Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

[Darth_Eminok]

Honestly, if the situation was the same as it was in Beta and you could actually KILL Quinn, I would have done it in a heartbeat! 2V actually makes a really good Healer when fitted out right.

 

That said, I have the next best alternative. Since my SW Juggernaut is a Pureblood, I have no problem with bringing him out and pimpsmacking him upside the head just for ****s and grins..... and because he's a Baras suckup.

 

Yeah... BETA was really good, they actually kept their promises there...

 

Then came launch and theuy removed all the immersion and good stuff.

[JediElf]

I think it's a huge credit to Biowares writing team that people feel so strongly, and so divided over this plot point.

 

It really makes me wonder what they have in store for chapter 4, and how our decisions will affect Quinn, and our own characters.

[Captain_Zone]

I think it's a huge credit to Biowares writing team that people feel so strongly, and so divided over this plot point.

 

It really makes me wonder what they have in store for chapter 4, and how our decisions will affect Quinn, and our own characters.

 

Can't wait for Chapter 4 here. Especially for the Imperial Agent. I literally have no predictions on it, since I couldn't predict any of the plot twists in Chapters 1 - 3.

[Foxrynn]

My thoughts on this...

 

 

Quinn...Sith Warriors should have the ability to end his traitorous bum once they were deemed the "Emperor's Wrath". I mean, since you only answer to the Emperor and killing a snobby imperial officer that has no direct effect to the Council, you in turn, can get away with it and still have a strong party/family type situation. Also, since you're practically higher on the list than the Dark Council members, you have ultimate pickings on new recruits if need be... I think Sith Warriors should be able to exercise their rights as the Emperor's Wrath.

 

[JediElf]

While I guess the consensus is that he ought to be killed (with the exception of me and, possibly two other people), I still say that a ton of story potential exists due to the fallout of his actions.

 

I mean what if he snaps (and i kinda hope he does, an unhinged Quinn would be quite scary)? What if he runs off and we can either go after him, or not? What if something else is revealed along the way, something horrible?

 

Part of me really hopes that Bioware is going to continue the story in chapter four, and give us some options for punishment or forgiveness. it could get really interesting...if they have the time to do it. ^_^

 

(now I have the urge to write fanfic o_O)

Edited May 2, 2012 by JediElf

[KorinHyvek]

I'm in the wouldn't kill him camp, but then, I'm also of the opinion Sith Mind Control was involved.

[bright_ephemera]

I'm not that interested in Quinn's future plot, because it has been made clear to me that this story is being told without my input.

 

I absolutely loved everything, everything, up until my DS choice let him live and my character said "Here is my plot rail, I will let you ride on it with me."

 

Talking about the future story potential here is like listening to the school bully talk about the future buying potential of the lunch money he just shook you down for. I'm sure some great things could happen with it, but it's not happening for my enjoyment, so why should I care?

[NickM]

I'm not that interested in Quinn's future plot, because it has been made clear to me that this story is being told without my input.

 

I absolutely loved everything, everything, up until my DS choice let him live and my character said "Here is my plot rail, I will let you ride on it with me."

 

Talking about the future story potential here is like listening to the school bully talk about the future buying potential of the lunch money he just shook you down for. I'm sure some great things could happen with it, but it's not happening for my enjoyment, so why should I care?

 

Really though, the only reason the murder of Quinn was changed because people in beta couldn't come to terms with "I killed that character and now he's gone. I'm out a healer and a crafting slave." And the tickets flooded in, asking CS personnel to restore their dead characters. (And the exact same thing would happen now, in even greater numbers.)

 

I know it's a plot-rail, and it bugs me too. But some people ruined it for us and that's why we can't have nice things.

 

What I would be fine with is the ability to kill off companions and just buy a droid to replace them on your ship to do your crafting. You could also give them "kits" to specialize them in whatever role your companion originally fit in to.

[bright_ephemera]

Really though, the only reason the murder of Quinn was changed because people in beta couldn't come to terms with "I killed that character and now he's gone. I'm out a healer and a crafting slave." And the tickets flooded in, asking CS personnel to restore their dead characters. (And the exact same thing would happen now, in even greater numbers.)

 

I know it's a plot-rail, and it bugs me too. But some people ruined it for us and that's why we can't have nice things.

 

What I would be fine with is the ability to kill off companions and just buy a droid to replace them on your ship to do your crafting. You could also give them "kits" to specialize them in whatever role your companion originally fit in to.

 

I can think of a number of reversible, non-permadeath solutions that my character would've accepted for the sake of mechanics:

 

• Slave collar him
  
• Sell him to the Hutts
  
• Maroon him on Tatooine
  
• Leave him in an escape pod orbiting the sixth moon of Ilum
  
• Freeze him in carbonite, work the slab into a coffee table and sell it as avant-garde art
  
• Drop him in a penal colony somewhere
  
• (my personal favorite) Court-martial him, demote him and station him in a dead-end job on Balmorra
  
• DO ANYTHING BUT SAY "COME BACK ON BOARD, THIS'LL BE OUR LITTLE SECRET"
  

Edited May 2, 2012 by bright_ephemera
Added a list item

[JediElf]

I'm in the wouldn't kill him camp, but then, I'm also of the opinion Sith Mind Control was involved.

 

Yay! Someone else! That makes three of us now...I think... o_O

 

Also yea I also agree about, the Sith mind control aspect. That could very well be true.

 

And really, Umm...Some of us are interested in future plot point because, like any goof Bioware game, we have choices, and we see the actions of characters in a different light, with different perspectives.

 

I think it's perfectly fine if they re-instate the option to kill companions, go for it if thats what you want. I just hope, like I've said before, as far as this plot is concerned, they have some future things in store if we keep him.

 

bright_ephemera you may see it as a bully on plot rails, but I see the complexity for a character having to come to terms with what they've tried to do to someone they were either in love with, or had a great deal of respect for.To me, that has a lot of potential for some very deep character development, if the writers have the time to do so.

 

That being said I do like the idea of possibly slave collaring him, or having that as a temporary punishment option. That a huge plot can of worms right there, and something that a writer could explore, perhaps to a greater degree than if one keeps Vettes collar on....and I did.

 

I man...I can't really be the only one, who has this perspective, on what happened...can I?

Edited May 2, 2012 by JediElf

[G_Vega]

Too bad I had never seen this thread until today. I hate that dude so much! When he attempted to pull off Baras' job, he was so smug, I just wanted to stab him in both eyes with my light sabers. I would have kicked him off the ship had I been given the option. Needless to say that he was "confined to quarters" for the remainder of my leveling (too bad his "quarters" are my ship's bridge.

 

I really want to jettison him out the airlock

[KorinHyvek]

I think a droid replacement for him and/or a slave collar are certainly fitting options. Be nice if we could set Jaesa on him though... Not like that, I meant to determine if he's trustworthy. Although giving him to DS Jaesa is another possibility that I could see but would rather not think about.

[JediElf]

I think a droid replacement for him and/or a slave collar are certainly fitting options. Be nice if we could set Jaesa on him though... Not like that, I meant to determine if he's trustworthy. Although giving him to DS Jaesa is another possibility that I could see but would rather not think about.

 

I can't help it...

 

Hehehe, why do I get the feeling setting DS Jaesa on his might just be...'like that'. Best punishment idea ever!

 

I could just see him lounging in the captains chair, lighting a cigarette after 'punishment', and resting his feet on the star map.

 

 

Or if you never romanced her, he'd be confined to DS Jaesa's quarters, for the remainder of the game.

 

Mwhahaha!

Edited May 2, 2012 by JediElf

[Mechavomit]

I could just see him lounging in the captains chair, lighting a cigarette after 'punishment', and resting his feet on the star map.

 

 

So he'd be attempting to murder your SW every day? =)

Edited May 2, 2012 by Mechavomit

[Rushka]

I've seen posts analysing this incident and Quinn's dialogue, positing that he expects, even wants to be killed.

 

I don't agree that he expects to fail - all I got from the conversation was an arrogant more than slightly smug sense of self satisfaction that he'd fooled the SW. He seemed certain he was going to win the fight.

 

I'm leveling another SW who's up to Voss so this convo is coming up again soon. I'll pay careful attention and see if I change my mind.

 

(Be interesting to see how well he does after spending all his time on the ship making things. That uniform he's wearing must be a bit smelly by now )

[Bigdaddygarlic]

The game's decided your character is more intelligent than you, pretty much.

 

By this I mean, not all Sith are 'RABBLE RABBLE BLOOD AND GUTS RABBLE RABBLE'.

 

Some are smart enough to recognize valuable resources and not waste them.

 

You have no idea what you speak of sith kill people for fun but traders are ok rite?

The player should be the one to decide if he lives or dies its their legacy if other sith found

out it would make them think you were weak and they would be rite.

[Kalterien]

Oh yeah, totally. If people knew that, everyone would come down on the emperor right away.

 

But the fact is, the only people who know that are Lord Scourge and a handful of Jedi. Quinn and the Sith Warrior... don't.

 

I'm going to have to hit up a second playthrough anyways of a SW and I'll probably try and frapps the conversation with the Voice this time, but I had a suspicion that you as the Wrath kind of find out what it is the Emperor is up too. I'm a little fuzzy as I was kind of powering through the first playthrough to hit the Transponder Vessel soooo....

 

*hugs her non-infected skinned version of Quinn* MINE!

 

Can you tell I wouldn't kill him either?

[imnotawitch]

Yay! Someone else! That makes three of us now...I think... o_O

 

Also yea I also agree about, the Sith mind control aspect. That could very well be true.

 

And really, Umm...Some of us are interested in future plot point because, like any goof Bioware game, we have choices, and we see the actions of characters in a different light, with different perspectives.

 

I think it's perfectly fine if they re-instate the option to kill companions, go for it if thats what you want. I just hope, like I've said before, as far as this plot is concerned, they have some future things in store if we keep him.

 

bright_ephemera you may see it as a bully on plot rails, but I see the complexity for a character having to come to terms with what they've tried to do to someone they were either in love with, or had a great deal of respect for.To me, that has a lot of potential for some very deep character development, if the writers have the time to do so.

 

That being said I do like the idea of possibly slave collaring him, or having that as a temporary punishment option. That a huge plot can of worms right there, and something that a writer could explore, perhaps to a greater degree than if one keeps Vettes collar on....and I did.

 

I man...I can't really be the only one, who has this perspective, on what happened...can I?

 

Make that four. I'm pretty sure Baras used some sort of delayed Sith Mind control on him.

[KorinHyvek]

Make that four. I'm pretty sure Baras used some sort of delayed Sith Mind control on him.

 

Given that DS use of the jedi mind trick can, in the hands of a sufficiently skilled practitioner, be used to wrench control of an entire capital ship's crew or erase the short term memory of someone while they are following your instructions, it's not totally unreasonable to think that an implanted suggestion is possible. The question is, would Baras be capable of such a thing. If he is, why didn't he make use of it more often.

 

 

So, to put it bluntly, the reason my mind control theory came about is I can't reconcile Quinn's character with the action.

[bright_ephemera]

Given that DS use of the jedi mind trick can, in the hands of a sufficiently skilled practitioner, be used to wrench control of an entire capital ship's crew or erase the short term memory of someone while they are following your instructions, it's not totally unreasonable to think that an implanted suggestion is possible. The question is, would Baras be capable of such a thing. If he is, why didn't he make use of it more often.

 

 

So, to put it bluntly, the reason my mind control theory came about is I can't reconcile Quinn's character with the action.

 

If Quinn

betrayed me because a wizard did it, I think I'll still be mad. Because that's narrative tripe. Baras had an incredible network of spies and informants, but hell, he couldn't mind trick something as simple as a name out of that Republic spy on Dromund Kaas. To spontaneously manifest that much power just long enough to turn a truly powerful scene into a cheap trick...oh, please don't. And if somebody says "woooo, he was setting it up for yeeears, you just never saw a demonstration before!" that doesn't make it less offensive: the appearance/revealing of the power still comes out of nowhere.

 

EDIT: Y'know, I take some of this back. I might be mad, I might feel it's kind of a cheap trick, but it might also give me a reason to look at him again.

 

 

 

Then again, I do struggle to maintain the belief that Quinn would choose this course of action. At best it reduces him to another little man who has been hiding behind the biggest baddest Sith angling for personal advancement all his life. And I guess that's possible, but I want to believe he's greater than that.

Edited May 7, 2012 by bright_ephemera

[imnotawitch]

I do think that Baras mentioned on Dromund Kaas that he would have been able to use the force to get a name out of that poor republic guy, but the Jedi used the force to strengthen his mind. So, this would support the theory that Darth Baras could possibly use some kind of force mind control on Quinn, especially since Quinn was working for Baras for years before he joined the SW.

[Kalterien]

I do think that Baras mentioned on Dromund Kaas that he would have been able to use the force to get a name out of that poor republic guy, but the Jedi used the force to strengthen his mind. So, this would support the theory that Darth Baras could possibly use some kind of force mind control on Quinn, especially since Quinn was working for Baras for years before he joined the SW.

 

How much direct contact would Quinn have had with Baras over the last decade, given that Quinn had been essentially exiled to Balmorra, possibly at the beginning of that decade. Unless of course Baras did his whole mind-warp thing on Quinn at the very beginning.

The problem, I find with that is depending on the mind-control or what Baras may or may not have done to Quinn, it could potentially have caused damage to the man's mind possibly making him less useful. Much as I hate to believe it, I'd rather think that Quinn's overwhelming sense of debt to Baras caused him to do what he did, considering the tone of the conversation a male warrior has with him. Either that, or Baras is holding something dark and terrible over Quinn and using it to his advantage, or .. he was always Baras' creature to begin with and that the romance he had wit the SW is just essentially a side benefit for him before he stabs her in the back.

 

Must admit, I hate that last line of thinking but really, its the one that makes the most sense in my mind seeing has how he could have been posted *anywhere* he wanted, why your ship? There had to be an ulterior motive behind it and what did he and Baras discuss while you weren't around? Soooo many questions.... I crave answers!

[bright_ephemera]

or .. he was always Baras' creature to begin with and that the romance he had wit the SW is just essentially a side benefit for him before he stabs her in the back.

 

This is what I have been assuming. Why do you think he held out for so long? He did the honorable thing for a while in staying separate. He even did what I think is the one decent thing he ever did just for the two of us...he tried to leave. And couldn't.

 

And to think that that reversal was the happiest moment of my SW campaign.

 

So he gave in. He let himself take his side action. But he was always ready to carry out his mission.

 

Must admit, I hate that last line of thinking but really, its the one that makes the most sense in my mind seeing has how he could have been posted *anywhere* he wanted, why your ship? There had to be an ulterior motive behind it and what did he and Baras discuss while you weren't around? Soooo many questions.... I crave answers!

 

I kind of assumed it was my ravishing good looks, obvious attraction, unstoppable effectiveness, and unswerving devotion to the Empire. I genuinely forgot that he would've made that same spiel to a sarcastic senselessly cruel brute.

[Kalterien]

This is what I have been assuming. Why do you think he held out for so long? He did the honorable thing for a while in staying separate. He even did what I think is the one decent thing he ever did just for the two of us...he tried to leave. And couldn't.

 

And to think that that reversal was the happiest moment of my SW campaign.

 

So he gave in. He let himself take his side action. But he was always ready to carry out his mission.

 

 

 

I kind of assumed it was my ravishing good looks, obvious attraction, unstoppable effectiveness, and unswerving devotion to the Empire. I genuinely forgot that he would've made that same spiel to a sarcastic senselessly cruel brute.

 

Yeah, I tried to forget that he'd be interested in the cruel brutish SW as well, considering I've played all my Imperials neutral/light because of their unswerving loyalty to the Empire. Helps that I have a teddy named Palpatine and another named Thrawn.

 

Seriously though that's how I ended up when I turned off the alignment indicator and just went with what I thought would best serve the Empire in turns of decision making. I'd be a bit snarky every once in a while, like that time on Quesh when that major insulted me, he *needed* to be taught a lesson. Surprisingly, it didn't matter to Quinn that I did that.

 

He was Baras' tool, and now that that bastard is dead, I sincerely hope Quinn is my tool or else that jerk is going to have to sleep on the couch from now on....

[DarthRamette]

I was rather pissed at Quinn for what he did and I think a couple convo's later with Pierce I had a one night stand with him to get back at Malavai. My SW still loves him and forgave him but she has not forgotten either.