How about BW gets some writers for any future Trooper storylines who are vets

[Jusoon]

I'm a vet, and I have to tell you, the choices and conversations you get during the Trooper storyline are pretty horrific from a military point of view.

 

Me "I have been sent by the Republic High Command. Your elite fighter squadron is needed to stem the Imperial advance"

 

Them "I don't want to. I'd rather sit behind these sandbags and shoot at escaped criminals"

 

Me "No, seriously, these are orders. You are ORDERED to return to the Republic and help them meet the Imperial onslaught"

 

Them "nah, I don't think so. If you want us to follow those orders you have to go around and do all this stupid crap on this planet"

 

Me (IRL) "FFS, can I just club this fool senseless and stow him in my cargo bay until I get him back to civilization"?

 

Me (In-game) "OK, since the fate of the Republic depends on you following these orders, I guess I'll do all this crap just to make you do that"

 

It's ridiculous...and the Light/Dark side choices seem to imply that showing any sort of discipline at all is Dark (sure, deserters, have these credits so you can take a shuttle home while your friends, who have ALSO been here 5 years, fight and die without you....+50 Light Side!)"

 

Basically, from the evidence of the writing for these story arcs, I have to assume nobody in the design/writing team at Bioware understands how military people think, much less why they HAVE to think that way. For most of the game that is of small consequence, but if you have one of your 8 available classes be "Professional Soldier", I think it would be nice if somebody on your team actually comprehends what that means.

 

Just saying...

[Aryzyra]

Discipline may be the "right" choice, but not always the "light" choice.

[Zombiscuit]

I laughed, but I actually agree with this. As someone who spent a considerable amount of time in the military, some of the conversations and acts portrayed baffle me. The one that really rankles me is all the enlisted saluting other enlisted soldiers.

 

Which is kind of odd, because they stated the series 'Band of Brothers' was one of their inspirations for this story. Maybe they should have read the book as well as watched the series?

 

Right now, the story plays out more like 'Sands of Iwo Jima' as opposed to 'Band of Brothers,' which isn't bad, but it's nowhere near as interesting.

[mightysword]

I agree that a lot of the DS/LS choices in the troopers make absolutely no sense. And some of the general quests are not either, but they're worse from a trooper respective.

 

I really wish the writers tone down the "buereucat incompetency" crap. Yes, most people don't like politicians, we get that. But when it's used as the driving stone of the story then it's not but a displaying of the lack of creativiness. It's the same issue I have with ME2, and ME1 to an extend, and I just wish they finally get out of that trench in ME3 or I'll need to curse someone.

[TehMerc]

 

It's ridiculous...and the Light/Dark side choices seem to imply that showing any sort of discipline at all is Dark (sure, deserters, have these credits so you can take a shuttle home while your friends, who have ALSO been here 5 years, fight and die without you....+50 Light Side!)"

 

 

 

I actually remember that quest. And yea it made sense in that context, the military leadership there was horrible (the guy who used credits from ship maintenance for his own stuff and got it crashed ring a bell?) and they were fighting for some rock infested with a plague that out right kills you in a day just so they can "rebuild an icon" or some such. There's a fine line between following orders and brainwashed.

 

I like that I can play my trooper as someone who actually gives a damn rather than following orders all the time, it might irk some people but they had to write things the way they did to allow people to play more than 1 type of trooper.

[Kekovian]

I'm a vet, and I have to tell you, the choices and conversations you get during the Trooper storyline are pretty horrific from a military point of view.

 

Could it be that generally the real-world military often are forced into a dark side decision even though in your heart of hearts believe it to be the right choice? bare in mind that dark side does NOT always mean the evil choice

 

Sure you might be following orders and that is what you've been trained to do. And you could be an exemplary officer in that regard. But that does not mean that all your actions are always light side and pure. Military action/invasion and occupation is inherently the dark side option as it is often the result of a light side diplomatic approach failing.

 

Having said that... I agree with you that some of the options seemed a little strange, but would that be solved by having "a vet" write the story? I hardly think so.

[DeltaGun]

I agree that a lot of the DS/LS choices in the troopers make absolutely no sense. And some of the general quests are not either, but they're worse from a trooper respective.

 

I really wish the writers tone down the "buereucat incompetency" crap. Yes, most people don't like politicians, we get that. But when it's used as the driving stone of the story then it's not but a displaying of the lack of creativiness. It's the same issue I have with ME2, and ME1 to an extend, and I just wish they finally get out of that trench in ME3 or I'll need to curse someone.

 

Don't want to spoil too much, but on the planet Voss there is a Senator who is not portrayed as incompetent. And later on, the senate as a whole is able to make a competent decisions regarding a traitor Senator and Havoc squad.

[foofad]

The writing in general on the Trooper storyline is really awful. I'm playing Trooper after having played Agent, which is fabulous, and the differences are incredible. The agent writing gets the military feel a lot more than Trooper (vis a vis your interactions with the military as an agent) which is a damn shame.

 

I'm not a vet, but I'm a huge military science fiction buff, so I know that you can do this sort of thing "right", or at the very least do it much more credit than how it was handled.

 

It's so bad, that instead of feeling like a soldier, you feel more like a cheerleader with a gun. If I had a nickel for every time I've said some stupid one liner about how Havok Squad (barf name to begin with) gets things done...

 

"You can't just barge in here!"

 

"Special forces. I do what I want."

 

Sweet Jesus.

 

And don't even get me started on the bizarre mismatched rankings for the different services. There are Ensigns in the Army, and Sergeants in the Navy.

Edited January 25, 2012 by foofad

[Makar]

*Bioware recruits Vets to write story*

 

*Story looks like a PTSD horror story*

 

 

=/

[RuQu]

Enlisted ranks saluting more senior enlisted makes sense in the SW universe, as per the codex entry on rank which puts them in order and explicitly states that everyone salutes anyone above them.

 

What is really annoying, though, is when someone salutes someone below them and calls them Sir. This happens a lot. I submit a ticket every time it happens. One quest has an Ensign saluting a Sergeant and calling the Sergeant "Sir" (and no it wasn't followed by a joke about working for living, which would have been proof a vet proofread it). After a handful of cut and paste "Thank you for your ticket...blah blah" responses, I finally got one response that was clearly custom written and said they will review the Trooper quests.

 

But yeah, I don't know many vets who are as cheerleaderish as my Trooper. They could do with being a little less cheery and a lot more world-weary and down-to-earth. Some of the middle choices are usually okay, but the light side ones are pretty awful and the DS ones would have you court-martialed in a heartbeat.

[Fafryd]

I agree with the sentiment here of those from the military on the story choices and writing.

[RudeDog]

I agree that a lot of the DS/LS choices in the troopers make absolutely no sense. And some of the general quests are not either, but they're worse from a trooper respective.

 

I really wish the writers tone down the "buereucat incompetency" crap. Yes, most people don't like politicians, we get that. But when it's used as the driving stone of the story then it's not but a displaying of the lack of creativiness. It's the same issue I have with ME2, and ME1 to an extend, and I just wish they finally get out of that trench in ME3 or I'll need to curse someone.

 

In my experience, military people hate politicians more than normal. Military people tend to have a tight relationship with their team, live by a code of honor and take an oath to defend the constitution.

 

Politicians take the same oath, but have no honor and are often liars, cheaters, and hold themselves above the masses.

 

Take one group of people that have honor that have to take orders that generate from people who have no honor and you have a hate filled environment.

[JasonSavo]

Although I'm serving in the military, I don't think a writer with a military background is required to make the story good. The story is bad because it doesn't put you in any interesting situations. Everything is straight forward, predictable, bland, run and gun checkpoint to checkpoint experience. It's sad because there are a lot of interesting concepts set up, they just choose not to explore it. Edited January 25, 2012 by JasonSavo

[Lirethion]

As a retired Vet myself the only true *** moment for me was when General Garza Ordered you to kill the three civilians for MAYBE being cybernetically enhanced..First thing that came to my mind was (sarcasm here) I could always use the I was just following Orders Defense....

 

I guess the only other thing that Grinds my A** is calling a female Officer Sir...

 

Other then that I play it like this I am the one in the blood the guts and the S**T so I am the one the makes the call not some 1...2...3...or 4 star some gazzilion light years away watching through a camera mounted on my shoulder that is Not seeing the full battlefield.

[MadMalag]

I'm more aggravated with the 'Do or die' DS/LS choices that make no since.

 

 

The 'Cyborg Sleeper Agents' on Coruscant anyone? I convinced them to give me their id numbers to be monitored. The most idiotic part of it was the whole "I would know if I'm a cyborg!' line.

 

I almost screamed at my screen: Do you have surgical scars?! You're a ******* cyborg!

 

 

And let's not forget the 'Super Weapon' from Balmorra

 

 

Missiles! Lots and lots of missiles! That take the ENTIRE planet's power, ecosystem and life juices to power! To fire MISSILES into SPEESE!

 

 

The Trooper Storyline did lose some of its flavor for me after beating Tavus, just seemed a bit bland from then on.

[Blazehound]

I have to agree that the storyline does not necessarily need a Vet to look at it, as several well known brown shooters have vets look at the story. It does however, need writers that know what they're doing.

 

The trooper storyline seems weak in comparison to every other storyline I have played.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Blazehound

[Midasear]

If you are a US veteran, the story can seem pretty unrealistic. The thing is, though, that the US military's relationship with its officers and enlistees, with the political system and with civilian society is not typical of the way powerful armies universally behave. The appropriate political frame of reference is probably not the USA, but the Holy Roman Empire just before the 30 Years War or Weimar Germany.

 

The Republic military is the product of an ancient, highly decentralized galactic confederation 1000s of years old and in the grip of a centuries long period of decadence and severe corruption. The Senate that nominally oversees the government is _not_ composed solely or even primarily of elected officials, but consists of political appointees selected by planetary governments that range from utopian enclaves to corporate oligarchies to murderous despotisms. In good times the Senate struggles to prevent the Republic's member worlds and species from waging open war on each other. In the "present", times are so bad the Senate is powerless to suppress multiple gang-led insurgencies from erupting a few klicks away from the capital building. Hell, they can't even arrange repairs to the sewer system.

 

Havock squad itself is the product of black box programs so ancient you need an team of archeologists and linguists to locate the line item in the Senate's budget, let alone decode the original authorizing documents. In the aftermath of a disastrous war, both the Senate and the Military High Command are demoralized and even more chaotically managed than usual. Worse, the High Command knows with certainty that some senators are working for local governments seriously considering defection to the Empire, and that a handful are active traitors and double agents.

 

Is it really any surprise under these circumstances that Garza and the PC get to operate on a really, really long leash? Or that discipline among the Republic's elite units ranges from fair to poor?

 

 

Yeah, yeah, this is all rationalization. But still, worth considering.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Midasear

[Rhinzual]

Still better than the writing for the Zombie Strippers movie.

[Ganjiang]

The Trooper story line post-Chapter One did feel pretty weak, but I don't think it would have turned out any better if it was written by a veteran as opposed to someone who never served. Being a former 0351 in the Marine Corps myself, the goofy protocols used by the Republic military didn't really bother me. It's not that I don't care about military regs or anything like that, but the story/presentation of the Trooper clearly isn't meant to reflect an authentic military approach. Is a fictional organization consistent with how the US military operates? No, not really, and I am cool with that.

 

I wouldn't be against the idea if the devs wanted to make the Trooper story a bit more convincing though, but I personally feel there are more important issues regarding the class that need to be addressed.

 

Cheers to all of the other veterans out there.

[foofad]

Midasear, you just accidentally proved at least the point that the writing needs to be looked at, by a veteran or otherwise; what you posted was infinitely more interesting to read than the Trooper storyline was to actually play.

[Bagdemagus]

*Runs into some random, solitary NPC standing by a pipe, on a backwater planet with no comms*

 

"Wow! Your Havoc Squad!"

 

I really got tired of seeing every single person recognize me. That's friggin not a good thing. I understand Bioware's storyline of having this squad lead the charge... doing sometimes ridiculous, non-Spec Force missions, and becoming a banner.... but they went a little overboard.

 

These guys have one of their offices in Edmonton, Canada. There's an Army Garrison at that city... seriously, make some calls, get some some guys from 1 PPCLI, and pick their brains... you'd probably see a huge improvement in writing and maybe even some important tweaks to mission design.

 

 

 

And don't tell me that everyone can instantly pick out a random clone trooper in full gear just because he has a lone "H" in Aurebesh.

[Patizor]

Enlisted ranks saluting more senior enlisted makes sense in the SW universe

 

Right. Remember, this is a galaxy far, far away.

[CaliJoe]

How many times do I have to hear 'Difficult missions are what I do best' or 'Looks like you need a solider'? I agree that after Act 1, the story is really weak.None of the 'hard work' you do gets recognized besides a one off ingame mail w/ a praise or complaint from a npc you don't remember talking to. Calling a woman officer 'sir' does annoy me as well, but that's really minor.

[Muert]

The whole "sir" issue is explained somewhere. Basically, since the military is filled with a variety of species which may or may not have sexual characteristics that are recognizable to other species, they went to "Sir" for everyone. That way you don't piss off any blue elephants by calling them "Sir" when they are clearly neuter. How can you not tell what sex they are? It is obvious just looking at their ear lobes. You are obviously a specieist.

[Abimelech]

The calling of female officers "Sir" especially when it is General Garza... ridiculous. It goes back to the story team and the art team (or whatever specific name they are called) not communicating. If the art team knew General Garza was going to be called "Sir", why did they make the character female? When speaking to General Garza the PC should always refer to her as Ma'am.

 

I can almost forgive the development teams for calling a female PC "Sir" because to make things different would have meant a "sex check" (insert juvenile joke here) line and more dialog for the voice actors/actresses. However, I wonder how much more code it would have been. The devs already have a "class check" as part of the code and dialog set up to respond to Troopers, Smugglers and Jedi (not to exclude the Empire characters) so why did the people writing code not put in a check to see if the PC was either male or female?

 

In my opinion it is just being lazy. Sure the devs might have saved a few bucks on the voice acting and the extra time for programming and debugging but the "finished" product would have been so much better.

 

 

As a USMC vet, I really do think that BW could have used some military consultants when writing the Trooper story (regardless of what military the consultants came from). I understand the idea of saluting anyone higher ranking, I can chalk that up to a different culture's military. But I am amazed at how poor the writing really was.