Endgame in MMO's consist of basically improving your character so he/she can do harder content and get better gear. All MMO's are basically like this. Everyone plays this game to make their characters better. Basically once you hit 50 there are a few things to do. The first for you should be to find a guild. Without one, especially on a low pop server, you won't have much of an endgame. If you are into PvP the endgame is very simple. Do WZ's and the PvP dailies to get better gear so you can face **** other players. Thats it so far. On a low pop server I doubt much pvp is going on in Illum. If you like PvE you gotta take a different approach. Getting a guild is key. The first thing you will want to though is your dailies so you can start getting good mods for your gear. After a few days of farming the dailies you should have some of the best mods in the game. You can now do Hard modes. Again on a low pop server without a guild, this will be a pain. Go to the fleet and spam general looking for a group for HM FP's. This can take anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour. Once you do get a group, pray that it's good and you can finish the FP. Run HM's do you get decent gear and then you can do OP's once or twice a week. You will need a guild to do OP's. Besides that there really isn't much to do. If you like PvP you can jump right in but there is little progression. There is more progression in PvE but you need groups to do anything but the dailies. For the most part, the endgame in ToR consists of spamming general in fleet chat for a group. This is why so many people have quit the game and say the endgame sucks. There really isn't much to do solo if you don't like pvp. Oh and for people saying roll an alt. That is not endgame. Why the hell would you roll another character to 50 when there is so little to do. I had fun with the endgame for about 2 weeks. I did my dailies everyday and did alteast 2-3 HM's. I got columi gear very quickly and started to do OP's. The game felt way to easy for me and my character didn't seem to progress any. It didn't feel like reward was worth the time invested. I know many others feel this way. I hope you have a better time then I do but without a guild and on a low population server, I fear you may get frustrated quickly unless you love doing pvp over and over again.

There was a time that MMO's were for "Nerds". MMO's were much tougher and more complex and had an older player base. This was the golden age of MMO's when the players were mature. Vanilla WoW started with this player base but as Blizzard dumbed down the game more and more, it became more accessible to a larger group of people. Players who normally played shooters where the only communication is normally flaming your opponent now were playing MMO's since they were starting to become cool. The biggest blow to the MMO community though is the large number of children (-18) that are now playing the game. The vast majority are selfish, immature, and rude. I really hope an MMO company makes a more complex game aimed for adults. I think the MMO community will thrive again without selfish children running around everywhere.

I agree this game has no soul. Sounds are a big part. I want to hear birds chirping while I'm outside. I want to see some creatures running around making sounds. I want to hear music that gets me in the mood. I want to see people doing things. All there are on planets are mobs. Each planet looks a little different but they all feel the same and have no soul. I used to love to quest in Grizzly Hills in WoW because of the environment. The music was great. You could walk through the forest and hear the birds chirping. Bunnies and squirrels move around the zone. Bears would be in the river trying to catch salmon. The Zone felt alive. It brought a smile to my face. ToR has nothing like this.

He was talking about his total net points being at 9800. He got that number from 10000 DS - 200 LS. Koalachan is right. All he needs to do is get 200 more DS points and he will be Dark V again. United_Strafes - The 9800 number is his net LS/DS points, not his DS points. Thats where you math is fuzzy.

The is a big difference between ToR and Vanilla WoW. First, Vanilla WoW took longer to hit 60 so Blizzard had more time to implement new content. Once players hit 60 in WoW they actually had to work to get their gear. People were mostly in green when they hit 60. You had to work your *** off that get that epic blue Tier 1 set which actually felt like an accomplishment. Once you were leet with your Tier 1 blues, then you could get keyed for MC and maybe you could get your first epics. Epics in Vanilla WoW was truly epic. I remember a MT on my server who would always have a crowd following him to worship his epics. It took guilds months to clear MC, not weeks to clear the endgame content in ToR. That is the difference. Gear was much hard to get in WoW which gave players something to look forward too. Everything is handed to the players in this game.

I don't mean to rip into you but it's going to sound like I am. This is a major problem with this game right now. So many people are playing this game as a Co-op KoToR 3 and have never played MMO's before. They expect to have everything handed to them like in single play games. They see geared players? OMG their OP. This is unfair. BW you better make it so I can buy epics off the AH and not have to do a damn thing for them so it will be fair. This game is already very easy to level to 50 and relatively easy to get geared yet we have people like OP (I'm sorry I'm singling you out to make a greater point) that want things to be even easier! You do make a good point that there is nothing good to buy on the GTN at 50 though. The economy in this game is very unstable right now but there are some good items you can find on the GTN at 50. If you want the same gear as the players in the guild you saw, you need to PvP for the PvP gear they had or PvE for the PvE gear they had. Asking the dev's to hand you epics will just cause people to rant and rave (Like I'm doing now)

Ahh the glory days of SWG. While it certainly failed in many places, it shined brighter than any other game in others and I still love SWG for that. The biggest thing I miss is the oneness of SWG. I don't know how many of you played before mounts were introduced, but the planets felt absolutely massive. If you wanted to go to the high level planets like Endor, you needed to take a group a first. It was fun just exploring because the planets were so big. The profession system in SWG was also awesome? Tired of your profession? Just drop them all and start over with new ones. While the combat wasn't great, the community and other aspects were. SWG was the only game I had two accounts for. One was a combat character and the other was a merchant. I would spend hours surveying the ground to plant my harvestors to collects mats to make buffs. I had a group of doctors on the server who depended on me for their medical mats and I had a ton of fun collecting them, setting up my house and shop, and building a reputation on the server. I was a doctor my self and would spend hours in the cities buffing people. Everyone would form up in a neat little line while they waited for buffs. People would actually talk to each other. The game required groups to get things done. SWG and ToR are so different though that it's hard to compare. SWG was going for that sandbox player run community feel. ToR is basically a coop KoToR 3. There are some things I think they could add to ToR to make it better. Open world planets. Hell there don't even have to be quests here. These planets would required a group to visit and exploring would actually be fun. Maybe put rare mats and mobs on these planets or a FP or operation. Player housing - This can't work like SWG becuase of the lack of open world where you could flop down a house where ever you wanted. In ToR it would have to be instanced in the cities. Ex: Maybe you can get your first "House" on the Republic fleet which is just a small apartment. Better housing could be bought at later times. The problem with ToR is there is no need to have housing anywhere but the fleet because there is no reason to visit other planets after 50. This thread brought back memories. SWG was magestic for all its flaws. I remember the feeling I had on Naboo and the fear I had on Endor. I dont have that in this game.

/amen to 95% of your ideas. I don't think you mentioned the restrained feeling that this game gives players which can't be fixed until a new expansion and new planets if it can even be fixed at all due to the story driven nature of this game. Also I couldn't agree with you more about the fan boys of this time. I swear BW hires some of these fools. They don't even read the threads. At any hint of criticism of their holy game, they begin to flame and troll. Criticism of the game will only make it better. Bioware has a ton invested in this game. They don't want to fail and hopefully it's subscribers in an uproar will light a fire under their *** and they will put more resources into fixing and improving this game ASAP.

Let me fix it for you . First line was supposed to say "I have never seen a player base this split before"

I'd say your an MMOer. Most of us have played the KoToR series and were looking forward to the story. BW has made this game as Co-op KoToR 3. You can play this game to level 50 without ever talking or grouping with another player. I'm guessing your in a guild for the MMO elements of the game right? You can enjoy the story AND want MMO elements. The problem I have right now is that BW seems to be catering to the casual gaming class. Because of that this game is so easy that it lacks a challenge and excitement. The point I'm making is that it needs to go after the MMOers quick before they move on. The casual gamers don't care about endgame. They will just finish their character and quit. It's the MMOers who will pay the bills for BW because they can play this game for years. This game is missing that MMO. Others have said it before, it's nothing new but it is due to BW catering to the casual gamers who maybe never played an MMO before and the only reason they are playing this game is because of the games name. These players want everything to be easy and all the gear handed to them and the rest of the community suffers from this choice.

To all the fanboys who jump down everyone's throat every time someone mentions WoW, let people vent. They are making post like this because they want the game to be great. They want to play it for years like they did with WoW. Like it or not, WoW is still THE MMO to be compared too. The only way this game will improve is feedback from the community. I'm sick and tired of every time someone criticizes this game, there are a flurry of posts by fanboys such as: "This is perfect! BW is going to herald in the second coming of Jesus and can do no harm! Go back to WoW. How dare you say something that could improve this game!"

What about meeting new people due to a LFG system? If anything it makes the game more social imo because it connects you to more people. WoW's community wasn't ruined by a LFG system. Wow's community was ruined because blizzard dumbed the game down so much that it became popular with children. Children ruined the community of WoW, not a LFG system. I wish BW could implement adult only servers. There would be a big difference in the "community" imo.

I have never seen a player base this split before until I played this game. IMO this is causing many problems for the developers and I think soon they will need to choose which side they want to cater too. They just don't have enough resources to cater to both. They two factions of the player base are: The casual gamers who are playing ToR as KoToR 3 and The MMOer Lets start with the casual gamer first. Because of the SW theme and already established franchise of KoToR, many people who have never played MMO's before are playing this game. Most of these people are playing for the story. Then we have the MMOer. Many of these people are tired of WoW and other MMO and were hoping that ToR would be the "next MMO". These people are looking for a polished game with things to do at endgame. Many of these gamers play hours a day and will play this game for years if it holds there attention. Right now BW is trying to cater to both those groups and this game has turned into a Co-Op KoToR 3. The casual gamer is happy not grouping the entire time to 50. Once they hit 50 they may start another alt to see the story but they care little for endgame. They play the game to "beat it". They want to be able to get the best gear with little work or grouping. The MMOer on the other hand plays this game due to post 50 content. They want a challenge and more MMO aspect to the game. Right now people are going around calling this game ToRtanic, saying it will soon sink. I agree with them if BW doesn't choose which faction of the player base to cater too soon. The "casual" gamers are staying to hit the level cap and leaving the game. The MMOers are frustrated with the lack of content catering to them and leaving the game. I don't think there is much BW can do to cater to the casual gamers anymore. Most will play one or two character tops and quit. The game already does a great job catering to them. You can get to 1-50 without ever grouping. You barely see other players when leveling. The story is engaging and holds the players interest. Leveling to 1-50 is fast and easy. Gear is easy to come by. You have blues and oranges handed to you constantly. Hell, you can wear the same modable gear to 50 just by changing out the mods bought from commendations. The casual gamer has a limited subscription length. Again, many are playing this as KoToR 3 and will quit once they beat it. In a few months most of these people will have come and gone. It's the MMOers that will play for years if the game is to their liking. Right now it isn't. I'm no hardcore MMOer but I do consider myself in the MMO faction. I got this game because I thought this would be something that could hold my attention for months or years like WoW did. I hope it does but I am discouraged by a few things. Before I get flamed with "This game is new, give it time," which I am perfectly willing to do, there are a few flaws with the game which I don't think can be fixed. First is the planet and zone designs. The sharding and instancing makes the zones feel dead. I rarely see other players when questing. This game doesn't feel MASSIVE or MULTIPLAYER. The backdrops of some of the planets are gorgeous but the world feels static and dead. Servers are too small and grouping is way to hard. How the hell could there not be a decent LFG system. The second is the difficulty. BW choose to make this game easy for the casual players. This game has been out for little more than a month and already most people are working on their alts or close to the level cap. Leveling should take twice as long IMO. I didn't feel a great sense of accomplishment like I did in WoW when I hit 60. Another HUGE problem IMO is gear. You can get gear way to easily. When I hit 50, I didn't have a single green item. I was wearing blues and oranges from quests and commendations. I even had some epics from the GTN because I have a ton of money with little to spend it on. This shouldn't be the case. I feel no sense of accomplishment when I get my gear. It's just meh. No heart pounding excitement in this game. In WoW I hit 60 in greens with a few blues. I had to do instances to get my tier 1. Epics were truly epic. I farmed gold for days just to buy one of the AH and was so proud when I did. Not in ToR. Again this is due to catering to the casual gamers. They don't want to be left out of course, even though they will quit the game as soon as they feel like they "beat it". MMOers don't want to beat the game. They want it to keep going. They want something to strive for. There needs to be more of a carrot on the stick approach. You should see a Jedi running through the fleet and admire him for that truly epic lightsaber he has. You would know that player really worked hard for that and really was skilled. The biggest problem with the MMO base IMO is they have nothing to work for in endgame. WoW had many problems at launch but I felt like I was always working for something. Molten Core wasn't cleared until something like 5 months after launch. People had something to work for. Everything was cleared shortly after launch in ToR. There is no epic boss that strikes fear in players. I haven't come across anything that had a sense of danger actually. So BW has two directions to go in. They can focus on more single player content and put the focus on rolling alt after alt. or they add some difficulty to this game. They can add endgame content that is tough to beat. They can add gear that is hard to get. I want to see someone in the fleet and envy his gear. I want to be able to strive for something. The whole formula for an MMO's success is the players never feeling that they "beat" the game. Right now both casual gamers and MMOers feel like they beat the game. Players can only roll so many alts without getting bored. Please BW, I want this game to succeed more than anything. I want it to have 12M subscribers like WoW did. For this to ever happen though, you are going to have to cater to the MMOers. I am not one of them but it would be for the good of the whole community. Give us something to work for, don't hand everything to us.

Yup. Thankfully BW is not SOE. I must say though that I think SWG had more of a SW feel then ToR does. Sure SWG had many problems, but the SW aspect of it kept me playing. While ToR does have some SW feel, the game doesn't feel alive. It's missing the epicness of the huge planets of SWG. ToR just feels small and static to me.

All too true I'm afraid. Takes away SW and BW and this game would tank. Because this is a BW game though I am holding out hope. Instead of spending all of their budget on voice acting for side quests which most people start to skip after level 20, they should have focused on gameplay.