Gabe Amantangelo (lead designer) discusses Operative nerf

[Arrys]

You talk as though they don't have their own internal testing team as well as numerous groups of dedicated level 50 testers on the PTS as well, both your assumptions on this matter are false btw.

 

Well if they do, those would be the same testers that found nothing worng previously...

 

Just a point.

[ammberae]

Kinda disapointed with the nerf, but I can't complain too much. So far I've enjoyed every aspect of playing an operative, I am specced into the healing tree so this doesn't affect me too much, but I can see how it would make people qq. I do wish they had a Public Test Server, because it sounds like they are just pushing certain things to deal with one issue and in doing that they're creating another issue altogether.

[Spatzimaus]

I do wish they had a Public Test Server

 

Uhh... they do. You did know about the PTS, right? Here, go read this thread in the Public Test Server forum. The PTS is hidden by default, but you can easily enable it in your server list.

[Optimism]

i posted in wrong thread Edited January 26, 2012 by Optimism
wrong thread

[Qishari]

Hello all,

 

We've had to remove several posts in the thread. We know this is a hot topic and Operatives feel very strongly on this issue. This means that discussions can easily become inflamed and turn bad quickly. We want as much constructive feedback as possible, so please make sure when you're participating in the discussion, your posts are constructive and respectful toward others.

 

Thank you.

[DieselCheezel]

For every ability that they have scored too highly we have one that is also too weak.

[karcyon]

For every ability that they have scored too highly we have one that is also too weak.

 

Yep, and that's why the Op 'fix' is not balancing, it's nerfing!

/pissed

Edited January 27, 2012 by karcyon

[danatharia]

He talked about about scoring abilities. Apparently abilities that require setup or has other limitations should do higher damage.

 

Were does that place Hidden Strike contra Tracer Missile? Requires stealth and posiitoning contra stand still and spam?

 

Just curious.

[Nemularr]

If they would just come out and say Concealment dps was too high we would have to believe it (no damage meters)....however they haven't even done this. I think there is no doubt at this point that they don't really care what this does to PvE.

 

I'm also starting to wonder if they have dps formulas or meters for internal testing. They obviously thought we were in line previously....what changed to our PvE dps since release?

[Yogurta]

Look guys.

They need to nerf operatives because warzones are full of evil concealment operatives ganking people.

 

They are so strong nobody is playing sorc/mercenary anymore. Oh wait...nevermind.

[GengisKahn]

You talk as though they don't have their own internal testing team as well as numerous groups of dedicated level 50 testers on the PTS as well, both your assumptions on this matter are false btw.

 

 

They don't have.

 

If they have those teams, then they wouldn't have amitted that the PVE consequences are not tested yet and that they will see them in the live.

 

Also, if they had those testers, how is it that they didnt notice IA Operative was OverPowered in teh first place?

 

Dont be delusional, they dont have internal testers.

 

They said int he interview they are doing these nerfs based on tables, not internal testing.

Edited January 27, 2012 by GengisKahn

[GengisKahn]

Look guys.

They need to nerf operatives because warzones are full of evil concealment operatives ganking people.

 

They are so strong nobody is playing sorc/mercenary anymore. Oh wait...nevermind.

 

Not to metion warzones are nto won by the team that have more concealment operatives.

 

Every time i enter in a warzone and i see more than one concealment operative i say "crap, this is gonna be tough to win".

 

Every time i see plenty or sorcerors and BH i feel relieved.

[Pastorfrog]

Hello all,

 

We've had to remove several posts in the thread. We know this is a hot topic and Operatives feel very strongly on this issue. This means that discussions can easily become inflamed and turn bad quickly. We want as much constructive feedback as possible, so please make sure when you're participating in the discussion, your posts are constructive and respectful toward others.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Appreciated, Qishari, but I'm sure you folks understand that it's difficult for us to provide meaningful constructive feedback on the patch when we can't character copy to the PTR and there are no premade 50s on the PTR.

 

I realize these are future features, but the lack of a combat log and the ability to meaningfully test high level play for ourselves makes it difficult to feel we can meaningfully contribute.

 

I also realize that's likely not news to you all, but it warrants being said.

 

Thanks!

[Tadus]

Nice, mod telling us to be constructive.

 

There has been tons of constructive feedback from these boards and the operative community concerning issues like PvE viability and acid blade, the resolve system, and the lack of auxiliary skills for the main WZ (huttball), making us a 1 trick gank-pony.

 

As this interview shows, little of this has mattered. A targeted nerf of HS and its kd would have been PvP only, which is what this whole issue is about. Most of the community has agreed that the acid blade nerf is confusing and not needed, a direct nerf to PvE, which operatives are not special in.

 

It literally looks like someone took a sharpie and drew a line across the top of the concealment tree and said, "hey let's nerf that."

[Wiseavatar]

Operatives have lots and lots of abilities to play with this however does not make them highly versatile it makes them complex to play well.

 

The concealment operative has an opener that if boosted with consunables/relics etc can lead to inferior geared players being killed or extemely low on health if they fail to use there own ability to get out of the stun.

 

After this opener any further immediate attacks are likely to put the operative in a low energy state requiring the use of adrenaline probe.

 

So this opening attack does not require significant skill to achieve to be effective but it requires a lot of things to be available and for the random crit gods to smile on you.

 

And of course in a PVP invironement one team mate can prevent this series of events.

 

Does this require Balancing, perhaps so but drastic reduction in damage done by the abilities is not the answer.

[Andreasus]

Please have in mind that not all operatives are playing as melee. Some of us are trying to heal. And if I count the utility of the skills then we a buff.

 

Once the Gabe Amantangelo told us all healers should be equal. Please compare the utility of all healers for the next big update.

 

Because to adjust a class does not mean always to nerf it.

[CorruptedFlesh]

He talks like a politician.

[Trimethicon]

He talks like a politician.

 

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull.

 

[CEAF]

I'd like to add the additional comment that Gabe seems well intentioned but that does not excuse the fact that he also seems oblivious to the full consequences of an across the board damage nerf plus a burst damage nerf plus a cc nerf to a class that has nothing else going for it.

[Spatzimaus]

The worrisome part of interviews like this isn't just that they're making large-scale changes to key abilities without giving us any way to test those changes objectively. The worrisome part isn't that all of the hundreds of suggestions we've made in this forum for alternatives appear to be falling on deaf ears, with not one single indication that any other options are being considered or that the devs even pondered the idea that something like the Acid Blade nerf is unnecessary. And it's not about how the least-played class is the first to take a major hit while everyone and his brother is running around playing two specific ACs that'll remain nameless.

 

No, the part that worries me is that it sounds like the developers never had any real idea of what Operatives were supposed to actually do, both in PvP and PvE. We're getting nerfed for doing exactly what a stealth class is supposed to do, and we lack many of the tools needed to do even THAT job well. We're supposed to be the Scissors to the casters' Paper, but right now we've got an environment where both Paper and Rock are crushing Scissors with ease, and it's about to get quite a bit worse.

 

I'm not the kind of person who rage-quits when my class gets nerfed. But we're already hitting a point where Operatives are being rejected from flashpoints and operations in PvE, because we bring nothing to the table that an Assassin doesn't do just as well (if not better). If we're supposed to be the class designed to take down the light armor types, in both PvP and PvE, then make us actually work that way. Give us better immunities to all those CC effects the others can use to keep us from getting into melee range, and give us some sort of ability to prevent our chosen targets from immediately activating two items and a couple instacast abiltiies to get away from our initial burst. If those extras come at the cost of a bit of our burst damage, then so be it.

[Garrix]

Ok maybe that ability does a little bit more damage than other classes can do. But he seems to overlook the fact THAT'S ALL WE GOT. Other classes have gap closers, and more effective PVP skills in general.

 

I wonder if anyone on that team has ever tried playing huttball as an agent? Every other class is pulling targets to them, or jumping up levels ontop of targets, or have AOE knockbacks to knock people down persuing the ball handler. Agents HAD damage, spike damage to eliminate ONE target to try to help keep their ball handler alive. Now that's gone, what's left?

 

AMEN bro!

 

This has been my point exactly. Peeps whine that we can take them down fast 1v1. That is our job! We have stealth and a knockdown on HB for a reason! Hey Bioware I can't pwn a PowerTech, can you make them wear cloth? BH rockets kill me, can you reduce the damage that does by 20%? According to my Cooeffient Polynomial Transnumeric damage flux compasitor, I show them being ahead of the mean!

[OklahomaSooner]

Total ********. I can't believe he made himself look like a complete fool.

 

Acid Blade nerf makes no *********** sense, Jarring is useless at 1.5 - needs to be 2s.

 

Hidden Strike damage nerf is the only one they got right - they went WAY *********** overboard, and I don't need to test it to see that.

[Rahl_Windsong]

Pure crap. They know this change will affect PVE, and they know concealment was not topping PVE damage.

 

They did this because of qq, there is no way they could test the changes in 1.1 prior to releasing the patch notes of 1.1.1. They simply didnt have any time.

 

They are destroying a whole class, and they will pay for that in susbscriptions (not mine, i dont even have a concealment operative).

 

The part in bold is the part we all have to be very afraid about now, because no matter what class you have your front end damage is doomed to be nerfed. It seems obvious to me that this team has no idea what so ever how this effects the class because there is NO WAY they could have possibly tested it in that amount of time.

[Rainsfords]

Anyone else catch the part about crafting and how Armormech is powerful, but those recopies are "secret"? Guess you need to beat Nightmare mode Soa with 4 people to get it to drop.

[clearsighted]

Gabe has always been oblivious and has always talked like a politician. Commando healers can still drop three of the hardest hitting aoes in the game, but the ops hs is somehow too powerful.