Haven't we been through all this already? Every claimed victory condition was disproven, until Bioware came along and confirmed it was random. All wrong. See here: http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5961/screenshot2012021623204.jpg

Well apart from the obvious in that tanks don't take 40% less damage than dps, isn't this discussion about non tanks using it? Removing it from tanks would just be stupid as it removes one of the primary reasons to take a tank. The reason taunt works as a tank is because they are tougher to kill. This means that when they taunt it forces dps to either do 30% less damage to their target or switch to a different, tough to kill one. If a non-tank taunts, then the dps gets a choice between attacking their current target or switching to the taunter who is squishy. It's pretty obvious which of these is more effective. Also, I'm not sure on the other tank specs but Immortal Juggs get a lowered CD on their AoE taunt, meaning they can use it more often, hence it will have more of an effect than if a DPS is doing it. Haven't we been through this? If 2 people taunt you at once, it means they can keep taunt up for much less overall time. In other words when it runs out, you'll be free to gimp either them or their healer with full damage done. Nobody has shown this to be the case.

A class who isn't tank specced tank terribly too, Veng/Rage Juggs in particular are pretty squishy.

Why take a DPS that doesn't have off heals when you can take one that has off heals?

I dunno about Guard, but Healing definitely is. I can't imagine a team comp without Healing. I dunno about Healing but DPS definitely is. I can't imagine a team comp without DPS. etc.

Actually, these days you usually outnumber us during prime time in Ilum 1. The Rep population has increased hugely in comparison to pre 1.1 when Ilum was usually a minumum of 5:1 ratio. Wait, there are non pug Ops on Rep side? I don't think I've ever seen anything other than a pug Op on Imp side. Indeed. For PuG's, it seems to be that Rep tend to win Alderaan a bit more and Imps tend to win Huttball more, with Voidstar being semi even. We do have the distinct disadvantage of having the Sith Empire guild on the Imp side, though I suppose you do have Ix Kahorta who aren't exactly a whole lot better. Incidentally as for the OP, you are playing on a PvE server. Does it need pointing out that those (from both sides) playing this game for PvP will have rolled on a PvP server and not yours?

For me, PvE I'd choose Crushing Blow, PvP I'd chose Unstoppable.

It's fine. It has a CD and wont be up most of the time. Given that it has a CD and a single person can only keep it up for a minority of the time, if multiple enemies are taunting you at once rather than chaining them, then they are doing it wrong There is, attack the taunter, you'll do full damage. Outside of cooldowns, tank specs aren't all that much more survivable than dps are. If you increased damage to them, it'll make them fairly worthless. When taunted, you end up with red swirly bits on you and the person who taunted you has white swirly bits. It's a pretty obvious graphic. Adding a cast time or reducing the range would cripple it for PvE. Making it not worth using at all as a CC will always be better than a 30% damage reduction. They already glow white... This reduces it's usefulness hugely in PvE. For single tank bosses, your second tank should be in dps stance, if something goes wrong, they need to be able to taunt immediately and then switch to tank stance. If they have to switch to tank stance first, the boss will more than likely instagib a dps before they can get the taunt off.

If you think that, then you aren't using it correctly. It's the best 'bodyguard' spec in the game. Used correctly, healers will love you.

Defensive Jugg's can be pretty amazing in Voidstar when played right. If you come across ones who as you say do 50-75k damage and 20k protection, then the problem isn't the build, it's that they have absolutely no clue what they are doing.

I'd have 3. Verdi's Dies Irae (Day of Wrath): And for the sheer appropriatness of the titles, Manowar, Hymn of the Immortal Warrior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYZLsaI1khk or Opeth's Master's Apprentices: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G6PQLpNad8

This. Out of all the tanks, immortal Juggs are the best protectors. Our taunts are on lower CD, we have an extra damage reducer in Intercede, we have lots of CC/interrupts and a spammable snare. Being honest most tank Jugg's in PvP just plain don't know how to play their class effectively. If in a full voidstar they are getting any less than 100k+ protection, then they are doing something very, very wrong.

Given that it's the actions of your allies that cause it to happen, it's a bit silly complaining that it gives your enemies an unfair advantage. If your allies weren't constantly abandoning the queue after an invite, there wouldn't be an issue.

You don't need AoE to hit 200k, you can hit it pretty easily with just single target. Troopers and sages in particular should be able to hit 200k most of the time in Voidstar by level 20. Operatives on the other hand are actually pretty terrible at low levels as they are ridiculously resource inefficient. It gets slightly better once you get Kolto Probe at 20, with it improving a lot in the late 20's with Medical Engineering and by the time you get Surgical Probe at 30, you are pretty much set. I wouldn't worry about that too much. When getting close to 50, I could hit 400k+ in a drawn out Voidstar on my Sage. After a week of being 50, I've hit 550k+ a good few times and I haven't even specced into Revivication.

Purely for ball running, this is definitely better as it has both the cc from Immortal and Unstoppable. One suggestion I would make is to drop crash as it's of questionable benifit as it increases resolve where as the default root doesn't. If you take a point out of something like Blade Barricade too and pick up Ravager or Stagger in the Rage tree.

That actually doesn't matter all that much as the lower level you are, the more you are bolstered and the less you are reliant on gear. In fact one of the more fun things to do at level 10 once you've zoned into the WZ is to just take off all of your gear (bar weapon obviously) and just spend the entire time naked. The only stats you'll lose are the little stats you have on your level 10 gear which is tiny. I've made it a goal of mine to cap in Huttball before I get sprint with every single character I play. I've suceeded pretty easily actually. It's even better when you do it (as above) naked.

Actually there are a grand total of 14 talent points in the Immortal tree that are based around Defense or Shield. they are: (2) Quake - Accuracy is the counterpoint to Defense in the first combat roll. There's a reason PvP'ers swap out Accuracy mods if they can. (2) Lash Out - Retaliation procs only when you successfully Defend. Unsuprisingly, it doesn't proc much in PvP (3) Guard Stance - Straight Defense buff. (3) Blade Barricade - Both procs from and buffs defense. (2) Revenge - procs from Defense/Shield (2) Shield Specialisation - buffs shield It's actually impossible to avoid all of these when progressing up the tree, which kind of sucks. Making Defense/Shield useful for PvP doesn't necessarily mean that tanks will be unkillable. They could easily do something like make defense/shield increase the effectiveness of guard or taunt on players. That way it'd increase the 'flavour' BW seems to want of tanks being protectors rather than damage soakers in PvP without it making tanks unstoppable.

Immortal has a grand total of 4% more Internal damage resistance than Rage/Vengeance does. Immortal's biggest strength 1v1 is the CC it can put out. Unfortunately this doesn't really help against DoT classes as the DoT's will tick regardless of whether the person casting them is stunned or not. It'll definitely take longer for a Marauder to kill someone in Immortal spec as we've far better mitigation against their other weapon based attacks, but we're pretty much going down eventually.

They aren't. What's happening is that the queue system invites 8 from each side. All 8 may accept the popup on one side and only 5 accept it on the other, while the other 3 either time out or manually leave the queue.

As a side note a couple of things need to be pointed out in regards to comparing the tanks. First off, PT's and Juggs don't have equivalent armour values as PT's get a 16% bonus in tank stance. The armour values go in order PT >> Jugg > Sin. The 3 specs also don't have equivalent HP values. Both PT's and Sin get a 3% End bonus in their tree, where as there is none in the Jugg tree. Gear wise, there is discrepancy in the amount of Endurance present on tier gear. It works out as Sin > PT > Jugg. Personally mitigation wise I'd put PT at the top with Sin next and then Jugg. Your self heals more than make up for the armour difference, especially given the End bonus too. I'd say the opposite. If you are solo, Sin is probably the best due to being able to drop combat and reopen. Given the 8s cap time, this is pretty huge when trying to last as long as possible before reinforcements arrive. If there's a healer defending too though, Jugg would win out. Lower cd on interrupts and taunts, more stuns/CC and an extra 4s 20% damage reduction to the healer (Intercede) makes a Jugg/healer duo pretty tough to take down quickly.

Knockbacks are fairly easy to avoid on the ledges as you just have to create a parallel line between yourself/enemy and the edge of the ledge. The biggest threat to people up on the platforms are charges/leaps. If you give the ranged camping up there more LoS, then they'll have a much easier time picking everyone else off below as they can just LoS anyone that can actually charge up to them.

There aren't any 0's there, it's 8v8 with all players contributing. The people with 0 kills on the Jedi team is because they didn't kill anyone the entire game.

Why is it "'f'd up"? Both teams were (very defensive) premades and as you can see were guarding and healing like crazy. I can assure you, nobody died on our team and there were definitely very few deaths on theirs. Kills count for all opponents in a small area, hence why there'll alwaysThe Jedit when attacking were constantly focussing on one door, hence the majority of the kills were in a fairly small area. Well that's the 'most healing done wins' theory debunked then, which leaves rng or something so obscure it may as well be rng.

Since you are lacking Sweeping Fury or the additional Rage from other forms, having the extra rage from Sunder helps as it's pretty much your primary rage builder. As for intimidation, that's anything but a filler point. having a free spammable snare is godly. Keeping people away from the ball carrier, your healer etc. to give them breathing room is pretty nice. By far it's best use though is in Voidstar. You can basically make the enemy team have to constantly walk slowly to the next objective. In particular, while attacking, just after the second last door, that one ability can pretty much win you the game. Since everyone is funneled into a single corridor, have a sprint class go ahead to take the shield and door, while you spam slow everyone as they are going through. The goal is to keep them in the corridor constantly without ever killing them (otherwise they'll respawn close to the final door). With chilling scream having no cooldown or rage cost in comparison to all cleanse/purges costing resources and having cd's, there's only ever going to be one winner. If someone tries to sprint to break it, let them go >10m, then just charge, push them back up the corridor, then charge again. Combine it with backhand, force choke, intimidating roar and stun grenade and you can cause havoc. I've actually managed it a good few times with a pocket healer where we've kept the entire enemy team at bay, with our team planting the bomb on the final door before they've even managed to leave the corridor and us reaching the core before they managed to get past the shield. Sonic barrier gives a bit of on demand mitigation, it's not huge, but it's something and is another mini cooldown when ball carrying etc. Dark blood gives us a bit more defense against the damage type that will completely rip us apart, since internal/elemental damage ignores armour, defense and shields. With Pooled Hatred, all of our melee abilities are weak anyway, so personally I don't see the point in a situational buff to their damage. The DoT on draining scream would be nice to stop someone capping as you mention, but for the fact that it only lasts 6 seconds. You are better off just running with a sorc/op healer that has DoT's and them using it or even buying a bunch of pyro grenades. Ruin, I'd love to have, but in general I prefer the other stuff in Immortal. Overall though, if aiming solely for objective play, a chunk of it will eventually come down to personal preference. Getting up as far as Backhand/Force Grip in Immortal and Unstoppable in Veng is definitely the way to go though.

That's crazy talk. When you leap, you root someone anyway, all Crash does is bump up their resolve bar by stunning them instead. Bumping up their resolve bar is an incredibly bad idea. It'll prevent you from things like leaping to ball carrier on platform, then force pushing them off. Backhand on the other hand is amazing. It's incredible for locking down healers etc. as you can get off chains like charge, smash, interrupt, push, charge, stun, interrupt, stun. If you keep them locked down that much, they are completely useless for the duration. It depends what you want, full 31 in Immortal will get you a bit more dps, but less utility. This is one of my favourite builds though. Aim is pretty much just to be a tank and just not focus on dps at all: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crufzMrozMZhRr0MZM.1