No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Dartagon]

I think the real problem is that as a society we no longer understand the reasoning behind the words need, greed and wants.

 

In sales the best deception is to convince people that their wants are actually their needs. Most people who just roll need on everything should get themselves a reality check. Being a jerk just because you can doesn't justify your attitude.

 

I think the peoples attitudes are very reflective of how people act in the real world. Probably the same people who let the door close behind them or doesn't hold the elevator door.

[AsheraII]

No ..mods provide the stats and are of primary importance.

 

You are correct. orange gear is merely about cosmetics ...but that's not nearly as important.

 

Again ..you want that look ...go back later and farm for it.

 

..to me, the fact that an item is modable is just gravy over the beef.

You want those stats? Visit the GTN or a commendation vendor and buy the mods. You should've taken a look there the minute you dinged 29 in the case of this jacket, before you even set foot within that instance. You could even craft 'em yourself.

 

It's that simple really. The mods are commonly available. The cosmetics however are not. Ergo, orange gear is all about their cosmetics, the stats are of secondary importance. Ergo, a need roll on cosmetic grounds for orange gear is valid. A need roll on statistic grounds for mod gear however is not, since the need is lesser and easily sorted out through other means.

[AsheraII]

I think a weighted roll is a good idea.

I think making orange drops not have a single mod installed and have those drop seperately is a perfect idea

[Setanian]

No ..mods provide the stats and are of primary importance.

 

You are correct. orange gear is merely about cosmetics ...but that's not nearly as important.

 

Again ..you want that look ...go back later and farm for it.

 

..to me, the fact that an item is modable is just gravy over the beef.

 

The opposite applies equally well then? If you want those stats, go farm them?

 

Why should you have more precedence? You're asking for primary loot rights to something you can buy, but saying I can't have something because I'm just after looks?

 

Sounds a bit two-faced to me.

[Grecanis]

You want those stats? Visit the GTN or a commendation vendor and buy the mods. You should've taken a look there the minute you dinged 29 in the case of this jacket, before you even set foot within that instance. You could even craft 'em yourself.

 

It's that simple really. The mods are commonly available. The cosmetics however are not. Ergo, orange gear is all about their cosmetics, the stats are of secondary importance. Ergo, a need roll on cosmetic grounds for orange gear is valid. A need roll on statistic grounds for mod gear however is not, since the need is lesser and easily sorted out through other means.

 

I think you over estimate the availability of relevent mods. Especially if the player owns several orange pieces.

 

You can usually find them, yes, but normally you're settling for something lesser or overpaying for the good ones. Even the commendation vendors will only get you so far.

 

My Sentinel has two orange LS's, headgear, chest and pants. I could search all day and never find what I could get from one good drop.

 

..and heck, if you really wanted the look and it was BoE, I'd probably give it to you.

[Loendar]

You want those stats? Visit the GTN or a commendation vendor and buy the mods. You should've taken a look there the minute you dinged 29 in the case of this jacket, before you even set foot within that instance. You could even craft 'em yourself.

 

It's that simple really. The mods are commonly available. The cosmetics however are not. Ergo, orange gear is all about their cosmetics, the stats are of secondary importance. Ergo, a need roll on cosmetic grounds for orange gear is valid. A need roll on statistic grounds for mod gear however is not, since the need is lesser and easily sorted out through other means.

 

What? Orange gear is currently the ONLY fully mod-able gear in the game, followed by purple. The entire point of the orange gear is to allow it to be brought all the way from the start of the game to the end by swapping out those mods as you progress.

 

Yes, having the same 'look' is nice if you are sold on one and orange gear also fills that role if you can find a look in it that you like but the orange color in this case signifies 'custom' (It's even on the GTN under that heading) and not 'pretty'.

[Dartagon]

Needing for cosmetics is just greedy.

[SnoggyMack]

So you advocate rolling need on something you merely want?

 

Merely want? That's all that ever happens in these games. The loot is just something someone wants.

 

Since both characters rolling fully intend to equip the item ... they both roll need. Since greed does not fit that description.

 

Everyone who rolls on the item 'wants' it. And there really isn't a way to determine which person has the more important want. So to make it fair, they roll against each other. And the dice figures it out.

[Grecanis]

The opposite applies equally well then? If you want those stats, go farm them?

 

Why should you have more precedence? You're asking for primary loot rights to something you can buy, but saying I can't have something because I'm just after looks?

 

Sounds a bit two-faced to me.

 

The stats may actually be needed to facilitate farming that content. Looks aren't.

 

Aesthetics do not improve a characters ability to win a fight. You just look cooler when you die.

[SnoggyMack]

Needing for cosmetics is just greedy.

 

Needing for your own personal stats instead of the good of the group is just as greedy.

 

 

You people over-think this.

 

99 times out of 100 the loot drama takes place in some level 25 to 35 PuG where the item is a green item. And everyone flips out.

 

The rest of the time it's something like this, where it's orange customizable gear. Which by its very nature is designed to cater to people who want it for its looks.

 

Stop trying to think this through and just let people roll the dice for the item. Let the dice determine the winner. And move on. It's really just that easy.

[LifeOfMessiah]

I'm not going to try to read through all 150+ pages to respond to this. Simply put, I agree. We need to learn to be considerate to one another. A class-based looting system wouldn't be too bad. Basically, if it's not your class, or the class of your companion, you don't need it, period. If they were to prevent unmatched classes from rolling need (only greed) this would go a long way towards helping.

 

However, I do not see that happening anytime soon, so if I get grouped with someone who rolls need all the time, even when they don't really need it, I simply kick them out of the group, or leave if I can't get them kicked out. I can find better things to do with my time than deal with inconsiderate players who only care about themselves.

Edited January 29, 2012 by LifeOfMessiah

[Delekii]

Yes, I may.

 

/thread?

[SnoggyMack]

The stats may actually be needed to facilitate farming that content. Looks aren't.

 

In this particular thread's original post, stats were not needed to complete the content for the orange item the OP was whining about losing the roll on. This thread is about a mid-level marauder yoinking an orange jacket from an agent. And that agent comes to the forums to boo-hoo about it.

 

The type of content where one single drop is make or break tends to be end-game progression content.

 

And the loot drama that springs out of those situations is all based on DKP and the like and in short is a completely different topic. (Smuggler Loot threads INC soon enough so hold your horses).

Edited January 29, 2012 by SnoggyMack

[LifeOfMessiah]

Yes, I may.

 

/thread?

 

Yes, you CAN

 

NO, you MAY NOT

[Delekii]

Yes, you CAN

 

NO, you MAY NOT

 

Yes, I may.

 

/thread?

[LifeOfMessiah]

Yes, I may.

 

/thread?

 

Then you will not get very far with groups my friend, and this game will be a very poor, lonely experience for you.

[Grecanis]

Merely want? That's all that ever happens in these games. The loot is just something someone wants.

 

Since both characters rolling fully intend to equip the item ... they both roll need. Since greed does not fit that description.

 

Everyone who rolls on the item 'wants' it. And there really isn't a way to determine which person has the more important want. So to make it fair, they roll against each other. And the dice figures it out.

 

You're absolutely correct. Just about everyone wants what drops in most cases. I hear a lot of folks advocating for an equal chance at what drops, which I fully support. But they don't realise that by rolling need they have just artificially elevated themselves above thier fellows and negated any chance at an equal opportunity. All for an item they can get at any time.

[Delekii]

Then you will not get very far with groups my friend, and this game will be a very poor, lonely experience for you.

 

Oh dear. Whatever will I do.

[Grecanis]

Stop trying to think this through and just let people roll the dice for the item. Let the dice determine the winner. And move on. It's really just that easy.

 

Fine ...roll greed then

[sjmc]

You're absolutely correct. Just about everyone wants what drops in most cases. I hear a lot of folks advocating for an equal chance at what drops, which I fully support. But they don't realise that by rolling need they have just artificially elevated themselves above thier fellows and negated any chance at an equal opportunity. All for an item they can get at any time.

 

I also support an equal chance at what drops.

 

However, a Need/Greed system is what we have. If everyone presses need, then everyone gets an equal chance of getting the loot. If it is something you don't want, you can be nice and elevate the others' chance at getting it by pressing greed (or pass if you think that others could use the credits more than you).

Edited January 29, 2012 by sjmc

[Grecanis]

In this particular thread's original post, stats were not needed to complete the content for the orange item the OP was whining about losing the roll on. This thread is about a mid-level marauder yoinking an orange jacket from an agent. And that agent comes to the forums to boo-hoo about it.

 

The type of content where one single drop is make or break tends to be end-game progression content.

 

And the loot drama that springs out of those situations is all based on DKP and the like and in short is a completely different topic. (Smuggler Loot threads INC soon enough so hold your horses).

 

It doesn't matter what level the content is ..and I agree the topic name is somewhat rigid.

 

But the debate actually goes beyond the rigidity of the topic. The need/greed system is an honor system that "should" be adhered to.

 

The real issues seem to stem from folks opinions on how orange gear should be catagorised within the system. I say that modable or not, the shell is still just cosmetic and the priority should go to the stats.

[MaxonJaxon]

Ok so there seems to be four different viewpoints how loot distribution should go, at least for orange items.

 

1. No rules, roll need on whatever you want

 

2. Only roll need if you want the look

 

3. Only roll need if the mods is your class stats and improve them

 

4. Allowed to need if you intend to strip out the mods and replace them

 

Did I miss anything? Would be interesting to start a poll and see the distribution of opinions

[Setanian]

I also support an equal chance at what drops.

 

However, a Need/Greed system is what we have. If everyone presses need, then everyone gets an equal chance of getting the loot. If it is something you don't want, you can be nice and elevate the others' chance at getting it by pressing greed (or pass if you think that others could use the credits more than you).

 

Or.. Tell everyone to roll 'need'..

 

Or.. Ask BW to remove the need button entirely.

[notebene]

Ok so there seems to be four different viewpoints how loot distribution should go, at least for orange items.

 

1. No rules, roll need on whatever you want

 

2. Only roll need if you want the look

 

3. Only roll need if the mods is your class stats and improve them

 

4. Allowed to need if you intend to strip out the mods and replace them

 

Did I miss anything? Would be interesting to start a poll and see the distribution of opinions

 

Yes.

 

5. Change the boss loot system to a mission reward w/ 2 items from the boss's loot table and everyone can pick one of them, thereby negating all the discussion around 1-4.

 

If you don't get 2 things you like, you run it again and again until you get everything you want (just like people do now).

 

The only negative I see is people who get winning enjoyment from winning + someone else losing, but that seems like an acceptable loss.

[LifeOfMessiah]

Ok so there seems to be four different viewpoints how loot distribution should go, at least for orange items.

 

1. No rules, roll need on whatever you want

 

2. Only roll need if you want the look

 

3. Only roll need if the mods is your class stats and improve them

 

4. Allowed to need if you intend to strip out the mods and replace them

 

Did I miss anything? Would be interesting to start a poll and see the distribution of opinions

 

To be honest. I think this is OVERTHINKING it a bit much. Keep it simple. Number 3 is pretty standard and should be applied to every situation. All the others are just ridiculous and too rigid.

 

If it's not your class, or the class of your companion, then don't roll need, simply put. All the class that does have it the option to roll need/greed as they see fit. This has always worked out for me and those that I group with, and has never been too complicated to handle. If it's something you really want, and everyone rolls greed and you don't win..just ask the winner if you can have it. If they say no...oh well. It's not the end of the world.