enrage issues in all HM's?

[uebermann]

Can we not agree that this problem has been around since... EQ?

 

Disagree. Melee were kings of DPS until Luclin in EQ. Remember those nice weapons from ST that proc'ed avatar? Luclin finally started balacing out some of the damage.

[blubomber]

There is zero reason to take a melee dps over a ranged dps unless your back is to the wall with no other options left. HM FPs in general (just like operations) tend to be melee unfriendly.

 

i have ran every HM operation with an assasin tank, me healing, an operative, and a marauder.

 

you are wrong

[Callo]

Its really just about people getting their gear together and getting used to the fact this isn't WoW, insomuch as HM's do not seem to be the first thing you do when you hit cap.

 

No, instead it seems you need to wrap up Ilum/Belsavis dailies, hit level 50 reg FP's etc.

 

Also, I hope they don't make them easier. *I do hope, however that bugs are ironed out sooner than later*

 

I like spending hours in a new HM trying to figure things out with my guild group, and the natural advancement from always hitting enrage to almost never on many FP's.

 

Also - people who are down on melee DPS are echoing a multi-game long argument, and really just need to find a group of buds to settle in and ventrilo it up with, regardless of class.

 

Well put. Most of the QQ about raid difficulty in past games came from people who were trying to PUG it up and not doing gear checks on the members of their raid. And finding a good guild with a vent or TS3 server goes a long way.

[thorizdin]

All of the HM FPs and Operations can be done by melee but it is easier with ranged DPS than with melee DPS. I'd personally like to see a situational buff that gives bonus damage based on how close you are to the boss rather than just buffing the melee dps classes. That would let ranged classes decide where in the damage/risk scale they wanted to be and make it a little easier for melee DPS to recover from KB and the positional issues we run into. For that matter it could be done a on a boss by boss basis since many of them aren't any more challenging for melee.

[Callo]

Can we not agree that this problem has been around since... EQ?

 

 

TKM+Combat Medic?

[Nissin]

TKM+Combat Medic?

 

Yea cause SWG had raid bosses with strategies involved...I dual boxxed my TKM afk hitting a krayt dragon while shooting on rifleman very challenging.

[jonnybigboy]

This. Try doing the second boss of Battle for Ilum, with 2 melee dps. It makes it 10 times more difficult. And that's only an example. There are MANY fights where it's prefered to have ranged dps, instead of melee dps.

 

Dumb dumb and dumb. Try the fight with 2 ranged DPS and it's just as retarded. Gimmie a mellee and a ranged for that fight, any day.

 

I'm speaking as a sorc healer, here.

 

We did this fight a bunch pre-nerf with a juggie tank, sin dps and a sniper. Great comp for that.

 

Across the board, every single fight in in both HM FPs and all OPs, I want a mixed of mellee and ranged. Every time. For many, many reasons.

[Kredoria]

try running with a group that has all the buffs. we run a sorc dps i run a powertech dps (suprisingly i do really well) and we have a powertech tank. it really limits the buffs we get but we have no issues with bosses. Edited January 25, 2012 by Kredoria

[Cassatella]

Enrage timers are awfully tight for a game with no way to measure DPS.

 

this is my biggest issue with the enrage timers. i mean, the only way you can know whether or not you will beat it is if you can and try it. also, i just feel enrage timers are unnecessary at this tier of hm's. people are just starting out, you shouldn't punish them for not having their rotation or spec down perfect and for not having a certain gear level.

 

fights at this level should be purely about mechanics and whether or not people can learn and adapt to the fights themselves. there shouldn't be gear checks for 4-man fp's this early on in the game.

 

now for something like nightmare mode ops, sure, make those as hard an unforgiving as you want. that's what nmm is for, for the challenge. but hm fp's should be for people to gear up for normal mode ops and whatnot.

[MortenBork]

i have ran every HM operation with an assasin tank, me healing, an operative, and a marauder.

 

you are wrong

 

He is not wrong. The arguement that its completeable with a melee setup is completely besides the point.

 

Every HM is MUCH easier to complete with pure ranged DPS.

Simply because you can out-range most damage abilities, putting all players in safe zones by range alone.

 

Obvious examples are the droids adds in the new KuS. The grenade ability of Jorland in Boarding party.

 

well any encounter with an AoE effect.

 

Placing ranged DPS players in a safe zone and simply stay put and fire abilities is extremely simple and takes little or no coordination.

Melee players would have to watch distance to each other and the tank, and if they fail odds are they will hurt someone via an AoE ability.

While they are noticing abilities they need to interrupt.

 

in 9 out of 10 fights, the ranged dps only needs to watch the ability bar for interrupts, and they can just stay put. If a boss is supposed to be kited, or is kitable. Melee DPS usually has to manouver an effect. Ranged DPS can just stay put.

 

Melee setups are in essessence much harder to complete without stressing the healer or failing at interrupts. So please, try to actually understand a post before you declare it "Wrong" in such an arrogant manner. Try to be constructive. Argue WHY something is the way you see it, instead of simply giving a short meaningless statement.

Edited January 26, 2012 by MortenBork

[-Arcane-]

hello everyone, i was wondering is it just the dps i have been teaming up with or is this just a generall issue. bassicly every HM i have attempted in HM we allways seem too meet the enrage timer, either having too kite the boss for agis if possible if not just dying, now do the dps need too get there act in gear? or is it a common problem? i mean the dps i have been with have all level 50-51 mods.

 

baddie dps detected.

[Mavery]

Rifts end game was way more diffcult then this. they had very little enrage timers. Personaly i think TOR's single group content is way to easy. enrage timers just make it a DPS race. Ive done every single 4 man on hard and its pretty damn easy. the only thing enrage timers do is limit your group make up. there are ways to increase the diffculty other a 200 % buff for every boss on a timer lol. And TOR is EZ-mode currently even with enrage timers

 

We weren't talking about Rift's end game. We were talking about a 4-man setup of tank, 2 heals, and DPS. Considering your desire to do this setup, you probably can't beat HMs. Is your healer that bad? LOL

[jonnybigboy]

He is not wrong. The arguement that its completeable with a melee setup is completely besides the point.

 

But .. he IS wrong. The argument is that it's better to take ranged. It's simply not true. Bring a non-bad melee DPS and see for yourself.

 

Melee setups are in essessence much harder to complete without stressing the healer or failing at interrupts. So please, try to actually understand a post before you declare it "Wrong" in such an arrogant manner. Try to be constructive. Argue WHY something is the way you see it, instead of simply giving a short meaningless statement.

 

I would give you "not quite as easy" .. but harder? C'mon, be honest here. The game is pretty damned easy right now. We're tackling HM OPs and half our raid can't be bothered to even get champ gear let alone PVE gear. How much easier do you want them to make it?

 

If your point is more along the lines of "direct more fail mechanics specifically at ranged" .. than that I can agree with. But to say ranged is "better" is silly.

[Ineedmoreletters]

When i dinged 50 we did black talon 3 man and didn't hit the enrages I'm not sure how full groups ever see these things. No one was geared beyond ah and commendation gear maybe vette is just that beast at dps.

[MortenBork]

But .. he IS wrong. The argument is that it's better to take ranged. It's simply not true. Bring a non-bad melee DPS and see for yourself.

 

 

 

I would give you "not quite as easy" .. but harder? C'mon, be honest here. The game is pretty damned easy right now. We're tackling HM OPs and half our raid can't be bothered to even get champ gear let alone PVE gear. How much easier do you want them to make it?

Okaaayyyy... "Not quite as easy" = harder....

thats like saying its not more! its just not less or equal to.

 

But if your point is the game is easy, that is true. The only real runs that do require some gear is NM mode ops. And when you have the gear, its not quite as hard as you would expect.

 

If your point is more along the lines of "direct more fail mechanics specifically at ranged" .. than that I can agree with. But to say ranged is "better" is silly.

 

Well, it is better to bring ranged.

Especially if you are using pick up groups. The need to not coordinate as much makes it much easier.

Easier is better, because the run will be faster, cheaper(heck you might make money). And as you say yourself "Bring a non-bad melee and see for yourself." Well I did, and melee take much more damage on average, requiring the healer to heal more.

 

The ranged do same/better DPS. And the ranged DPS is much safer while doing this. There is little risk they will unintentionally make a mistake. Tell me how bringing better and safer DPS is not an improvement?

 

You can advocate the excellent skill will put you on par with ranged DPS but that simply isnt true. For example - Bloaters in KuS. Melee need to move away when they pop. Ranged usually do not. Adds on bonus boss in KuS? Much easier to handle when melee doesnt need to get hit constantly.

Generally when an encounter which has some sort of AoE effect, ranged DPS will out perform melee DPS regardless of skill, heck sometimes even gear!

 

Your arguement is just not true. Melee is violently gimped compared to ranged.

When you bump this thinking up to raid status, the difference is huge.

 

1 melee taking unavoidable damage from and AoE effect, or suffering DPS penality, can be replaced by non-damage taking reliable ranged DPS.

The melee classes will simply have to stand in unavoidable effects that damage them, or move away from melee range, causing them to loose DPS. And many mobs and bosses have "pure melee range" effects.

 

And being able to finish a raid 30 minutes/1 hour faster with a pure ranged setup, does not give me much incentive to bring any melee classes other then tanks.

Edited January 26, 2012 by MortenBork

[Karkais]

Nah Enrage timers are a cheap Dev tactic to hide bad imagination and meh mechanics. Its the same group make up for every HM one tank sniper, sorc and , op heal spec or sorc heal spec. enrage timers are just lame it does not allow for any group make up other then 1 heal 2 DPs and a tank. nothing wrong with enrage timers but its BW crutch, and the community repsonding with LRn 2 ply and all your BS eleitst crap is non sense we farm these things with the same stupid group set up. but if you try to bring two heal specs just to help your guild advance with gearing the zone is not completable unless you respec. its just a crutch dude thats all it is. Rift did content with very little reliance on enrage timers and the fights there are epic in 5 man zones.

 

If it wasn't tough, and you could do them with other group compositions than 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps, then the content would be pretty trivial to finish and much more boring. It just happens to be that for tough content you need to be using the optimal composition and good gear.

 

This is the first MMO where I have actually enjoyed doing group content. Absolute first. As for the enrage timers, they are tight, but doable. I think Bioware is pretty good at balancing things.

 

Try to cut down on the elitist crap though guys.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Karkais

[orberon]

its probly your dps i just started HM on my 50 sorc and while its a little tough i can still get them done 1 word "Relic's" if your dps ant using or dont have 50 relics they are wrong i usally use mine and almost never hit enrage timer

[BMBender]

I'm assuming here, but I'd bet they were the DPS and the tank and the healer were fairly geared? As a healer, nothing pisses me off more than people with 11/12K HP going into a HM and jumping into a group of mobs subsequently getting killed before I can even get a 2s cast off.

 

Is it required to do Blesavis/Illum dailies before entering HM's? No, there currently is no gear restriction on it. Does it make your healers life a hell of a lot easier? You bet your ***** it does.

 

This 10x this

[motoxkid]

Hmm if your struggeling with enrage timers your dps will need to rethink there rotations/spec, we managed the enrage timers with me (sage) and a tank geared/specced guardian as a 2nd dps lol. Edited January 26, 2012 by motoxkid

[flowqz]

But .. he IS wrong. The argument is that it's better to take ranged. It's simply not true. Bring a non-bad melee DPS and see for yourself.

 

 

 

I would give you "not quite as easy" .. but harder? C'mon, be honest here. The game is pretty damned easy right now. We're tackling HM OPs and half our raid can't be bothered to even get champ gear let alone PVE gear. How much easier do you want them to make it?

 

If your point is more along the lines of "direct more fail mechanics specifically at ranged" .. than that I can agree with. But to say ranged is "better" is silly.

 

its quite funny if u wipe on a nightmare encounter cause the scoundrel melee doesnt have 30% ae dmg reduce or if u wipe to an enrage timer cause melees have to run to their target while ranged just press tab, not even needing to face the new target... they turn around as soon as they cast. you may talk about "but shadows + sentinels have gapclosers" yes this is true but they have a cooldown and it still delays dmg till reaching it (while some encounters sometimes are unjumpable e.g. soa if hes vulnerable)

 

sorry but "i cleared all hardmode flashpoints + ops with melee" isnt the topic and not even relevant. its possible, currently we have 3melees and 2ranged in our setup, but its pretty damn frustrating if u know u just wiped because you brought a melee, while a ranged wouldnt even have taken damage.

[Exertim]

i have ran every HM operation with an assasin tank, me healing, an operative, and a marauder.

 

you are wrong

 

I'm beginning to think some of you have a severe lack of reading comprehension. I never said that it was impossible to complete the extremely easy HM FPs, just that it's more optimal to bring ranged over melee in every single endgame FP/Operation (save maybe Karagga's Palace). The fact that I 3-manned Taral V/Maelstrom as the only DPS in the group (Sentinel) goes to show how "hard" some of the hard mode FPs are.

 

Have you done NM or even HM Soa with mostly melee DPS? Go try it and tell me how well that goes compared to bringing ranged. How about Gharj? Turrets? Fact is, ranged DPS have an obvious advantage when it comes to avoiding raid damage as well as maintaining DPS uptime on the boss.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Exertim

[Windkull]

Yeah I'm actually rolling up a merc, because even though I MT for the guild, sometimes I feel like raid leading would be easier if I were playing lol tracer spam and we'd probably do better with one of the less geared tanks and an additional ranged dps (rather than the tank speccing dps with melee gear).