What is this "defense and armor" do nothing in pvp crud?

[Tierdal]

I wear a full Defense set and I tank 2-3 people w/o heals forever.

 

I wear DPS gear and I get chewed to hell.

 

My operative 2 shots unshielded sorcs... and actually has to work to kill jugs...

 

So why dont defense and armor matter again?

[Kippps]

How to prove anything:

 

Step 1. Describe an anecdote supporting what you are attempting to prove.

Step 2: Refer to anecdote.

Step 3: You have now proved it.

 

Seriously, without screenshots or some kind of evidence, a hundred people are just going to enter the thread and tell their own little stories that contradict yours.

[Quor]

How to prove anything:

 

Step 1. Describe an anecdote supporting what you are attempting to prove.

Step 2: Refer to anecdote.

Step 3: You have now proved it.

 

Seriously, without screenshots or some kind of evidence, a hundred people are just going to enter the thread and tell their own little stories that contradict yours.

 

Or better yet, I could link the youtube video that shows a level 38 Operative with 100% special move (i.e. nothing is defended/shielded) accuracy against a tank-spec tank-geared level 50 Jugg. Then said Operative shifts to normal blaster attacks, and suddenly it's shield procs and deflections everywhere.

 

[Supportive]

 

Seriously, without screenshots or some kind of evidence, a hundred people are just going to enter the thread and tell their own little stories that contradict yours.

 

 

 

I tanked the whole warzone earlier, and I mean the whole, without heals or gear!

 

/joke over.

[Rhinzual]

I tanked the whole warzone earlier, and I mean the whole, without heals or gear!

 

/joke over.

 

Sorry, they fixed /getdown

[Yfelsung]

Our defenses work against anything that does "weapon damage".

 

It doesn't work vs stuff that doesn't do weapon damage, but our armor will reduce anything that is kinetic or energy damage, even if we can't defend it.

 

I still notice this as being a net increase to survivability vs most classes.

 

Our gear gives us the +def stats for weapon damage, armor for kinetic and energy damage, and our talented 10% elemental and internal damage reduction, along with a large health pool, to deal with the other stuff.

 

For anyone who PvPed as a prot warrior in WoW, this class is pretty much like riding a bike.

[DesperadoIG]

So in other words our defense stats only work against gunslingers/snipers

 

Cool, I'm so glad I got the entropic set

 

[Yfelsung]

So in other words our defense stats only work against gunslingers/snipers

 

Cool, I'm so glad I got the entropic set

 

 

Plenty of classes have abilities that use weapon damage. Snipers and Gunslingers just happen to have abilities that almost all use weapon damage, but Marauders, Juggernauts, Mercenaries etc all use a significant amount of abilities we can defend against.

 

It's just like PvPing as a Prot Warrior in WoW.

 

We laugh at some classes and barely have to try, other classes we need to rotate our amazing amount of interrupts and stuns to keep them from casting/pulling off their combos.

 

This is pretty standard for how tanks work in MMO PvP.

[KuusouRumba]

I wear a full Defense set and I tank 2-3 people w/o heals forever.

 

I wear DPS gear and I get chewed to hell.

 

My operative 2 shots unshielded sorcs... and actually has to work to kill jugs...

 

So why dont defense and armor matter again?

 

Fight something that isnt another juggernaut/guardian?

[Tierdal]

So the defense set = worthless for pvp?

[dargor-]

So the defense set = worthless for pvp?

 

Unless your opponent are stupid enough to just auto-attack you, yeah.

[Tierdal]

Unless your opponent are stupid enough to just auto-attack you, yeah.

 

do thats sorta pathetic =/

[DsevenO]

So the defense set = worthless for pvp?

 

30-40 percent of the time, yes. The dps gear however is useful 100 percent of the time (well okay, it has too much hit, but the excess isn't wasted on your force attacks).

[Tierdal]

30-40 percent of the time, yes. The dps gear however is useful 100 percent of the time (well okay, it has too much hit, but the excess isn't wasted on your force attacks).

 

So going full dps set is better than using the tanking spec as an immortal PVP jug?

[Yfelsung]

So going full dps set is better than using the tanking spec as an immortal PVP jug?

 

Depends entirely on the class you're fighting.

 

In pure DPS gear, a Sniper is going to chunk you a lot more, but you'll be better off against classes like Sorc/Consulars that use no weapon damage.

 

With pure tank gear, Snipers/Slingers, Mercs/Commandos that don't just spam missiles and a few other classes are going to have a real hard time against you.

 

I stick to the tank gear myself and do well, but I also am a defender, I don't go for the kill, I go to strip the enemy off my healer and then re-target to get someone else off another player.

[Lymain]

Armor works against everything except Internal and Elemental damage.

 

Shield and Defense work against white damage but not yellow damage. Many significant attacks, including the Sniper's Snipe+Ambush and the Assassin's Assassinate+Maul do white damage, so it's inaccurate to say that defensive stats don't work in PvP. The misconception comes from the fact that Operative burst damage is mostly/entirely yellow, so Shield and Defense do not help you survive that (plus, they have 50% armor penetration for their burst as well).

[Samurro]

 

I stick to the tank gear myself and do well, but I also am a defender, I don't go for the kill, I go to strip the enemy off my healer and then re-target to get someone else off another player.

 

I agree with you on all of your posts here, BUT the Vindicator got 8% selfheal on Intercede which is tremendously better than 1 sec more FC!

 

And again, I don't have problems with snipers/commandos whatsoever, if they target me as an Immortal I did my job, but I can easily switch between offense and defense to dash out a bit more damage to pressure when needed.

 

Currently collecting the offensive Battlemaster pieces because of that. But still waiting for full modable epics...

[Dreadspectre]

I agree with you on all of your posts here, BUT the Vindicator got 8% selfheal on Intercede which is tremendously better than 1 sec more FC!

 

And again, I don't have problems with snipers/commandos whatsoever, if they target me as an Immortal I did my job, but I can easily switch between offense and defense to dash out a bit more damage to pressure when needed.

 

Currently collecting the offensive Battlemaster pieces because of that. But still waiting for full modable epics...

 

Don't kid yourself, healing my Jugg for 1160 once every 20 seconds when I use Intercede isn't saving anything. It's not like I'm Interceding in the middle of fighting someone either. The fact that Immortals get a 4 sec long NON channeled stun is way better(granted they fix that 1 sec bug on the set.)

 

I'll take the free heal, don't get me wrong, but to say it's better? No.

 

I do enjoy my 10% bonus on all damage for 5 seconds after leaping though.

[mrarnold]

Or better yet, I could link the youtube video that shows a level 38 Operative with 100% special move (i.e. nothing is defended/shielded) accuracy against a tank-spec tank-geared level 50 Jugg. Then said Operative shifts to normal blaster attacks, and suddenly it's shield procs and deflections everywhere.

 

 

It is common MMO knowledge that attacks from behind do not have to worry about Defense mechanics. I don't know of any MMO that this doesn't hold true.

 

I didn't watch the entire video but the first half of it is of you standing behind the tank. Try standing in front of him.

 

I understand that blaster bolts get deflected from behind sometimes in this game, but I'm almost positive that your defense is either minimized or completely negated from behind, as it should be.

[Noth]

It is common MMO knowledge that attacks from behind do not have to worry about Defense mechanics. I don't know of any MMO that this doesn't hold true.

 

I didn't watch the entire video but the first half of it is of you standing behind the tank. Try standing in front of him.

 

I understand that blaster bolts get deflected from behind sometimes in this game, but I'm almost positive that your defense is either minimized or completely negated from behind, as it should be.

 

Actually it is not minimized or negated if you are attacked from behind. This isn't other games. The reason Ops stay behind the target is to use backstab as much as possible since it is free to the concealment spec.

[DinnerYeti]

Actually it is not minimized or negated if you are attacked from behind. This isn't other games. The reason Ops stay behind the target is to use backstab as much as possible since it is free to the concealment spec.

 

This.

[IvamAkorahil]

It is common MMO knowledge that attacks from behind do not have to worry about Defense mechanics. I don't know of any MMO that this doesn't hold true.

 

defenses are not reduced by attacks from behind

 

rp reason : the force

 

the problem is, also the reason for operative backstabbing stuff is op is simply the reason that illogicaly alot of attacks that should be able to be defended against cannot be defended against

 

such as bounty hunter missles, vibroknives, all forms of sorcery

which basicly makes a defense tank useless against any class apart from ...

well, any class aslong as you find someone who doesnt spec properly for pvp

 

tanks in pvp seem useless at the moment, a rage specced warrior is significantly more useful (imagine 3 of them in a guild using vent and using their 5k smash crits all at the same time!

[Khabarach]

Don't kid yourself, healing my Jugg for 1160 once every 20 seconds when I use Intercede isn't saving anything. It's not like I'm Interceding in the middle of fighting someone either.

Why not? You should be. Interceding a healer gives them 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds and heals you if you have the set bonus. Other than Huttball where saving it may be situationally beneficial for mobility reasons, you should pretty much be using Intercede on CD.

[daays]

Armor matters.

 

Lots of classes do kinetic damage.

 

Defense/Shields however only work on range/melee attacks.

 

Only 3 classes in the game really use them for their primary damage; warriors/knights and snipers

 

And just for the record, you don't need to be tank spec to tank everyone.

 

I tanked the entire team 3 times with heals and only died cause I blew up with the huttball for holding it too long as Vengence spec.

[Schwarzwald]

I wear a full Defense set and I tank 2-3 people w/o heals forever.

 

I wear DPS gear and I get chewed to hell.

 

My operative 2 shots unshielded sorcs... and actually has to work to kill jugs...

 

So why dont defense and armor matter again?

 

It depends on the match up.

 

Its highly situational but I think alot of these complaints are cropping up when people face alot of players who have damage that goes unmitigated.

 

This complaint mostly comes from the high amount of sages and BH/commandos who's primary sources are Tech/Force attacks. Tech/Force doesn't take armor into account and (i could be wrong on this) doesn't proc shields from activating.

 

The armor helps against melee and normal blaster shots, but Operatives and Assassins who spec that bursty melee stuff can still tear through heavy armor as if it were light.

 

Its not that heavy armor is useless, its that Defense and Shields are underpowered, and when those abilities are underpowered, they in turn make accuracy underpowered and useless, which pretty much makes 3 heavily itemized stats in PvP armor somewhat wasted points.