BW nerfed Scoundrel/OP because it was too hard.

[sefirus]

I am lvl 50 with full champion and 2 part bm and they can hit me 6k easy. The nerf is correct.

[Mover]

Electric Bindings is useless due to resolve bars sitting capped.

 

Please dont try to explain my class to me.

[Surakis]

I'm sorry my fellow "elitists" and I understand my class and the nuances and mechanics of the game that make myself a better player than most people. Probably another 99%er that breaks my rules in the first post.

 

Then understand the changes and be a better player than everyone else.... unless it was the class that carried you....

Edited January 28, 2012 by Surakis

[sefirus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3ti-dfdA&list=UU-zp15utO36E86N60p85P-A&index=1&feature=plcp

 

Closed this stupid post.

[Thaed]

I disagree with every part of this post. I would state reasons but I don't think it'd matter.

 

If you'd state the reasons, there's a chance I'd agree with you.

 

Since you haven't, I can essentially dismiss your disagreement as it has no backing what-so-ever.

[AidenPryde]

Expertise is what is wrong with the game.

 

A little history here:

 

Blizzard Entertainment's game, "WoW," did not really have PvP at launch. There were no Battlegrounds, no PvP gear, etc.

 

The game was entirely PvE based and any PvP that did happen was all player instigated and no mechanics existed to support that play other than server rulesets.

 

So Blizzard then introduced PvP gear, and all the other things to go with it.

 

Well what happens? The PvEr's come into PvP and dominated because they had been spending the time raiding and getting the best PvE gear, while people that PvPed had no such gear.

 

Because there was no PvP gear mechanics at launch Blizzard was forced to add Resilience into the game to balance the PvE'rs and PvPers gear levels.

 

What Bioware did:

 

Bioware saw this and thought that because Blizzard's game has it they must have it too.

 

But SWTOR did not start with no PvP. Indeed it started with more PvP mechanics than WoW did at launch (/cheer Bioware). Thus if Bioware's PvP and PvE teams had spent some time communicating and balanced the time it took to get gear equally between the two activities, there should have been no need for Expertise at all in the game.

 

But Bioware thought that because WoW had it, so must they. But they screwed it up. So much so that Expertise is three times as powerful as Resilience ever was. Whereas Resilience only lowered the chance of people critting on you to prolong fights, Expertise actually buffs damage done, lessens damage taken, and buffs healing done.

 

So now all the really fun PvP to be had in the game is happening in the 1-49 bracket.

 

 

- Thoughts of a full Champion PvPer.

 

P.S.

 

Bioware. The only way to save your PvP game is not to add new content, but to re-balance the gear grind in the game so that people can PvE and get the same gear as you can in PvP for the same effort and remove Expertise or tone it down significantly.

[Talkative]

Thus if Bioware's PvP and PvE teams had spent some time communicating and balanced the time it took to get gear equally between the two activities, there should have been no need for Expertise at all in the game.

 

You know Gabe Amatangelo is in charge of PvE and PvP design.

 

You have succinctly stated the reasons he should be fired. Or at least have the decency to resign.

[Eluu]

Expertise is what is wrong with the game.

 

A little history here:

 

Blizzard Entertainment's game, "WoW," did not really have PvP at launch. There were no Battlegrounds, no PvP gear, etc.

 

The game was entirely PvE based and any PvP that did happen was all player instigated and no mechanics existed to support that play other than server rulesets.

 

So Blizzard then introduced PvP gear, and all the other things to go with it.

 

Well what happens? The PvEr's come into PvP and dominated because they had been spending the time raiding and getting the best PvE gear, while people that PvPed had no such gear.

 

Because there was no PvP gear mechanics at launch Blizzard was forced to add Resilience into the game to balance the PvE'rs and PvPers gear levels.

 

What Bioware did:

 

Bioware saw this and thought that because Blizzard's game has it they must have it too.

 

But SWTOR did not start with no PvP. Indeed it started with more PvP mechanics than WoW did at launch (/cheer Bioware). Thus if Bioware's PvP and PvE teams had spent some time communicating and balanced the time it took to get gear equally between the two activities, there should have been no need for Expertise at all in the game.

 

But Bioware thought that because WoW had it, so must they. But they screwed it up. So much so that Expertise is three times as powerful as Resilience ever was. Whereas Resilience only lowered the chance of people critting on you to prolong fights, Expertise actually buffs damage done, lessens damage taken, and buffs healing done.

 

So now all the really fun PvP to be had in the game is happening in the 1-49 bracket.

 

 

- Thoughts of a full Champion PvPer.

 

P.S.

 

Bioware. The only way to save your PvP game is not to add new content, but to re-balance the gear grind in the game so that people can PvE and get the same gear as you can in PvP for the same effort and remove Expertise or tone it down significantly.

 

Prob the best post I've ever read

[Eluu]

Then understand the changes and be a better player than everyone else.... unless it was the class that carried you....

 

I never said I wasn't still going to be good. The whole point of the post was to fight that this class is the only class that can do big damage and hardest to "counter" 1v1. Because 1v1 matters SO much.

 

That's like saying, don't let this running back run so fast because he just trucks all my corners

[Kuari]

I never said I wasn't still going to be good. The whole point of the post was to fight that this class is the only class that can do big damage and hardest to "counter" 1v1. Because 1v1 matters SO much.

 

That's like saying, don't let this running back run so fast because he just trucks all my corners

 

Except it wasn't about 1v1... it was about the ops/scoundrels who could take you out in the middle of a big battle in a matter of moments and then disappear to do it again. It was about the killing speed which BioWare wants no class to be able to achieve. It was about the helplessness during that killing speed. It was about how it only barely mattered what sort of armor you were wearing. It was about how skill didn't matter, you were pretty much going to die unless you happened to be a class with the abilities that could get you through it.

[McVade]

Oh goody, another elitist wishing to have his issues validated by his fellows.

 

Hey don't lump him with us real elitists. No member of a class that pushes 3 buttons + a consumable to blow up anyone he looks at deserves to be called elitist. Any button slapping monkey can succeed as an Op/Sc as it is.

Edited January 28, 2012 by McVade

[Lugh]

I'm sorry my fellow "elitists" and I understand my class and the nuances and mechanics of the game that make myself a better player than most people. Probably another 99%er that breaks my rules in the first post.

 

Aww isn't it cute another OP/Agent that is crying because anyone that stands up dots them and burns them down it clearly only doing it because my class is nerfed. QQ..

 

PS it takes 2-3 of your 'OP'd ' class to kill any of the decent players on my server. Myself included.

[McVade]

Bioware. The only way to save your PvP game is not to add new content, but to re-balance the gear grind in the game so that people can PvE and get the same gear as you can in PvP for the same effort and remove Expertise or tone it down significantly.

 

Warhammer has a gear grind. Warhammer fails.

 

Bioware gives same Devs who did Warhammer jobs.

 

Warhammer Devs make SWTOR have gear grind.

 

Logic anyone?

Edited January 28, 2012 by McVade

[Crimsane]

Note that he's in all medic gear, since that's his normal spec.

 

I'm not saying BW's nerf is going about it the right way, but if you deny that ops/scoundrels are op at all, you're deluding yourself.

[Deshie]

OP! Please tell me more! Your insight into Operatives and Scroundels amazes me. How do I become like you? Is there a guide I can follow?

[Bloodguard]

Bioware is incompotent. Who designed this class? Who's head is going to roll for wasting my time playing this POS?

[indelible]

Expertise is what is wrong with the game.

 

A little history here:

 

Blizzard Entertainment's game, "WoW," did not really have PvP at launch. There were no Battlegrounds, no PvP gear, etc.

 

The game was entirely PvE based and any PvP that did happen was all player instigated and no mechanics existed to support that play other than server rulesets.

 

So Blizzard then introduced PvP gear, and all the other things to go with it.

 

Well what happens? The PvEr's come into PvP and dominated because they had been spending the time raiding and getting the best PvE gear, while people that PvPed had no such gear.

 

Because there was no PvP gear mechanics at launch Blizzard was forced to add Resilience into the game to balance the PvE'rs and PvPers gear levels.

 

What Bioware did:

 

Bioware saw this and thought that because Blizzard's game has it they must have it too.

 

But SWTOR did not start with no PvP. Indeed it started with more PvP mechanics than WoW did at launch (/cheer Bioware). Thus if Bioware's PvP and PvE teams had spent some time communicating and balanced the time it took to get gear equally between the two activities, there should have been no need for Expertise at all in the game.

 

But Bioware thought that because WoW had it, so must they. But they screwed it up. So much so that Expertise is three times as powerful as Resilience ever was. Whereas Resilience only lowered the chance of people critting on you to prolong fights, Expertise actually buffs damage done, lessens damage taken, and buffs healing done.

 

So now all the really fun PvP to be had in the game is happening in the 1-49 bracket.

 

 

- Thoughts of a full Champion PvPer.

 

P.S.

 

Bioware. The only way to save your PvP game is not to add new content, but to re-balance the gear grind in the game so that people can PvE and get the same gear as you can in PvP for the same effort and remove Expertise or tone it down significantly.

 

Your post fails to acknowledge the great difficulty in taking a fixed stat system and balancing it for both PvE and PvP.

 

It is far, far, far easier to take a fixed stat system and ADD another stat to differentiate the two lines of progression (which is what had to happen). It's also less confusing for players as they can see what is going on at face value, rather than having to dig through multi-layered stats (that are already fairly confusing and obstructive).

 

The decision to implement a PvP stat may well have been inspired by WoW, but it's not BECAUSE WoW has it. It's because, quite simply, it works. What you are suggesting is a total revision to how stats are presented, which would have taken far more time and more effort than simply having the PvP stat they have now.

 

The way Expertise pans out, as you know (in your full champion gear... seriously though... no one cares about your gear; it doesn't make your point any more credible and is just arrogance), to being a flat stat when the same gear level is prevalent. The damage boost and damage reduction you enjoy against other players is negligible. Expertise has LESS impact than Resilience had or has in WoW between tiers. Furthermore the healing increase is put in place to mitigate the effects of the trauma system, that reduces healing in PvP.

 

If you go into PvP with PvE gear, expect to have difficulty against people - like myself - who have spent 4-5 hours a day PvPing, where you've spent 4-5 hours a day PvEing (and got your gear far faster). Once you're in Centurion Gear, Expertise is a pretty rubbish; you're talking about 3-4% less Expertise than those in full BM gear.

 

I WILL agree that Centurion Gear needs to be acquired faster. That's as far as I'll go though.

 

Everything else people whine about is based on ignorance and misrepresentation.

Edited January 28, 2012 by indelible

[McVade]

Note that he's in all medic gear, since that's his normal spec.

 

I'm not saying BW's nerf is going about it the right way, but if you deny that ops/scoundrels are op at all, you're deluding yourself.

 

He outplayed people, particularly that 3v1 in the beginning.

[Kuari]

Warhammer has a gear grind. Warhammer fails.

 

Bioware gives same Devs who did Warhammer jobs.

 

Warhammer Devs make SWTOR have gear grind.

 

Logic anyone?

 

...yeah, because there's totally all that many RPGs that doesn't have some kind of gear grind. Even DnD, the pen and pencil version, has a constant search for better gear.

[pewpewpewlaser]

Expertise is what is wrong with the game.

 

A little history here:

 

Blizzard Entertainment's game, "WoW," did not really have PvP at launch. There were no Battlegrounds, no PvP gear, etc.

 

The game was entirely PvE based and any PvP that did happen was all player instigated and no mechanics existed to support that play other than server rulesets.

 

So Blizzard then introduced PvP gear, and all the other things to go with it.

 

Well what happens? The PvEr's come into PvP and dominated because they had been spending the time raiding and getting the best PvE gear, while people that PvPed had no such gear.

 

Because there was no PvP gear mechanics at launch Blizzard was forced to add Resilience into the game to balance the PvE'rs and PvPers gear levels.

 

What Bioware did:

 

Bioware saw this and thought that because Blizzard's game has it they must have it too.

 

But SWTOR did not start with no PvP. Indeed it started with more PvP mechanics than WoW did at launch (/cheer Bioware). Thus if Bioware's PvP and PvE teams had spent some time communicating and balanced the time it took to get gear equally between the two activities, there should have been no need for Expertise at all in the game.

 

But Bioware thought that because WoW had it, so must they. But they screwed it up. So much so that Expertise is three times as powerful as Resilience ever was. Whereas Resilience only lowered the chance of people critting on you to prolong fights, Expertise actually buffs damage done, lessens damage taken, and buffs healing done.

 

So now all the really fun PvP to be had in the game is happening in the 1-49 bracket.

 

 

- Thoughts of a full Champion PvPer.

 

P.S.

 

Bioware. The only way to save your PvP game is not to add new content, but to re-balance the gear grind in the game so that people can PvE and get the same gear as you can in PvP for the same effort and remove Expertise or tone it down significantly.

 

This is exactly what im thinking!

Sure our class need a little nerf, but please rewind your memory back before hitting 50s and without all the PVP gear.

I only just hit 50 a while ago and played a few lv50 bracketwarzones and of cos i got absolutely trashed by practically anyone i see atm due to the gear. However, my memory with the lv10-49 bracket is still fresh, and i really dont see operative to be THAT op, perhaps a little, but nothing game breaking.

So i think its pretty obvious what's the main factor here?

Perhaps it would be more sensible for the devs team to look into the expertise more carefully before hitting us with the mega nerf bat?