Grimghoul Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'd probably get banned from the forums if I said what I truly think of the OP's comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitfoot Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 It is kind of funny that people are paying for the game happily for not being able to play. Well as far as I can tell bw had a huge budget. there are like what, 50 servers? They can buy backupservers and then there will never need to be uptime longer than a few minutes. Im sure everyone reasonable can agree that a few minutes downtime a couple of times a week is acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volantiz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Since it is a US game, created in the US and based in the US it isn't bound by those laws. True, but they are trading within Calamity Europe, selling units either physically or digitally which does tie the powers that be into certain legal obligations, or else they wouldn't be able to sell in Calamity Europe in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'd probably get banned from the forums if I said what I truly think of the OP's comment... LOL in the same boat with all the QQ on post launch downtime. And all the name calling these people are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerondha Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 While that's true, the downtime here (especially for a new game) has certainly not been excessive. And they're definitely under no obligation to compensate anyone, even if it was. We all gave up any right to that when we agreed to the terms of service (section 14, if anyone's curious). Exactly that. And just because Blizzard did one thing, it doesn't mean SWTOR will. I am affected as well, since I live in Europe, but well... New game, lots of patches. We agreed to the terms of service, so claiming money/playdays back on the forums is just going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Read the eula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyrupTor Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If i wanted to play the game 24 / 7 then i might be bothered by downtime, luckily i have other things i can do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSakh Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Too many maintenance ( normal + extraordinary) in few days are not good for the future but acceptable if they do not become ordinary..... but this is not the case, it seem that the extraordinary is becoming the "ordinary" in this game, and yet there are no words of a compensation for time lost. While USA get maintenance in low affluence play time, other get the worst. Not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volantiz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Someone mentioned in General chat on board Imperial Fleet on the Pegasus Mining Facility Server (come play with us), about the possibility to initiate server patches via a staggered approach dependent on local time which euro being one of the earliest on their schedule would get patched during the night about 2am GMT, and Pacific West Coast being last on the schedule will get patch at the time it is currently being done at which is 2am local time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicfb Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm not discussing IF it breaks any rules - But boy are you wrong. If a product is sold in the EU, yes it is bound by those laws. Actually only in certain cases. Such as the box you bought yes it would have to comply but since you are playing on a US server, the actions taken on that server and not bound by EU law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derliam Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Actually only in certain cases. Such as the box you bought yes it would have to comply but since you are playing on a US server, the actions taken on that server and not bound by EU law. I'm no lawyer, but isn't Bioware providing a service that is available in Europe, and since they are selling this "product" (service) in Europe, it does fall under the same category as a physical product, aka the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerondha Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm not discussing IF it breaks any rules - But boy are you wrong. If a product is sold in the EU, yes it is bound by those laws. So if in your opinion it breaks the rules, why did you agree to the EULA in the first place and pay for the game? And no, you are wrong - the box is sold in the EU yes, but the servers aren't based in the EU, so they aren't affected by that (and with that server downtime). If the EULA was so wrong, the game wouldn't have made it here in the EU in the first place. There ARE lawyers looking through that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marius_ssd Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 What happent to one maintenance per week? I understand that the game needs improvement but the players from EU are in disadvantage cuz all the maintenances are made in EU day time (US night time), so EU players have less played hours, US players enjoy the full subscription time. Separate the maintenance queue Biowere, US maintenance in US night time and EU maintenance in EU night time. Is it so hard? I think that's normal for a mmo game! I just hope this maintenance crap, 2-3 days(7-8h/maintenante) / week, ends soon. HF swtor players, stay chill and be pacient. Biowere u should hear what EU players have to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogtrice Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 people just need to stop complaining about minor bug issues. Just deal with it. This way there would be less patches (although major bug issues should be fixed and is why I would be ok with waiting for those) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOuija Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm sure that the Bioware Defense Force is going to jump on you for this, but you have a very legitimate point. Especially if you work odd hours or live in a more distant time zone. Comp time is something that Blizzard readily handed out during WoW's early days. I think I racked up more than 20 days of time from Blizzard because of emergency patches and extended maintenance windows. I hate those damn BioWare Defense Force. But yea, I requested the same thing. Fat chance though, as they don't give a f about their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomicfb Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm no lawyer, but isn't Bioware providing a service that is available in Europe, and since they are selling this "product" (service) in Europe, it does fall under the same category as a physical product, aka the box. No, we had the discussion over on the STO forums at launch as well. Currently as the way the laws are written, when selling the box you are selling a product. Now the fact that to achieve the full use of the product, you have to go online and sign in is at the moment irrelevant as you were able to buy the product as advertised. This is covered in the disclaimer that "only game play may vary" and other disclaimers. Once you go online the product changes to a service that is no longer regulated in the same way as a standard service is since it is online. If the game was hosted on EU servers and based in the EU it would have to comply with all relevant law in the EU. Since it is not however compliance is based on a voluntary basis. This was one of the reasons Atari originally sold of it EU operations as to get out from under the EU regulatory burden they were under. (Atari has since changed and done different things I only added that as an example of how other companies were dealing with it.) That does not mean that the EU places an unnecessary burden concerning regulations but for there to be legal compliance there has to be a physical presence of some sort in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This is what you agreed to. Sorry about the CAPS, that's exactly how it is written... If you didn't agree with the EULA then why did you say you did? What you should have done is neatly repack the game, return to your retailer and obtained a refund becasue the EULA was not to you liking. The only people in the wrong here are the people trying to renage on a contgact they made with Electronic Arts and Bioware... 6. Disclaimer of Warranties. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON RECORDING MEDIA (IF APPLICABLE), AND TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES PROVIDED BY EA ARE PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENCORS (COLLECTIVELY EA FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 7) DO NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION, UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE. EA AND ITS LICENSORS DO NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME; THAT THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, VIRUS-FREE OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL BE CORRECTED. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN ADVICE PROVIDED BY EA, ITS LICENSORS, OR ANY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF OR LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATIONS ON THE APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khemizt Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 This is what you agreed to. Sorry about the CAPS, that's exactly how it is written... If you didn't agree with the EULA then why did you say you did? What you should have done is neatly repack the game, return to your retailer and obtained a refund becasue the EULA was not to you liking. The only people in the wrong here are the people trying to renage on a contgact they made with Electronic Arts and Bioware... From a legal standpoint you are correct, from a moral standpoint BW is in the wrong, It's not our fault the game was rushed out of beta, so why should we be paying for it with lost game time? 14-16 hours of downtime in a 7 day period is sad, and I will not continue to pay for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegetian Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) have you honestly added up the ammount of time you havent gotten to play the game due to downtimes? it isnt that much.. if you have any sort of life you can simply find something to do in the meantime. any downtime they have is to improve the game, I dont see how you can justify demanding free time for something that only makes the game better. it would be like demanding money off of your ice cream cone becuase they put sprinkles on it...really it doesnt make sense. Must I remind you that this game isnt WoW. and that EA/LA/BW isnt Blizzard. their business practices are/can be differnet, and thats ok. If they dont feel like we deserve free time (something that I wouldnt say no to, nor am I demanding in any way) we shouldnt complain. I think someone worked the cost out to be like 50-70 cents a day for downtime. Are you really petty enough to demand that much back from a company? Posted in a previous thread. You want statistics, here it is. There were actually 3 downtimes this week. In total around 14-16 hours. Of course all those hours were at or around the 2am-12pm period. "Originally Posted by mrromo I'd just like to point something out to the common response "its only once a week and a couple of times they had to do something during the week". Game launched on Dec 20th. There have been 20 patches since launch. Never have 2 been applied the same day. For us that can only play during patch hours that means in 44 days this game has been unavailable to us about 45% of the time. In other words no, its not once a week, its 3 out of 7 days. Love paying for things i cant use half the time... feels good." Again, more than 80% of those downtimes have been at or around the 2am-12pm time frame. While I agree you'll never get a refund..and it's probably stupid to ask for one, you can see some of the frustration of the player base (Americans and Euro's) who's play time is cut by these increasing maint. periods. Perhaps they need to utilize the test server more and refine thier implemenation process to reduce downtimes, or figure out a rotating time/maint schedule. Just some thoughts. Edited February 2, 2012 by Vegetian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakyra Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 All this is not about whether the eula ist correct and binding or not, because that does not make any difference. Especially as this may differ from country to country. Here in germany if you buy a product in a box and afterwards are obliged to accept a eula to be able to play the game, you are not legally bound to that eula no matter where the servers are located. It's all about the product that is sold here. The current problem isn't about the scheduled maintenance times. They were said to be once a week, about 8 am to 3 pm here in germany. The problem arises because there are many more maintenance downtimes, almost every week there's a second day with servers down. Depending on the times you are able to play - I for example can only play from the morning the early afternoon - the downtimes can mean you won't play a whole day. If its once a week, always the same time and day, for planned maintenance it's fine. But if there's so many added downtimes like in this game it gets very annoying and makes one reconsider continue playing and paying. I really cannot understand why people say "get a life, make something else" or "is 15$ that much to you" or "that's stated in the eula so accept it". Ever thought about that it is exactly that what makes companies like ea/bw act this way? Because the dumb player accepts almost anything the company makes. This way the companies will never learn that they should listen to the customers and make anything possible to satisfy them. No, instead they learn that they can do anything the way they like, no matter what disadvantages this has for their customers. Crediting us one or two free days would at least show a sign of "we are sorry about those massive downtimes". But as it is now I think they don't care the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filipebar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Alright so let me get this straight. You live in the EU. You are playing a game, whose servers, systems, and the company that owns and opertates it, are all based in the US. This game has bugs, and issues with it that from time to time need to be fixed, including the patch today and regularly schedule maintenance. You want them to refund you a small amount of money for the inconvienience of your prime playing time being interrupted once or twice a week for a few hours/couple of hours to fix issues with the game that effects EVERYONE. You live in the EU, the game is based in the US their scheduling is based on their time not yours. Learn to deal with it, or feel free to play a game based in Asia or some such deal. I can almost guarentee that if what caused this second patch was happening to most of the people asking for money, they would be running here kicking and screaming about how the game is broken and FIX IT NOW. The issue needed to be fixed, and its now being dealt with, have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbara Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Posted in a previous thread. You want statistics, here it is. There were actually 3 downtimes this week. In total around 14-16 hours. Of course all those hours were at or around the 2am-12pm period. Weeks start on Monday It is Tuesday Night/Wednesday Morning You say three downtimes since 12AM Monday morning? please explain. I don't recall 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There is no refunds or compensation needed. This is a game you play by bio's rules an either accept it or move on, it's as black an white as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch_TwentyTwo Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 There is no refunds or compensation needed. This is a game you play by bio's rules an either accept it or move on, it's as black an white as that. Well, I made it yellow. This is what you agreed to. Sorry about the CAPS, that's exactly how it is written... 6. Disclaimer of Warranties. EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED WARRANTY ON RECORDING MEDIA (IF APPLICABLE), AND TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE SOFTWARE, THE GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES PROVIDED BY EA ARE PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENCORS (COLLECTIVELY EA FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 7) DO NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION, UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE. EA AND ITS LICENSORS DO NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME; THAT THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, VIRUS-FREE OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE OR THE GAME WILL BE CORRECTED. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN ADVICE PROVIDED BY EA, ITS LICENSORS, OR ANY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF OR LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATIONS ON THE APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A CONSUMER, SO SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagab Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Brilliant only time off this week and no game very sad. Give us a free day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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