convenience button, push it and magically everything else is taken care of for you !), it destroys the social part (no need to interact, you just let the tool does the work), it destroys the actual point of a MMO. Just look at WoW to see how it basically ruined the community. What about meeting new people due to a LFG system? If anything it makes the game more social imo because it connects you to more people. WoW's community wasn't ruined by a LFG system. Wow's community was ruined because blizzard dumbed the game down so much that it became popular with children. Children ruined the community of WoW, not a LFG system. I wish BW could implement adult only servers. There would be a big difference in the "community" imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurkan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 * No to cross server lfg tool.* Yes to a better lfg tool (server only) when possible.* Global LFG channel NOW ... please? :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 and there you have it the biggest reason i am against a LFD tool. I do like the fact i can find groups fast but its just not worth it IMO. I am pretty sure there will be one though i just hope its not cross server, if it is well this game will be on borrowed time. thats not to say i wouldnt be open to new ideas on the matter but i do not want WoWs LFD tool copied and pasted into TOR there has to be a better solution that can allow to find groups quickly but keep community important. Like keeping it single-server? >.> Why does nobody comprehend that a LFD tool does not need to be cross-server? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 For instance, if BW made the following changes: -Leader can open a "Group listing". In this listing, he can specify what Roles and how many he is looking for and for what content. -Person LFG can open a "LFG listing". In this listing, player can specify what role they want to play and what content. -LFG system then matches the Group listings and LFG listings. When a LFG player is matched, the Leader gets a popup with allowing to invite or deny, and a button for whispering that individual. This system gives you the convenience of quick grouping without taking away any social aspect of grouping. And, of course, it wouldn't be X-server. Except everyone signs up as leader and will start kicking people for loot. This system if anything will offer more exploits than x-realm in WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Except everyone signs up as leader and will start kicking people for loot. This system if anything will offer more exploits than x-realm in WoW. Agreed, sadly. My idea is pretty simple. Imagine the Dungeon finder in WoW, except single-server with no teleport. You get a group of people who feel more accountable to each other in some insignificant way, but you still have to get together to run the dang thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZedFighter Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 LFD restricted to per server and not cross server is fine. Stop whining that LFD will ruin the community. That's a cross server issue. I think the devs here understand that cross server LFD would be a huge mistake. At least I hope they can understand that =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalusW Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Like keeping it single-server? >.> Why does nobody comprehend that a LFD tool does not need to be cross-server? A group of 3 level 50's lf1m in fleet is still a group of 3 level 50's lf1m if a LFD tool is implemented. If that 4th level 50 isn't at the fleet, he is probably too busy to run the flashpoint. A LFD tool has to be cross server to be of any use in lowering queue times. I believe that the real issues is that the server populations are too small for pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkalevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So in essence, Anti-LFD people seem to be among several camps: a) They're on one of the few vibrant servers left in the game, and can find groups easier than your average player. They don't see a need. b) They have a great guild of several dozen competent people in the general level range of their toons, who are available at mutually convenient times. They're secure, they don't see a need. c) They've experienced several bad groups in World of Warcraft's cross-server LFD tool, and don't understand that a tool doesn't need to be cross-server to be implemented. d) They like being contrary. Is this a fair assessment? About as fair as this : So in essence, pro-LFD people seem to be among several camps: a) They are people who simply don't like MMO, despite the fact they play one. They just want to be able to play solo the most possible, keeping interaction with anyone to a bare minimum. As such, a tool allowing them to push a button and never interact is great. b) They are lazy and just want to be handed out everything on a platter without to do anything. As such, automated system requiring no thought nor involvement is great. c) They can't manage to find other players because they are rude, asocial or generally a PIA. The automated system do it for them. d) They are trolls, ninja an jerks and just wish to be able to randomly find victims. Here, a fair assessment in answer to yours ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherenice Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ah yes !!! LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC Building a new community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkalevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What about meeting new people due to a LFG system? If anything it makes the game more social imo because it connects you to more people. No, it doesn't. Walking in the street allow you to see much more people than going to a party, you still actually socialize more in the latter case than in the former. "Working" to build/look for a group involve actually going toward others. Pushing a button and waiting for things to happens automatically doesn't. Being automatically grouped with ten bots brings actually LESS social content than talking with two. (and yes, you CAN see talkative people in an automatically-made group, and "bots" that just invite you without a word and never speak in manual grouping ; you can always find particular examples of everything, everywhere. My point is about trend and average, not minute examples) WoW's community wasn't ruined by a LFG system. Wow's community was ruined because blizzard dumbed the game down so much that it became popular with children. Yes, and the LFD tool was part of this dumbing down, and could only happen because of it, and increased it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amenian Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think most anti-LFDers are in the same camp as me. We not only don't mind, but support a LFD tool if it is same server only. Anyone who experienced MMOs that adopted a cross-server tool in both the before and after stages of the tool KNOWS that cross-server ruins the community. It is not a perception thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 About as fair as this : So in essence, pro-LFD people seem to be among several camps: a) They are people who simply don't like MMO, despite the fact they play one. They just want to be able to play solo the most possible, keeping interaction with anyone to a bare minimum. As such, a tool allowing them to push a button and never interact is great. b) They are lazy and just want to be handed out everything on a platter without to do anything. As such, automated system requiring no thought nor involvement is great. c) They can't manage to find other players because they are rude, asocial or generally a PIA. The automated system do it for them. d) They are trolls, ninja an jerks and just wish to be able to randomly find victims. Here, a fair assessment in answer to yours ! Except he wasn't insulting people.... your just being a dbag. His post was accurate.... many LFD protesters are in the camp of well be social make friends join a guild. Not everyone has friends that play the game not everyone can join a super active guild that will go with you to an FP at the drop of a hat because you want to do it not everyone has the same server population to where they can go to fleet and type /1 LFM Hammer station need all and have a full group in 10 minutes. Your trolling and being rude tbh, because I for one am not lazy. I have to spend hours setting up groups and not progressing my character because the only way to get a group is to sit in fleet for said hours and spam the same message over and over again in between people trolling on the server. Stop being a dic k dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ah yes !!! LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - MERC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC LFG HAMMERSTATION - DPS - SORC Building a new community. I hope I can be that social someday.... people say I am antisocial because I am against predeteremined chat spam messages . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeonidasSith Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Pro: Quicker groups Con: Ruins community What this guy said. It killed WoW for me after 6 years of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashyel Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 They need to make finding a group easier, rather than automated. I.E. Put a list of all players who are on the same quest, in your quest log. Next to "Share" and "Abandon", you'd find "Look for members". That would make grouping for heroics a lot easier too. And if you're invited to a group via the quest log it would say "X has invited you to join a group for Taral V" The players would still need to do it, and get to the location themselves, but it would be a hell of a lot easier if you could focus on those who actually have/need the quest. It might also make LFG comments more relevant if people used the lists more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I think most of the anti-LFD people simply don't want a cross-server aspect because that is what killed communities in WoW (to be fair it wasn't the only factor, but its was a big one), not the LFD tool itself. FYI, the social aspects of not having a LFD tool isn't spamming general chat for a group. Its the part where you actually meet people on your server, have a good FP run and put them on your friend list for future runs. Its basically MMO Networking for all you professionals out there. You meet other people on your server. You know the good players, the bad players, the idiots, the ninjas, the griefers and trolls. Guilds and people actually have reputations and there isn't this layer of anonymity on the community. I'm all for making it easier to find groups, and an improved LFG tool would be great. A global LFG channel would be nice (we have a player made LFG channel on my server) so you don't have to camp out in the fleet to find a group. I think it needs to stay server only, and not cross server. I don't want this game to go down the same road that Blizzard did. Cross server LFG killed any sense of community the game had left. I'm not saying the game couldn't benefit from a better LFG system, it just doesn't need to go to the lengths Blizzard did in creating their system. There is a medium ground that I think would satisfy both camps in this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeDudeIsanub Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 About as fair as this : So in essence, pro-LFD people seem to be among several camps: a) They are people who simply don't like MMO, despite the fact they play one. They just want to be able to play solo the most possible, keeping interaction with anyone to a bare minimum. As such, a tool allowing them to push a button and never interact is great. b) They are lazy and just want to be handed out everything on a platter without to do anything. As such, automated system requiring no thought nor involvement is great. c) They can't manage to find other players because they are rude, asocial or generally a PIA. The automated system do it for them. d) They are trolls, ninja an jerks and just wish to be able to randomly find victims. Here, a fair assessment in answer to yours ! My reasons are cooler. You can't respond to my points without a vapid regurgitation of tired mantras. Therefore mine still stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akkalevil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Except he wasn't insulting people.... your just being a dbag. I'm just being less hypocrite. Honeyed words don't mean crap when the intent is clearly about dismissing other's opinions by strawmanning. His post was accurate.... many LFD protesters are in the camp of well be social make friends join a guild. Not everyone has friends that play the game Make them ? That's PRECISELY THE POINT MADE DURING THIS WHOLE THREAD, that making/joining groups where you socialize is the ACTUAL BEST WAY to MAKE FRIENDS in the game ? Seriously... not everyone can join a super active guild that will go with you to an FP at the drop of a hat because you want to do it not everyone has the same server population to where they can go to fleet and type /1 LFM Hammer station need all and have a full group in 10 minutes. Then join/make a group yourself ? Again, that's the point ? Your trolling and being rude tbh, because I for one am not lazy. I have to spend hours setting up groups and not progressing my character because the only way to get a group is to sit in fleet for said hours and spam the same message over and over again in between people trolling on the server. One thing that would improve a lot the grouping would be to make a "world channel", like the LFD channel that existed in WoW. So that you can still make/look for group but WHILE playing. Stop being a dic k dude. I'll always treat people the same way they treat me. The post I answered to was just a big nicely-worded strawman twisting the arguments to make pro-LFD appear like clueless idiots. That's intellectual hypocrisy at its worst, and I just answered back on the same level. If you're shallow or biased enough not to see it, your loss. Edited January 30, 2012 by Akkalevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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