enrage issues in all HM's?

[Raehj]

I'm assuming here, but I'd bet they were the DPS and the tank and the healer were fairly geared? As a healer, nothing pisses me off more than people with 11/12K HP going into a HM and jumping into a group of mobs subsequently getting killed before I can even get a 2s cast off.

 

Is it required to do Blesavis/Illum dailies before entering HM's? No, there currently is no gear restriction on it. Does it make your healers life a hell of a lot easier? You bet your ***** it does.

 

 

/agree

[Mavery]

I'm assuming here, but I'd bet they were the DPS and the tank and the healer were fairly geared? As a healer, nothing pisses me off more than people with 11/12K HP going into a HM and jumping into a group of mobs subsequently getting killed before I can even get a 2s cast off.

 

Is it required to do Blesavis/Illum dailies before entering HM's? No, there currently is no gear restriction on it. Does it make your healers life a hell of a lot easier? You bet your ***** it does.

 

So bad DPS irritates you? That's not what we're talking here. Apples and oranges.

 

There are only two fights in HM FPs where gear plays any role in a "healers life" as it were: the bonus boss in Kaon Under Siege and Mentor in Directive 7. For every other fight in the game damage is either a) avoidable or b) not significant enough to cause any major problem. Please note I am talking about damage to DPS / healers BEFORE enrage timers.

 

If you, as a healer, are being unduly stressed in any other fight, your DPS are likely bad. It's not a gear issue, it's a skill issue.

[Maglen]

So bad DPS irritates you? That's not what we're talking here. Apples and oranges.

 

There are only two fights in HM FPs where gear plays any role in a "healers life" as it were: the bonus boss in Kaon Under Siege and Mentor in Directive 7. For every other fight in the game damage is either a) avoidable or b) not significant enough to cause any major problem. Please note I am talking about damage to DPS / healers BEFORE enrage timers.

 

If you, as a healer, are being unduly stressed in any other fight, your DPS are likely bad. It's not a gear issue, it's a skill issue.

 

First. You said you steamrolled through 3 FPs. They didn't steam roll them, they were carried.

 

Second, Enrages bring 200% damage. 200% damage on a target with low (relatively) HP is going to one shot or 2 shot them. I have no plans on listing every boss that does random damage to random people in the group but there are a LOT of them, not just the one or two that you say.

 

If players don't gear properly to enter HM's enrage timers will hit and people will die and I as a geared healer will leave. My 50K repair bill doesn't need people like that.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Maglen

[Raehj]

First. You said you steamrolled through 3 FPs. They didn't steam roll them, they were carried.

 

Second, Enrages bring 200% damage. 200% damage on a target with low (relatively) HP is going to one shot or 2 shot them. I have no plans on listing every boss that does random damage to random people in the group but there are a LOT of them, not just the one or two that you say.

 

If players don't gear properly to enter HM's enrage timers will hit and people will die and I as a geared healer will leave. My 50K repair bill doesn't need people like that.

 

Luckily I almost always only group with fellow guildies, which actually is good and bad. Can't leave cause I'm angry, but I can also have a long winded vent "advice" ramble about how we can beat X boss.

 

However, I agree - gear is intertwined with skill. Both need to be worked on. What I don't get is people who spout "skillz all u nedd broh, steamrolln it cos im pro, in w34k gear" - If you're so damn skilled - why don't you go play a 100% skill based shooter or something?

[Mavery]

First. You said you steamrolled through 3 FPs. They didn't steam roll them, they were carried.

 

Second, Enrages bring 200% damage. 200% damage on a target with low (relatively) HP is going to one shot or 2 shot them. I have no plans on listing every boss that does random damage to random people in the group but there are a LOT of them, not just the one or two that you say.

 

If players don't gear properly to enter HM's enrage timers will hit and people will die and I as a geared healer will leave. My 50K repair bill doesn't need people like that.

 

When did I say my group hit enrage timers? Oh wait, I didn't. When I mentioned enrage timers it was in a general context, not my group context.

 

Fresh dinged 50s may not beat every enrage timer (some are more harsher than others). But even if you do hit them, you won't have to deal with it very long. In my experience, if you hit an enrage at any point above 5-10% (which is no big deal for the tank or healer to deal with) the DPS are beyond terrible and no amount of gear will help them.

[Maglen]

When did I say my group hit enrage timers? Oh wait, I didn't. When I mentioned enrage timers it was in a general context, not my group context.

 

 

When did I say your group hit enrage timers? Oh wait, I didn't. CWUTIDIDTHAR?

[Mavery]

When did I say your group hit enrage timers? Oh wait, I didn't. CWUTIDIDTHAR?

 

Nice try.

 

You said they were carried. If you carry two DPS it necessarily implies that the tank and healer have to be capable of dealing with the enrage for an extended period of time, or longer then would be normally expected.

 

You really should re-read what you post before you hit the submit button.

[Obbu]

If you are jumping straight into content, rather than exhausting all dailies first etc, then enrage timers are something you'll just have to accept. They are there to ensure that you dont simply spam healers at content and auto win everything in boredom mode.

 

And i am saying that as a healer

 

Not all Enrage timers are a wipe, they make life difficult, but ive had many boss kills in both FPs and raids well after the boss enraged.

 

If you want to avoid them, farm more gear in preperation for the content - otherwise just persevere.

[Gunzwei]

The mechanics of every HM I've done so far have been fairly trivial. Not nearly as rough as Rift's t1/t2 at release nor as difficult as WoW's heroics when they're "new".

 

You're group is probably hitting enrage timers either because people are not using an optimal rotation or you're focusing too much on dealing with the boss mechanics. HK-47's turrets for example in FE HM.

[Cournel]

This. Try doing the second boss of Battle for Ilum, with 2 melee dps. It makes it 10 times more difficult. And that's only an example. There are MANY fights where it's prefered to have ranged dps, instead of melee dps.

 

Gonna call ******** I'm a level 50 marauder in full columi gear(and some rakata gear) and even before this I've never had a problem beating enrage timers. I promise you that I can out damage any mercs or sniper you put infront of me and once dps meters come out I'll validate it. Stop playing with ****** melee and group up with someone who's skilled.

 

P.S. I've done every HM flashpoint. They're all easy.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Cournel

[Lord_Itharius]

hello everyone, i was wondering is it just the dps i have been teaming up with or is this just a generall issue. bassicly every HM i have attempted in HM we allways seem too meet the enrage timer, either having too kite the boss for agis if possible if not just dying, now do the dps need too get there act in gear? or is it a common problem? i mean the dps i have been with have all level 50-51 mods.

 

Your dps is insufficient. The enrage timers ARE sort of strict in HMs, considering many of them drop mostly 52 mod gear. You'll just need to find better dps or more geared dps, because the enrage issues will disappear if you run with good DPS.

[Sujimichi]

Gonna call ******** I'm a level 50 marauder in full columi gear(and some rakata gear) and even before this I've never had a problem beating enrage timers. I promise you that I can out damage any mercs or sniper you put infront of me and once dps meters come out I'll validate it. Stop playing with ****** melee and group up with someone who's skilled.

 

P.S. I've done every HM flashpoint. They're all easy.

 

My comment wasn't as much about an enrage timer but more about the fact that there's more encounter that favour range than encounters that favour melee. Besides, being in full columi gear, OF COURSE you're not gonna hit the enrage timer. But most people aren't geared like that yet.

 

At least not on my server, i'm the best geared guardian on republic side in the only guild that has actually killed a boss in NORMAL mode EV and KP. Yes, that's right. There's only 1 guild that has done those ops so far, which was us, a few days ago.

[Vegathegreat]

This kind of thinking is why I hate enrage timers. Yep lets all just screw melee and never bring them cause they like that class

 

If you are a well known good melee you dont need to worry about this, im a sentinel and honestly people beg me to join everything. I interupt every 6 seconds, i do more dps then just about anyone, its the player not the class.....

[PhoenixMatrix]

Enrage timers are the only thing that proves any form of remote challenge in HMs. That means anything that doesn't have an enrage timer is trivial. On the republic side, it means that the only bosses you may die on if your group is bad is IronFist, the last boss of Taral V (not very loose timer, but tighter than virtually all the bosses not in this list so I'm mentionning it), the Sith Entity...maybe some in Directive 7, I didn't do that one yet. Thats it.

 

Everything else is completely trivial and can even be killed with incomplete groups, and there's no cutesy mechanics to make the fight more than a button mashing contest (aside bugs, and maybe the bounty hunter in false emperor). The ops are a little more fun in that regard.

 

If you're on republic and not against one of the bosses mentionned above, you can have 1 tank and 3 healer in your party and you will do fine as far as DPS goes.

 

The balance is just weird. Take False Emperor. Against Sith Entity, you can have 4 people in full columi including a tank in DPS gears, and if someone is being a DERP, you will hit enrage (probably will be fine, but it can happen). HK-47 and Malgus however, are designed for so much less, that if your group CAN kill the Sith Entity without hitting enrage, you'll break their scripts. ie: HK will get knocked out of his targeted missile attack and assassination protocol without finishing them (which until last patch meant you were stuck with immortal turrets until you zoned out of the area), and Malgus will die before he starts channeling lightning.

 

Poor balance is poor.

Edited January 24, 2012 by PhoenixMatrix

[Zzues]

When we first entered HM (not doing any 50 normals even) we hit enrages regularly so its probably a gear issue. Now after gearing we are almost beating the final phases of bosses, if there are any with said boss.

[Canarith]

As a good healer, I just heal through the enrage damage.

 

No, you don't. I run almost every time with the same tank. As he puts it, "I can live for about 30 seconds with my cooldowns after the enrage timer hits and then I go down". What you are living through is the tank properly using his cooldowns when and if the enrage does hit. The first time we completed Foundry the other day(just hadn't chosen to do it for some reason before that), we actually hit the enrage timer and beat him after it. This most recent time, we did not hit it, so apparently we are getting a tad better at that Revan encounter.

[PhoenixMatrix]

No, you don't. I run almost every time with the same tank. As he puts it, "I can live for about 30 seconds with my cooldowns after the enrage timer hits and then I go down". What you are living through is the tank properly using his cooldowns when and if the enrage does hit. The first time we completed Foundry the other day(just hadn't chosen to do it for some reason before that), we actually hit the enrage timer and beat him after it. This most recent time, we did not hit it, so apparently we are getting a tad better at that Revan encounter.

 

Yup, pretty much. And it depends on the boss and a bit of luck. Most bosses' enrage only affect their special abilities, so if they're just attacking you normally, you won't take much more damage. Then BOOM! 15k damage, BOOM! another 15k, BOOM! another... some cooldowns will protect tanks to some extent or fully, and a healer on the dot may allow them to survive one more it, but thats it.

 

An amusing example is Vokk from Esseles. When he goes in enrage, it pretty much only affects his saber throw, and as far as enrage goes, it doesn't hurt THAT much. With careful timing on cooldowns, medpacks, etc, we beat him once even though the healer died very early in the fight to lag, and the 2 dps got 1 shotted during enrage. He was only rarely using his saber throw, and as a Shadow, I was outhealing most of his other attacks.... I probably lasted over a minute (terrible gear at the time) with no healing whatsoever, during enrage, and thus soloed him through the rest. It was pretty funny

[hardicon]

ive ran hardmode bt, bp and kaon under siege. the only enrage timer we have ever really encountered is the final boss on bt. she enrages fast and seems to always enrage for us at about 1 to 2k health, she instagibs the dps and our tank kills her himself. all other bosses were either dont encounter the enrage or their enrage is weak.

 

if you are always hitting enrage timers your dps is a bit weak, need to step that up some.

[Nessirin]

you cant bring scoundrles cause they are to squishy and have no gapcloser / 30% ae dmg reduction.

 

sniper has a -20% dmg taken raid cd + deals higher dmg than other classes + escapes some knockback mechanics cause they are in cover, yay!

 

You can bring anyone you want as long as they're good at their class. I raided hm/nm as concealment, in fact we have 2 agents in our raid group, and we've never hindered our group. Haven't hit an enrage timer yet either, with the exception of soa.

 

If you're lackluster then yeah, you probably need to bring ranged dps so they make less mistakes because of mechanics.

 

ive ran hardmode bt, bp and kaon under siege. the only enrage timer we have ever really encountered is the final boss on bt. she enrages fast and seems to always enrage for us at about 1 to 2k health, she instagibs the dps and our tank kills her himself. all other bosses were either dont encounter the enrage or their enrage is weak.

 

if you are always hitting enrage timers your dps is a bit weak, need to step that up some.

 

She enrages after the fourth pull-aoe. If you can't kill her during/right after that, everyone in the group has to either pop a defensive cooldown that prevents instagib (most people have a cd that will do it) or drop off her aggro table with a vanish. Then you get some 8-10 seconds extra before she does it again. Should be dead by then easily.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Nessirin

[hardicon]

that is interesting, didnt realize she did it at a certain point every time, thought it was a time factor. as i said we normally either knock her down right at the fourth or right after it so its hardly a factor even if one of us dies to it. most of the time she is dead before enraging anyway.

 

thanks for that info though.

[wifeaggro]

Your dps is bad. Tell them to fix their spec, fix their rotation and stop sucking.

 

Nah Enrage timers are a cheap Dev tactic to hide bad imagination and meh mechanics. Its the same group make up for every HM one tank sniper, sorc and , op heal spec or sorc heal spec. enrage timers are just lame it does not allow for any group make up other then 1 heal 2 DPs and a tank. nothing wrong with enrage timers but its BW crutch, and the community repsonding with LRn 2 ply and all your BS eleitst crap is non sense we farm these things with the same stupid group set up. but if you try to bring two heal specs just to help your guild advance with gearing the zone is not completable unless you respec. its just a crutch dude thats all it is. Rift did content with very little reliance on enrage timers and the fights there are epic in 5 man zones.

[wifeaggro]

ive ran hardmode bt, bp and kaon under siege. the only enrage timer we have ever really encountered is the final boss on bt. she enrages fast and seems to always enrage for us at about 1 to 2k health, she instagibs the dps and our tank kills her himself. all other bosses were either dont encounter the enrage or their enrage is weak.

 

if you are always hitting enrage timers your dps is a bit weak, need to step that up some.

 

need t kill her before her 5th magnet pull. thats all it is

[Mavery]

Nah Enrage timers are a cheap Dev tactic to hide bad imagination and meh mechanics. Its the same group make up for every HM one tank sniper, sorc and , op heal spec or sorc heal spec. enrage timers are just lame it does not allow for any group make up other then 1 heal 2 DPs and a tank. nothing wrong with enrage timers but its BW crutch, and the community repsonding with LRn 2 ply and all your BS eleitst crap is non sense we farm these things with the same stupid group set up. but if you try to bring two heal specs just to help your guild advance with gearing the zone is not completable unless you respec. its just a crutch dude thats all it is. Rift did content with very little reliance on enrage timers and the fights there are epic in 5 man zones.

 

So you would rather have the outgoing damage in fights made trivial by dismissing enrage timers? Sorry man, TOR is not a synonym for lawl-ezmode.

 

It's not a cheap tactic. Your suggestion would make the end game an utter joke -- much more than it is already!

[wifeaggro]

So you would rather have the outgoing damage in fights made trivial by dismissing enrage timers? Sorry man, TOR is not a synonym for lawl-ezmode.

 

It's not a cheap tactic. Your suggestion would make the end game an utter joke -- much more than it is already!

 

Rifts end game was way more diffcult then this. they had very little enrage timers. Personaly i think TOR's single group content is way to easy. enrage timers just make it a DPS race. Ive done every single 4 man on hard and its pretty damn easy. the only thing enrage timers do is limit your group make up. there are ways to increase the diffculty other a 200 % buff for every boss on a timer lol. And TOR is EZ-mode currently even with enrage timers

[KaiHeilos]

Rift also has enrage timers in their Hard Mode 5 mans and in their 10/20 mans. If you can't beat them, it's a simple L2P issue, nothing more. If you think it's some sort of crutch forcing you to bring a certain group setup and 'hide' bad mechanics then it's just that you fail at those mechanics. If you need two healers or two tanks to get an encounter done then you're doing it wrong. All anyone can say to that is L2P. Edited January 25, 2012 by KaiHeilos