FerrusPA Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I would have chosen the underdog side had I known which one it is. Before the games start I just assumed Empire would have less people because everyone wants to be a "ololol Jedi". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I'll bite... Say I create a house with two rooms, but you can only enter one. In one room is a boring dude with a brown robe who will offer to teach you to meditate. In the other room is a bad***** with a sweet black robe who offers to teach you the secret of power. Which room do you choose? In a 2 faction game, if one side is way more attractive to players than the other...guess where they will go? What is cool and attractive is relevant to the individual. While you see the Sith as cool, I see the Sith as an army of brooding-emo-instant gratification-types. If you played both sides, you'd notice, that empire has superior artwork and the overall better storyline. And that's entirely Bioware's fault. This is also very subjective. Unless of course, you were being sarcastic. Edited January 24, 2012 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooking Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Uh, more players want to play as darth vader than luke skywalker? bioware did not create the star wars universe. Bioware DID create the ability to pick a faction. It was a design choice. They didn't have to. For all it matters, we could all be playing as Republic and be playing vs Empire NPC's through the entire game. (I don't want that at all, but once again, it shows that it was a design choice) If you create a game with 'factions' you better have some countermeasures in place to help balance them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racsofp Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The imbalance fits perfectly with the story. "No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengobotas Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Also to fix the imbalance you have to make people want to re-level which is the core problem. Leveling in this game sucks. Edited January 24, 2012 by Tengobotas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarbonzotheDude Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The players and the company are both responsible for this far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snook_ Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This is great. If Bioware did implement these faction caps and bonuses for joining the lower populated faction, there would be an even bigger uproar about this issue. People would just complain about Bioware forcing them to join a certain faction or someone would feel like they cant play with their friends because they all joined the empire or some other reason. And honestly, you're just hurting yourself by being dedicated to just one faction anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebbikenezer Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Also to fix the imbalance you have to make people want to re-level which is the core problem. Leveling in this game sucks. More subjective statements. Leveling in this game sucks: in YOUR opinion. I happen to love leveling in this game. Some others may even be in the middle of the road about it. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What is cool and attractive is relevant to the individual. While you see the Sith as cool, I see the Sith as an army of brooding-emo-instant gratification-types. That's true, but it's also true that you can design one to be more appealing to more individuals -- not *all* individuals, but more individuals than the other. That's what has happened here. Some people clearly prefer the Pubs, but most people prefer the Imps -- and most of the reasons you hear (more ******, cooler appearances, funner stories, better artwork) are things BioWare did that appeal to more people than the analogues they did on the Pub side. And that leaves aside the imbalances in the mirrors that players who have read about before side picking have based their side pick on. That's also something based on what BioWare did. It was the same in WAR -- overwhelmingly people chose Chaos because Order, by comparison (apart from people who wanted to choose Bright Wizards so they could pwn), was considered dull, staid, boring and "familiar". Republic was going to fall into that category as well (it has been done to absolute death in all previous SW titles) unless BW did it differently to make it more exciting -- something they could have done since this takes place in the KOTOR universe. But they didn't, and that clearly has helped mold playe choices. So, yes, player choice is the problem, but that choice is happening because of what BioWare presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufutiz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 by that logic, Bioware is not responsible for the success of the game either - we, the players are. Because the players will just keep playing the game anyway, doing what they do. Design doesn't matter, nobody can affect what the players do after all, right? Right? welcome to the world of social engineering Nobody is claiming faction balance in a 2-faction game is easily accomplished. Nobody can affect that though, other than the devs. The logical fallacy you fall victim to is not realizing players are more than just a consumer in this case, we are an inherent part of the game, the key component actually. one example of where Bioware's fault lies is in not counteracting the very clear and obvious - and documented, not the least by the guild deployment program - choices players would make in terms of faction. one way they could have done this would have been giving Rep characters a bonus XP/Valor/credit boost right when the servers went online, it would not have been the most elegant solution but it would have helped. That ship has sailed now. Not my fault though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'll bite... Say I create a house with two rooms, but you can only enter one. In one room is a boring dude with a brown robe who will offer to teach you to meditate. In the other room is a bad***** with a sweet black robe who offers to teach you the secret of power. Which room do you choose? In a 2 faction game, if one side is way more attractive to players than the other...guess where they will go? I think there's some truth to that. But it seems like that's a product of the IP itself. I'm not really sure how this game could get around it without warping Star Wars (and creating an RP revolt, ironically). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ummm...No It is the fact the the armor and story are lame compared to the Imps - I have tried both and seen both armors - people want to look COOL not lame - they want story of epicness not "woe is me" type BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomuningen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Bioware can't fix server imbalance, not ever, because we as players decided as a majority to go sith instead of republic, so please stop complaining about a problem Bioware did not create. Anyone care to prove me wrong? I choose to play a Bounty Hunter because I fell in love with Mako.... Please marry me Mako, you are the love of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's true, but it's also true that you can design one to be more appealing to more individuals -- not *all* individuals, but more individuals than the other. That's what has happened here. Some people clearly prefer the Pubs, but most people prefer the Imps -- and most of the reasons you hear (more ******, cooler appearances, funner stories, better artwork) are things BioWare did that appeal to more people than the analogues they did on the Pub side. And that leaves aside the imbalances in the mirrors that players who have read about before side picking have based their side pick on. That's also something based on what BioWare did. It was the same in WAR -- overwhelmingly people chose Chaos because Order, by comparison (apart from people who wanted to choose Bright Wizards so they could pwn), was considered dull, staid, boring and "familiar". Republic was going to fall into that category as well (it has been done to absolute death in all previous SW titles) unless BW did it differently to make it more exciting -- something they could have done since this takes place in the KOTOR universe. But they didn't, and that clearly has helped mold playe choices. So, yes, player choice is the problem, but that choice is happening because of what BioWare presented. This is just my opinion, but I believe that it also has to do with the nature of the majority of MMOers. While the anonymity of the internet can be a good thing, too many love to use it to be "evil" on the internet. Especially the younger crowd (which is the bulk of subscribers). They tend to cuss more, act more belligerent and do many things that would cause them tons of trouble in the real world simply because they are anonymous. I think this directly translates to faction choices in online games. In no way am I speaking of all folks who choose a "bad guy" faction, but I think it has a lot to do with the imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ummm...No It is the fact the the armor and story are lame compared to the Imps - I have tried both and seen both armors - people want to look COOL not lame - they want story of epicness not "woe is me" type BS. Stating subjective opinion as absolute fact. Laffo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I tried a Jedi Knight....it bored me. The story, my character's voice actor, the starting quests/area/enemies were all very "bleh" to me. I was disappointed because I really wanted to play a melee tank, and Sith just don't really do it for me. So I tried an Agent. The story is entertaining and I love the voice actor for my character. Guess which one I stuck with? I would consider making a Republic character if I had more character slots available on my server. If I ever get around to paying for a second account, that is when I will roll Republic, I guess. Edited January 24, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blotter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I'll bite... Say I create a house with two rooms, but you can only enter one. In one room is a boring dude with a brown robe who will offer to teach you to meditate. In the other room is a bad***** with a sweet black robe who offers to teach you the secret of power. Which room do you choose? In a 2 faction game, if one side is way more attractive to players than the other...guess where they will go? Note: Bioware did not create, nor did it design, the archetypes present in the Star Wars canon for the Republic and for the Empire. What you describe may have been a bit of a flaw inherent in the SW universe in terms of trying to apply it to an MMO, but yuo can bet your bippy that if Bioware wildly redisgned the Star Wars universe to make each side "equally attractive"...despite people having a natural tendency to want to play the bad guys or dark, power-hungry bad-sses....if they have wildly rinvented it all in order to achieve that "equally attractie/appealing" thing, we'd have witnessed SW geeks' heads exploding as far as the eye can see. The nerd rage would've been epic and akin to the outrage over the Ewoks or Jarjar Binks in the movies. In short, Bioware is not to blame for the inherent appeal of Empire versus Republic...nor should they be blamed for trying like they did to remain somewhat true to the archetypes and canon. Edited January 24, 2012 by Blotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No we are not, the only part able to control faction balance is the developer of the game, steps can be taken to make the less popolated faction more interesting to players. As wehn they added a more appealing race for the general masses for the unpopular side *bloodelfes* BW is shooting themselfes in the foot, low pop servers with big faction imbalance are utterly dead and players lost. Stop pretending Bioware is helpless to influence faction numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stejo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Analyzing your target audience, behavior patterns, psychological profiles, influences, statistics, polls, there's a whole science behind this kind of thing. Then you got data from months of beta, guild deployment program, the opportunities were there and missed one by one until it came to this. You don't just make two factions and hope for the best. You hire ppl to analyze stuff and tell you how likely it is for your target audience to pick each faction. Then they tell you what kind of improvements each faction needs to be more likely to attract more players and keep adjusting by making them cooler, prettier, whatever works until statistics tell you that it should be balanced. WoW's horde faction wasn't made ugly as hell by accident. But ok, let's just say it's the players' fault. That works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisar Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 No we are not, the only part able to control faction balance is the developer of the game, steps can be taken to make the less popolated faction more interesting to players. As wehn they added a more appealing race for the general masses for the unpopular side *bloodelfes* BW is shooting themselfes in the foot, low pop servers with big faction imbalance are utterly dead and players lost. Stop pretending Bioware is helpless to influence faction numbers. It starts with the players choice though. They can do something about it now but when I made my character I chose Empire. BW can't change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinfulness Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Wait... So its the players fault that the republic side is not as interesting or appealing at first glance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anelitt Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It starts with the players choice though. They can do something about it now but when I made my character I chose Empire. BW can't change that Stop pretending to be dumb. You know very well that BW could have seen in beta alrdeady which side was favored. There is a reason empire is mor appealing to the masses, thus its also possible to make the other faction more appealing through art/race/gear design whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 empire has a measurable pvp advantage just through resource and animation differences. That alone is enough to tip the balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmach Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Stop pretending to be dumb. You know very well that BW could have seen in beta alrdeady which side was favored. There is a reason empire is mor appealing to the masses, thus its also possible to make the other faction more appealing through art/race/gear design whatever. Won't solve it. Worst case you'll have the scale shift to the other side and Empire will be the minority. Besides who says it's art/race/gear or w/e. Everyone has his/her own reasons. This is an issue all MMOs go through because it's a consequence of being able to choose whatever you want faction/race/class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielHex Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) I tried a Jedi Knight....it bored me. The story, my character's voice actor, the starting quests/area/enemies were all very "bleh" to me. I was disappointed because I really wanted to play a melee tank, and Sith just don't really do it for me.. You gave up the questline which more or less enslaves the most powerful right-hand man of the Sith Empire, and outright kills the Sith Emporer in a one-on-one battle, for a Chiss? Edited January 24, 2012 by Trineda spolier tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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