Powerr's Jedi Shadow Tanking Guide

[BigSkill]

here it is

 

 

Why you decide to change your spec ? Tired to be a tank? =P

[Powerr]

Why you decide to change your spec ? Tired to be a tank? =P

 

group was running double healer that night

 

and i'm by no means, "poor"

Edited January 26, 2012 by Powerr

[TasosKot]

Can a 31/0/10 (with dps gear) beat a full burst 2/31/8 (both with the same gear)?

[Macheath]

I'm curious. As a PvP tank, why would you want 2 points into "Double-Bladed Saber Defense" over the last 2 points into "Technique Mastery"?

 

6% additional internal/elemental resistances (which bypass armor) seems more important than a 4% increase to shielding and defense. Both defense and shields only mitigate "weapon damage," if I understand the mechanics correctly, making those stats almost useless in PvP.

 

I'd say it's worth being a little less effective against Gunslingers (one of the only classes who uses "weapon damage" as their primary source of damage, and who, quite frankly, are easy to kill as a Shadow) in exchange for a straight 6% resistance bonus against the most powerful damage types in the game. I would have argued that Technique Mastery is possibly the most important talent of the three bottom talents in the tank tree due specifically to the increased internal/elemental resistance, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

-Macheath.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Macheath

[Kupke]

i think you have to read this build as an offensive tank spec. Basically you pick up all talents that increase damage and regen. That's why talent priority is probably the regen proc over the internal/elemental resistance.

 

You can of course go all out defensive with a similar spec (shuffle some talents around) but then you'd go with defensive gear instead of offensive gear.

[Macheath]

i think you have to read this build as an offensive tank spec. Basically you pick up all talents that increase damage and regen. That's why talent priority is probably the regen proc over the internal/elemental resistance.

 

You can of course go all out defensive with a similar spec (shuffle some talents around) but then you'd go with defensive gear instead of offensive gear.

 

Seems to me that that regen proc wouldn't happen very often, if at all, in PvP, since you can only shield "white" damage in the first place. Having chosen not to take the talent, I haven't actually tested it in PvP. Perhaps I will respec and see just how often if procs. IMO, the flat 30% increase to Force regeneration is plenty in PvP, anyway, but you may be right that this talent adds significantly to the Shadow's regeneration.

 

-Macheath.

[McGrumpy]

I can't speak to 31/0/10 but as 23/0/18 a burst shadow has absolutely no chance against me in a 1v1, I doubt that changes much for the full tank spec.

[TasosKot]

I can't speak to 31/0/10 but as 23/0/18 a burst shadow has absolutely no chance against me in a 1v1, I doubt that changes much for the full tank spec.

 

Thx for ur reply i m testing 31/0/10 for 3-4 days and since now its rly good the only bad think is that i dont take the 2.5k medal so easy but i get much more from guard. Also the 1 v 1 seems better since now mass fights also. Generally i like this spec more than 2/31/8 only think left is some more replys abotu ppl who done 1 v 1 woth burst shadow. (i m using dps pvp items)

[Powerr]

I'm curious. As a PvP tank, why would you want 2 points into "Double-Bladed Saber Defense" over the last 2 points into "Technique Mastery"?

 

6% additional internal/elemental resistances (which bypass armor) seems more important than a 4% increase to shielding and defense. Both defense and shields only mitigate "weapon damage," if I understand the mechanics correctly, making those stats almost useless in PvP.

 

I'd say it's worth being a little less effective against Gunslingers (one of the only classes who uses "weapon damage" as their primary source of damage, and who, quite frankly, are easy to kill as a Shadow) in exchange for a straight 6% resistance bonus against the most powerful damage types in the game. I would have argued that Technique Mastery is possibly the most important talent of the three bottom talents in the tank tree due specifically to the increased internal/elemental resistance, but perhaps I'm missing something.

 

-Macheath.

 

because those resistances are currently broken:) you can test it on a sage or Mercenary, and watch yourself get ripped

[Powerr]

Can a 31/0/10 (with dps gear) beat a full burst 2/31/8 (both with the same gear)?

 

tank specs ideally "should" beat the dps specs, but you know how skill and gear work

 

 

There's not really any great tanking assassins on my server so I personally havn't had a problem yet, but I see why I "should" lose. If a 23/18 or 31/0/10 keeps range and shields up, I shouldnt be able to be anything but kited

[Powerr]

I will be updating the guide tonight

[Samyrius]

I love 31/0/10, it is so much more fun than 23/0/18 imo.

 

Some questions:

 

1) "If you like Shadow Strike be my guest"--why would you ever use Shadow Strike as 31 kinetic? It's weak and expensive as this spec

 

2) Why Mental Fortitude over Technique Mastery? I don't think internal/elemental resistances are bugged or broken.

 

3) Kinetic Ward and other shielding doesn't increase "deflection" (that was probably just a typo), but more importantly they only block white attacks, and most attacks in PvP are force/tech, so why bother with buffing shielding/defense anymore than you have to?

 

4) Why open with Spinning Kick when we can use it out of combat as an interrupt?

 

Thanks in advance Powerr, I like your vid.

[Powerr]

I love 31/0/10, it is so much more fun than 23/0/18 imo.

 

Some questions:

 

1) "If you like Shadow Strike be my guest"--why would you ever use Shadow Strike as 31 kinetic? It's weak and expensive as this spec

 

2) Why Mental Fortitude over Technique Mastery? I don't think internal/elemental resistances are bugged or broken.

 

3) Kinetic Ward and other shielding doesn't increase "deflection" (that was probably just a typo), but more importantly they only block white attacks, and most attacks in PvP are force/tech, so why bother with buffing shielding/defense anymore than you have to?

 

4) Why open with Spinning Kick when we can use it out of combat as an interrupt?

 

Thanks in advance Powerr, I like your vid.

 

 

1) Say an enemy is at 40% a shadow strike and execute is the fastest way to kill him regardless of how much force it takes. Like I said "be my guest" while it may be the fastest way to kill a target thats low, it has repercussions if you are still to be in combat

 

2) Endurance is more important than resistance, I don't find those resistance benefits to help much at all versus force users

 

3) Most attacks are not Force, just the harder hitting ones. If you are negating a marauder/sniper/assassin/anythings white damage, which mostly does 30-35% of total damage in a battle, you're at an advantage.

 

4) Good players don't make set-in-stone rotations, this is a guide to help you figure out the maximum way to burst a target. It's easier to burst a target thats not moving, hence the kick and setup immediately after. I don't always open with spinning kick if you are confused. The video should show you some situational choices of when and when not to use it. I generally play with a group so here's my thoughts when I was writing it

 

Shadow (Tank)

Sentinel (Main Assist)

Ranged DPS (Assister/Bad choice fallback caller)

Healer

 

Sentinel calls a target and charge interrupts his cast/1 second stun (0 resolve). Shadow runs over spinning kick (1 bar resolve:2 second stun:3 seconds total immobility with 1 bar resolve). Sentinel interrupts first cast, shadow has procs ready, pops cooldowns, hits 4 second force stun and unloads on target:sentinels dots are up now. (80% resolved: now up to 7 seconds of stunned) Ranged dps is firing away, target should be dead, having not been able to do a single thing, if necessary uses another 4 second stun to max resolve resulting in 11 seconds of stunned target with no cast times.

 

As a tank it's your duty to keep the healer cleared at all costs of course, but you also have duties to your assist train. Being the most reasonable resolve cost character in the game, you are essential to dropping targets quickly.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Powerr

[Samyrius]

1) Say an enemy is at 40% a shadow strike and execute is the fastest way to kill him regardless of how much force it takes. Like I said "be my guest" while it may be the fastest way to kill a target thats low, it has repercussions if you are still to be in combat

 

2) Endurance is more important than resistance, I don't find those resistance benefits to help much at all versus force users

 

3) Most attacks are not Force, just the harder hitting ones. If you are negating a marauder/sniper/assassin/anythings white damage, which mostly does 30-35% of total damage in a battle, you're at an advantage.

 

4) Good players don't make set-in-stone rotations, this is a guide to help you figure out the maximum way to burst a target. It's easier to burst a target thats not moving, hence the kick and setup immediately after. I don't always open with spinning kick if you are confused. The video should show you some situational choices of when and when not to use it. I generally play with a group so here's my thoughts when I was writing it

 

Shadow (Tank)

Sentinel (Main Assist)

Ranged DPS (Assister/Bad choice fallback caller)

Healer

 

Sentinel calls a target and charge interrupts his cast/1 second stun (0 resolve). Shadow runs over spinning kick (1 bar resolve:2 second stun:3 seconds total immobility with 1 bar resolve). Sentinel interrupts first cast, shadow has procs ready, pops cooldowns, hits 4 second force stun and unloads on target:sentinels dots are up now. (80% resolved: now up to 7 seconds of stunned) Ranged dps is firing away, target should be dead, having not been able to do a single thing, if necessary uses another 4 second stun to max resolve resulting in 11 seconds of stunned target with no cast times.

 

As a tank it's your duty to keep the healer cleared at all costs of course, but you also have duties to your assist train. Being the most reasonable resolve cost character in the game, you are essential to dropping targets quickly.

Good explanations, thanks. In regards to #2, 2% endurance is around 360 health if you have 18k normally, doesn't that seem really weak for 2 skill points?

[Samyrius]

Also, all Stalker, or 2 pieces Survivor for the -10 sec Spinning Kick cooldown and the extra defensive stats and Endurance?

[Powerr]

Good explanations, thanks. In regards to #2, 2% endurance is around 360 health if you have 18k normally, doesn't that seem really weak for 2 skill points?

 

I don;'t use a 2 point build, I use 3 points for 3%

 

To back my spec, I would never sacrifice another point from Nerve Wracking, I wish I could get it to 3/3 for the 9% increase damage.

 

Say a sorc Force in Balances you for 3000. Thats 270 points negated by the (assumed working talent) The 540 hp you gain outweighs the damage almost by two times.

 

Now say a teammate de-taunts your target and now he's dealing 30% less damage.

3000 x .30 = 2100 x .09 = 189 Now your extra hp is really kicking ***

[Powerr]

Also, all Stalker, or 2 pieces Survivor for the -10 sec Spinning Kick cooldown and the extra defensive stats and Endurance?

 

I'll be giving some situational updates in the thread

[Samyrius]

I don;'t use a 2 point build, I use 3 points for 3%

 

To back my spec, I would never sacrifice another point from Nerve Wracking, I wish I could get it to 3/3 for the 9% increase damage.

 

Say a sorc Force in Balances you for 3000. Thats 270 points negated by the (assumed working talent) The 540 hp you gain outweighs the damage almost by two times.

 

Now say a teammate de-taunts your target and now he's dealing 30% less damage.

3000 x .30 = 2100 x .09 = 189 Now your extra hp is really kicking ***

For Technique Mastery to be better than Mental Fortitude you have to take more than 540/0.09 = 6k internal/elemental damage in one life. Considering that you have a pocket healer, you're *definitely* going to take more than 6k internal/elemental damage in one life, possibly much more. Mitigation gets better the more healing you receive, while health doesn't.

[Powerr]

For Technique Mastery to be better than Mental Fortitude you have to take more than 540/0.09 = 6k internal/elemental damage in one life. Considering that you have a pocket healer, you're *definitely* going to take more than 6k internal/elemental damage in one life, possibly much more. Mitigation gets better the more healing you receive, while health doesn't.

 

assuming of course, it works...sure

[kingpain]

The Jedi Shadow's Guide to PvP Tanking

a tactics thread from yours truly, Powerr of <Matchless>

Updated for 1.1 patch

 

Videos

______________________________

 

 

Introduction

 

Jedi Shadows tanking spec has been recently upgraded by BioWare into being a full decked out beast. We now have an AOE snare that does nice damage on an 8 second cooldown and stacks an 5% damage debuff on all targets. This ability is also great because it does not put resolve on your target.

______________________________

 

The Spec

 

It's no secret

 

Pre-Requisites for Maximum Burst

 

New Cool-downs from 1.1 have changed up pre-requisites a bit, you no longer need adrenals as long as you have expertise pots stored up

 

-Overcharge Consumable(15% Expertise bonus for 25 seconds.)

-Power Relic

-Surge Adrenal

-Force Potency

-Battle Readiness

-if your character like mine hits Diminishing Returns on your Surge, swap your relic to Power.

 

 

Tanking Damage rotation

 

The rotation in the tanking stance goes as follows:

 

(Pre-pop Kinetic Ward, you can use it in stealth along with any buffs)

-Open with Spinning Kick (uses 1 bar of resolve on target)

-Double strike until you get Particle Acceleration procced

-Pop Requisites listed above

-Project

-Slow Time

-Should have some stacks of Harnessed Shadows

-Telekinesis Throw (should be in time to get your last stack of potency used up)

-Repeat rotation, or if you like shadow strike, be my guest

-Execute!

 

 

**note that slow time should be used off the gcd, but! is much like force breach in the sense that you need to use it directly after project for maximum burst.

 

Abilities off the GCD

 

-Kinetic Ward

-Taunt

-AOE Taunt

-Interrupt

 

 

Team Play

 

Remember that you can be doing multiple things at once in this spec. I normally peel while keeping my enemies taunted, debuffed, and snared.

 

With the new re-vamp on Guard, it makes it much easier to quickswap guard to focus fired targets. Take advantage of that, don't be the tank that is predictable. There is nothing more annoying than running around with a tank train and every target you attack is guarded as soon as you get on it. If the other team is not assisting, pick their best dps player, and detaunt him the entire game and keep slow time up. Keep snares up on the entire team if possible. Lastly, clear off your healer!!! You need him/her.

 

The most important things you need to do as a tank is peel off your healer, suppress their top dpsers, and assist burst when needed.

 

If your team is all dead and you are last alive, use it to your advantage, vanish and pop cooldowns to hold your point for as long as you can via sap, slow time, survivability.

 

Video Demonstration

[watch in HD]

 

Ideal Gear

 

I've done some digging and testing for group play and I've found it to be quite difficult to judge what the best template is for your shadow. I've been a firm believer that higher dps>more wins in warzones. Reason being, you wipe them fast enough, you get the point no questions asked. On top of that the Jedi Shadow really excels as a DPS character. We are the higher DPS of the tanks, while being a bit more squishy. We do however not have great sustainable AOE dps like say the vanguard/powertech.

 

What I have found to be best is to use mostly stalker gear with a 2 piece set bonus survivor set for the decreased cooldown on Spinning Kick.

 

This however depends on who you are playing with. If your team has lots of stuns and interrupts then you can sacrifice that survivor gear for more damage. The more stalker gear, the significant increase in damage you will receive. As most of our force attacks are not affected by tanks defense, you will truly see some nice numbers in tank spec.

 

I would however change this up if you plan to solo in WZs, as having the extra survivability without a reliable healer can truly keep you in the game and more successful.

 

My best advice (it's not absolute) would be to play your first life in what you think would work best. When you die quickly make adjustments during the match.

 

Ask yourself, could I have killed that person if I had more damage?

Ask yourself, does my team have lots of DPS?

Ask yourself, is my team heal heavy?

Ask yourself, do we need to better protect the objectives?

Ask yourself, are players getting off too many casts I could have interrupted?

 

These are things I think about as I play and adjust accordingly. People are always asking me what spec I am playing/gear using because I am CONSTANTLY changing it up situationally.

 

Glory says, "The best defense is a good offense". and it generally doesn't let me down too often.

 

I currently have 3 peice stalker and 2 peice suvivor(for spinning strike bonus)

But would like some advise for tank spec witch is the best offhand weapon to use implant and earing and relics for the tank spec? Do you recommend i use full Stalker with my suvivor wristbands and helm

 

I prefer tank build becoz its ok to react abit slower in pvp and u wont find urself dead lol, i tried the dps build its useless unless ur high kitted and reacting fast with no mistakes, tank spec seems best and seem to be getting more kills

Edited January 27, 2012 by kingpain

[BigSkill]

I continue to have aprob in wz when i have 3 4 Sorcerer, they leterally shot me in few sec when they cast lightings..... is this the same for you guys? I dont nuderstand why armor is not protecting from electrical damage... but our kinetic damage yes.... =/

[Powerr]

I currently have 3 peice stalker and 2 peice suvivor(for spinning strike bonus)

But would like some advise for tank spec witch is the best offhand weapon to use implant and earing and relics for the tank spec? Do you recommend i use full Stalker with my suvivor wristbands and helm

 

I prefer tank build becoz its ok to react abit slower in pvp and u wont find urself dead lol, i tried the dps build its useless unless ur high kitted and reacting fast with no mistakes, tank spec seems best and seem to be getting more kills

 

i use both surivor weapons 2 piece survivor set and rest stalker, that's what I would suggest

[Grapenut]

I continue to have aprob in wz when i have 3 4 Sorcerer, they leterally shot me in few sec when they cast lightings..... is this the same for you guys? I dont nuderstand why armor is not protecting from electrical damage... but our kinetic damage yes.... =/

 

It's just not you. Everyone has problems with Sorcerers.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Grapenut

[Powerr]

Yeah we're left defenseless against sorcs other than Resilience.. Our talent Technique Mastery only affect Kinetic spells, not elemental at the moment unfortunately

[kingpain]

i use both surivor weapons 2 piece survivor set and rest stalker, that's what I would suggest

 

i would of thought for kinetic build sheild generator best