(PvP) Dispels and Watchmen burn effects

[Pranks]

Is anyone else concerned about healers spam dispelling our burn effects and thus reducing the effectiveness of this otherwise AMAZING PvP tree?

[phinque]

I would also like some insight on this. I want to spec watchman all the way up focusing on burns.

[Jotunn]

The watchmen burn effects I think can only be dispelled by corruption sorcerers (Purge), 30/100 force cost with a 4.5sec cooldown.

 

I wouldn't worry.

[Ganiccus]

I haven't been high level yet...but I can't imagine Watchman out-performing Combat.

[Jotunn]

I haven't been high level yet...but I can't imagine Watchman out-performing Combat.

 

Combat definitely looks more capable of frontloading damage and such, but Watchman looks more capable in survivability. Watchman also looks like it probably does more net damage, just not as bursty. If I had to split them up I'd say Combat for killing and things that need to be done quickly like peeling and focus fire, but Watchman is probably better for applying pressure to a single target or damaging multiple targets to pressure healers.

 

That said, I still plan on going Combat. To each his own.

[Jotunn]

Double Post

 

This was over in the marauder forums, I've taken the liberty of replacing Sith terms with Jedi ones and removing some unnecessary stuff.

 

I liked (in beta played up to 40), still like and will play (Combat) when I get in the game. More of a personal preference, however let's take a look at what these trees offer.

(My analysis, you are obviously free to disagree):

 

(Combat) tree - A steady DPS / PvP-oriented tree. No need to keep stuff up.

…

Pros:

 

- Revolves around a steady (1.5 second internal CD) proc.

- Can generate (Centering) while being hit, letting you get to 30 stacks faster.

- Increased Movement Speed

- Lots of (focus) to use (well, I had no problems until 40)

- No need to keep up abilities on the target. (Not even bleed, it is not cost efficient)

 

Cons:

 

- Revolves around a steady (1.5 second internal CD) proc.

- Fairly boring to play, nothing exciting happens.

- Figuring out what abilities to NOT use is a pain.

 

(Watchman) tree - A steady DPS / PvE-oriented tree. Keeping Rupture up and hitting Deadly Saber and Annihilate on CD makes all the difference .

…

Pros:

- In a long fight, the (Watchman) tree can dish out the greatest dps out of all 3 of the trees.

- Fun to play, a good amount of buttons to press

- Self-heal

- More (Centering) from (focus) spenders

- Can charge from up-close, generating more (focus)

 

Cons:

- You get the "get more (focus)" talents later than the (Combat) spec

- Considerable learning curve

- In a fight that requires movement (and there is a fair amount of them), this spec is downright weak

 

That would be it. Please keep it civil and let's discuss the difference of our opinions, if any. Keep in mind that I haven't seen the endgame, so this mostly derives from playing up to level 40 and a little bit of guesswork.

 

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

Original

[Sevitan]

The watchmen burn effects I think can only be dispelled by corruption sorcerers (Purge), 30/100 force cost with a 4.5sec cooldown.

 

I wouldn't worry.

 

When corruption Sorcs pay 15 force for purge, with a possible 9% less cost too if specced into it. And it's out of the 500 (and more likely 600) force pool.

[besbin]

To get back to the original post, as opposed to watchman v combat, no, I don't think dispels of our burns will be a problem. Dispel cooldowns coupled with a 1.5 second global cooldown plus only specific classes having access to the appropriate dispels makes it quite safe to dot away in pvp. Another factor is the very short running time of our dots - 6 seconds. Good luck to any healer. Be my guest if you want to stop healing and try to start dispelling with the rest of the damage I will be loading on top of the dots .

[Bobapes]

just a stupid question. since some of the burn effects can actually be ineffective againts some classes, which one one be the best for watchman, shii-cho form, enabling when 30 stacks to have free slash or the juyo form for the burn?

also taking in mind that juyo gives 2% more on the attacks, enabling the stack, so going for 10% and shii-cho giving +3% of damage and defense.

 

thanks in advance for the replies

[Psybin]

Juyo also gives 15% crit to our burns. And juyo zen not only does tons of damage but heals you for 18% of your life. Not to mention the party heals.

ALWAYS use juyo as watch. Unless you are like level 10 or something...

[Mal-Sharran]

Combat definitely looks more capable of frontloading damage and such, but Watchman looks more capable in survivability. Watchman also looks like it probably does more net damage, just not as bursty. If I had to split them up I'd say Combat for killing and things that need to be done quickly like peeling and focus fire, but Watchman is probably better for applying pressure to a single target or damaging multiple targets to pressure healers.

 

That said, I still plan on going Combat. To each his own.

 

The frontloading ability of the two specs is pretty similar. Combat edges out Watchman slightly in the burst department. HOWEVER. Combat dps lags after Precision falls off, where Watchman is less reliant on direct damage. Between a 6 second interrupt (as apposed to 8 seconds), dots (giving them the option to waste a gcd purging or simply eating the damage and healing through it), and the fact that Precision is a broken concept, Watchman beats Combat in both PvE and PvP right now, hands down.

 

I LOVE Combat. I love the burst, I love the style, I love the utility (ranged root in pvp is godly) but for the moment, Watchman > Combat. Sorry, it just is. You are in for nothing more than frustration if you attempt to pvp as Combat (the spec is broken, it has several verified mechanical issues associated with it that hold it back severely in PvP), not to mention it's lower centering build up, lower focus building, and less durability.

 

*edit* Because of the lag in dps after Precision wears off, many Combat Sentinels have expressed a difficulty in finishing off their opponents. They wear them down quickly, but then have a tough time finishing what they started, especially with healers. It's allllll over the forums, and from personal experience with the spec.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[deltons]

The watchmen burn effects I think can only be dispelled by corruption sorcerers (Purge), 30/100 force cost with a 4.5sec cooldown.

 

I wouldn't worry.

 

Not true. Watchman Dots are physical not force.

 

- Mercenary / Commando can dispel them baseline.

 

- Operative / Scoundrel can dispel them baseline.

 

- ONLY Healing Sorc / Sages can dispel them.

 

I play a healing merc and yes good players will dispel them. Luckily at this point in time there are only maybe 2-3 people on my server that I ever see actually making an attempt to dispel them. That may go up as people start to find their dispel key in rateds.

 

And to answer the question, yes it does make a huge difference if you dispel right as the stack hits 3. You will catch both cauterize and the whole saber stack in 1 dispel.

 

My suggestions are using Deadly Throw and Leg Slash (or spec for Cauterize slow). That will give you 4 total debuffs and healers can only dispel 2 at a time so theres a much better chance they won't get the 3 stack. An even better suggestion would be to run with a Lethality/Dirty Fighting - Sniper/Gunslinger (respectively). Though the class is super rare, they put up tech dots which perfectly complement Sentinel dots and make dispelling almost worthless.

[Dagimpster]

Double Post

 

This was over in the marauder forums, I've taken the liberty of replacing Sith terms with Jedi ones and removing some unnecessary stuff.

 

 

 

Original

 

 

i know its not your post but how is Watchmen spec cons a moving fight... its not like any of our moves need us to hold still... past master strike... which is the same for every tree.

 

Then as far as Dots. i think in Ranked Pvp you will start to see it more, personally i don't think i seen my dots dispelled but i am on a server that is low pop. 30-60 min between WZs most the time (sometimes i get back to back).

 

But as of right now there is little need of competitiveness and the ranking system will bring that into play. and will make people figure stuff out. At the same time speaking as Watchmen i would think now that our dots don't interrupt people capping/planting i think they shouldn't be allowed to dispeal. Cause once people start dispealing will will be a more suport class incharge of killing and interupting heals while your team dukes it out.

 

and yes watchmen is very good at keeping healers atleast busy. no range on leap witch is an interupt, short CD on Kick, Force Stasis, Awe, puting dots up. it may be a long fight but you are taking the healer out of the equatoin for your team to steamroll the rest.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Dagimpster

[JustinxDuff]

I haven't been high level yet...but I can't imagine Watchman out-performing Combat.

 

Watchman takes a dump on combat in PvP...especially come rated WZs.

[HollowVamp]

I haven't been high level yet...but I can't imagine Watchman out-performing Combat.

 

sad to say, as i love combat, it doesnt come close to the dmg watchman can pull off

[OdamanPrime]

Any good scoundrel/operative healer will cleanse them just because they use cleanse on CD anyways. (The cleanse is bugged and the talent to give it a heal fires twice every cleanse for up to 2.5k insta healing with low energy cost.)

[Ainianu]

very few people dispel watchman dots, i don't expect it will be an issue, i played a fair bit as watchman spec in pvp before switching to combat, and i don't think i encountered a single healer who dispelled them. Remember these are not NEW people in rated warzones, these are going to be the same people you already pvp against, if they don't dispel now, they likely still will not.

[LancerKagato]

sad to say, as i love combat, it doesnt come close to the dmg watchman can pull off

 

no not even close its sad how underpowered combat is

[Anbokr]

very few people dispel watchman dots, i don't expect it will be an issue, i played a fair bit as watchman spec in pvp before switching to combat, and i don't think i encountered a single healer who dispelled them. Remember these are not NEW people in rated warzones, these are going to be the same people you already pvp against, if they don't dispel now, they likely still will not.

 

Rated warzones up the stakes, and once that one guy makes a "How to rated warzone post"--dispelling dots is going to be at the front. Dot Dispelling will make or break teams in rateds.

 

I made a similar thread on the marauder side that's gotten a few pages of discussion; hopefully Bioware considers making dispel remove 1 physical debuff (so healers/mercs/ops choose between burning GCDs or straight healing) or gives us some built in 25-50% resistance. Right now DoT dispelling isn't a choice--there's no thought. It's always going to be better than straight healing, 99.9% of the time (1.5s to remove a crap ton of damage/slows/healing debuff, np np).

[Resuna]

Watchman takes a dump on combat in PvP...especially come rated WZs.

 

Uhh what? Come rated warzones people will just easily dispel watchman dots making it a horrible spec.

[Vodrin]

no not even close its sad how underpowered combat is

 

I really don't agree with this. I only drop about 15% in damage switching from a watchman to a combat spec. Is the damage superior with watchman? Yes, absolutely it is, but I get just about as many kills with combat, and it has advantages against certain classes.

 

I'm interested to see how this shakes out once rated warzones go in. Will dispels make watchman ineffective? I really doubt it, although watchman sents may see their damage and kills drop slightly. Funny thing is how rarely I see DoT's dispelled now, even by healers when I am attacking the healer. I'm wondering if this will change once rateds come in.

[Valastia]

I fairly often run into a sorc/sage who will dispell DoTs I put on them, but very, very rarely have I seen the same players dispel the same DoTs off their teammates. I'm not really sure why exactly; maybe it's just a concentration thing. I hope rated WZs either don't make this more prevalent, or that they give us some way to counter it as someone else said, because otherwise Watchman is going to be fairly useless. And then I would be sad.

[Enexemander]

Watchman takes a dump on combat in PvP...especially come rated WZs.

 

We're on the same server, btw. Are you going to tell me that you can burst Heal or Robout down with bleeds constantly being dispelled? I don't think so, man.

 

I love Watchman. I just don't think it's going to last through rated WZs.

[raesti]

I highly doubt you will see dispels of watchmen dots even come rated wz for one reason. Its to hard to see what buffs/rebuffs a player has on them with the current ui. So a healer can't tell what debuffs a person has on them so the gcd is better spent healing through it then guessing.

[CaptainInsano]

Yeah this is a big issue for Watchmen. Mercenaries, Operatives, and Sorcerer healers can dispel 2 stacks of DoTs every 5 seconds and totally neuter Watchmen DPS. Only the very skilled players do it at the moment, but it's devastating. In rated this practice will catch on and quite possibly kill the spec. I'm worried we might be forced to switch to Combat, so hopefully that spec will see some much needed buffs/bug fixes in 1.2. I always got the impression Watchmen was meant to be a PvE spec anyway. But yeah, if Combat doesn't get buffed and dispelling catches, Sentinels might be in trouble.