I had my doubt at first, but after reading it, I agree that his opinions and feelings on the game are really uncannily the same as mines.

Caricaturing and oversimplification is not proof either.

I know, it's a big part of why I left it, the probable reason why I'll left SWTOR, and why I know that convenience is much more often a bad thing than it looks.

It's pretty much a given that people clamoring for a LFD tool to do the socializing for them, weren't wanting nor needing other people to begin with. Hail to the new MMO population, who wants a single-player MMO.

Well, casual ruined WoW by whining for convenience everywhere, they're going to ruin SWTOR too ! Not surprised here, but I'll just reiterate : if your competitor is WoW, it feels smarter to propose alternative where it's lacking, rather than just copy-paste it and offer the same experience. People won't leave the leader to follow a clone.

Theory on dummies is a long way from real practice on boss. In fact, it's exactly the worse that could happen with a Recount : people bragging about a completely theorical number completely unrelated to real good play in real situation. That's much WORSE than an actual good Recount on the field.

If one thing kills this game, it will be the total lack of feedback from Bioware...

Your point has some merit, but again, let me quote myself about it : But my opinion is that the attitude problems tied to Recount didn't appear in WoW until the difficulty level was so much lowered that people could focus their entire attention on doing a big score and still manage to faceroll content - if you just tried to top the meter without actually playing well before WotLK, you died like a tool and you actually ended in the bottom, or at least the ones who had to compensate for your errors knew you were just playing the numbers and not actually doing what you should. You're the perfect example of how people saying they don't need Recount to know their performance, are usually the bad players not understanding how things work. Well, actually, 10 % is pretty HUGE if you're going to be competitive. People often underestimate the impact of numbers.

Guess one-liners are the end of your wits. Considering you're not even able to read and argument properly, it's not really surprising. Still, this is just useless and cluttering the thread, so I'll let it drop.

Too bad it's lost on you :-/

Just like your wannabe-witty retorts are oversimplifying the usefulness of Recount, and you still ignore the points made just to be able to mock people who support Recount. It's not like people purposedly ignoring points that they don't like is anything new or rare, so yeah I claim it's the case and it's not because three guys do it that it means it's wrong. There is no hole in the logic that to improve yourself, you need to be able to measure your performance. There is, however, a very obvious willfull bias from your part about painting pro-Recount in bad light, which "coincidentally" happens to go with your oversimplification of the arguments made.

The entire reason why everything is voiced is supposed to be immersion. As such, it's both egregious and irritating when it works counter-productively like in the case that is discussed in this thread.

Isn't it deliciously funny and ironic ? You accuse me of exactly what these people I described did - crying and fussing for not having everything they want, ruining the game for everyone because they want it all and don't care about how other may enjoy different things, not wanting to adapt themselves to a different style of playing if they want to taste another part of the game (no, the game must cater to THEIR play) and the like. Basically, you just confirmed that this kind of behaviour is bad, but you completely missed who was actually acting like it. Kinda like blowing up the head of someone you tried to defend, because you didn't realizes he was the one carrying the bomb and you set if off And you don't even seems to be aware of it.

Immersion is not about efficiency.

The most annoying thing about these re-use of the same clip, is that so often I try to give some kind of answer that looks good on the conversation wheel, just to have a clip that only vaguely sounds like it shoe-horned as the answer. The paraphrasing is already infuriating, but when it seems it's done just to save a few lines because they wanted to add voice-over, it just adds insult to injury.

This thread points one of the annoying problems with this decision, and there is LOTS of logistical nightmares to overcome that can't help but affect the game when everything must be voiced, even if they are not always noticeable from the outside.

No, because I already said several times that it's the only viable point from the anti-Recount side. Doesn't make the rest of your post more valuable, you know ? Still completely pointless that miss the entire argument. Your smarta** picture just prove it even further. At this level of cluelessness and ignoring the points made, I suppose you're actively trying to not understand, so I guess it's useless to try to explain it to you.

This is a joke right ? WoW is the PARAMOUNT example of casuals whining for being able to do everything in the game with very little playtime, and the dev obeying and reducing the content to a tiny single raid tier with everything else below being an outdated joke you can tear through in a week with both hand tied in your back, making everyone standing around in city at level 85. Oh, sorry, I didn't notice the usual crappy self-serving "casuals are the nice guys who have fun with others, hardcore are the jerks who are insulting everyone". Yeah, right, totally not biased and believable ^^

I'm extremely irritated by these kind of arguments. The fun of facing challenges is to find ways to overcome them, having to dig deep into your bag of tricks to find a way to win. There is little fun in tieing your hands behind your back yourself first. It goes right against the very core principle of "doing whatever you can to overcome the challenge".

That was completely ridiculous, more than anything. Thanks for proving you either don't get the point, or purposedly ignore it. And this additionnal completely pointless answer tends to reinforce the conclusion above. Yeah, because obviously trying to keep a good rotation prevents you to do anything else... And someone who doesn't know if he's efficient suddendly become (somehow) much more aware and magically better at reacting with what happens in the fight ! These answers are more and more ridiculous, and I'm staying polite... Actually, Recount shows a lot more than just a DPS number. You can see which abilities were used and what happened the few seconds before a death, which amount of damage someone dealt or received and from which sources, etc. Recount is just a superb tool very often misused (and this misuse is the main and best argument of the anti-recount people, as it's something very real and very frequent). It's, as usual, all in HOW you use it. You use it to log the details and crunch the numbers. You DON'T use it to see how people behave, where they go and if they're switf to act. Recount is the main tool to ANALYZE the NUMBERS of a fight, but you are supposed to keep your eyes open to see what actions happened.

You realize that you blame the wrong people ? The people who bother with ranking and the like are usually the hardcore. The people who want to have everything in a very short time are the casuals. WoW has been stripped of its meat (and every other MMO sheepishly followed suit), and made a permanent short rush, because casuals cried they could not see everything while playing two hours a week. Hardcore players are fine with things that take a long time. They may be the ones going through content the fastest, but they are not the ones who requires it to be shrinked so that they can have it all in a matter of two days.

If you consider a strawman to be a reasonable answer, it says more about you than it says about me. Hello. MMO. Look up what it stands for, spare me the cliché of pretending to feel oppressed by evil authoritarians who want to control how you play. You wouldn't complain that you're required to aim in a FPS. You wouldn't complain that you're required to read dialogues in a RPG. You wouldn't complain that you're required to think in a strategy game. Don't complain you're required to socialize in a MMO. I facepalm when I see the opposite. Guess that makes us even.

I'm just being less hypocrite. Honeyed words don't mean crap when the intent is clearly about dismissing other's opinions by strawmanning. Make them ? That's PRECISELY THE POINT MADE DURING THIS WHOLE THREAD, that making/joining groups where you socialize is the ACTUAL BEST WAY to MAKE FRIENDS in the game ? Seriously... Then join/make a group yourself ? Again, that's the point ? One thing that would improve a lot the grouping would be to make a "world channel", like the LFD channel that existed in WoW. So that you can still make/look for group but WHILE playing. I'll always treat people the same way they treat me. The post I answered to was just a big nicely-worded strawman twisting the arguments to make pro-LFD appear like clueless idiots. That's intellectual hypocrisy at its worst, and I just answered back on the same level. If you're shallow or biased enough not to see it, your loss.

No, it doesn't. Walking in the street allow you to see much more people than going to a party, you still actually socialize more in the latter case than in the former. "Working" to build/look for a group involve actually going toward others. Pushing a button and waiting for things to happens automatically doesn't. Being automatically grouped with ten bots brings actually LESS social content than talking with two. (and yes, you CAN see talkative people in an automatically-made group, and "bots" that just invite you without a word and never speak in manual grouping ; you can always find particular examples of everything, everywhere. My point is about trend and average, not minute examples) Yes, and the LFD tool was part of this dumbing down, and could only happen because of it, and increased it.

About as fair as this : So in essence, pro-LFD people seem to be among several camps: a) They are people who simply don't like MMO, despite the fact they play one. They just want to be able to play solo the most possible, keeping interaction with anyone to a bare minimum. As such, a tool allowing them to push a button and never interact is great. b) They are lazy and just want to be handed out everything on a platter without to do anything. As such, automated system requiring no thought nor involvement is great. c) They can't manage to find other players because they are rude, asocial or generally a PIA. The automated system do it for them. d) They are trolls, ninja an jerks and just wish to be able to randomly find victims. Here, a fair assessment in answer to yours !