Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

[Luxidenstore]

You should be able to kill Quinn, otherwise the whole choices matter thing just goes down the drain. This is one of the few times where a choice would radically change something gameplay wise, but that was not to be, because Johnny Two-Toes whined about it afterwards.

 

And isn't it a time like this where there would be reason to actually have the ship droid? You actually do have a healer then. I don't know if he's as good and I don't care because not all the DPS and Tank companions are perfectly balanced either.

 

 

I do hope the Legacy system gives us the ability to use our other characters companions for combat. Just for the fun of it and to have the choice. But that's highly unlikely.

[Kiralai]

Does anyone know if you still get the final cutscene with Quinn (the "After all we've been through together, good and bad, I'm thinking about the future. Let's make some babies, etc. etc." one) after the betrayal? I know that if you haven't married him before the betrayal he will still ask you to marry him later, betrayal be damned. But as far as the final cutscene I hadn't really heard anything (except one person saying they married him, and after the betrayal he told them he wanted to speak with them, but no actual conversation options appeared on the ship--she didn't clarify, so I'm not sure if the un-viewable conversation was the one about the future, or just a placeholder for some conversation Bioware hasn't added yet). Being a female SW, it makes more sense to me from an RP standpoint (and puts my poor hopeless romantic mind at ease) to have the "after all the good and the bad, I've been thinking about the future" conversation AFTER the betrayal. I just don't want to avoid starting it before the betrayal if it means I'll lose the option afterward.

 

To be clear, I'm talking about going from accepting the marriage, to the betrayal, and then to the final conversation about the future.

[TheCoug]

I was actually super worried when this fight happened that I would have to kill Quinn and be stuck with my ship droid as a healer.

[Taythan]

completed the entire quest line without using Quinn a single time he is not necessary and I wanted to kill him on Balmorra even before he became my companion. When the game made him my companion without my consent, I was so angry, I wanted to give him some of what I gave Vemrin on Korriban, lightsaber through the teeth and instead he becomes my companion! At first I took all of his gear and sold it, but that just put him in his underwear on my bridge so I travelled to Hutta and purchased the cheapest shirt and pants only just so he wasn't naked. At level 50 now finished quest line, I traveled to Ilum and was disappointed to find it looked basically like Hoth at night and that's about all the difference it looked like.

In short the Sith Maurader story is over for me, there is nothing left to bring me back to play the character. all my likeable companions have maxed affection and there is no further conversation but the rehashed blurbs from day one. No more class quest. no more nothing

[sparklecat]

Does anyone know if you still get the final cutscene with Quinn (the "After all we've been through together, good and bad, I'm thinking about the future. Let's make some babies, etc. etc." one) after the betrayal?

 

<snip>

 

To be clear, I'm talking about going from accepting the marriage, to the betrayal, and then to the final conversation about the future.

 

Yes, you do. I did the marriage as well after the betrayal, but got all the conversations that everyone else did that way.

[Agnostos]

Yeah this is a MAJOR fail in the warrior storyline. At the very least if we are going to be forced to keep the backstabber alive, we should be able to give him an implant or something that kills his freewill. We should be able to actually punish him. He spends months calculating behind our back, planning to kill us and our vengeance is choking him for five seconds? The dialogue choices are awful. The outcome is unacceptable. Terrible.

[Projawa]

I just completed the betrayal quest, not surprised it happened since BW dropped hints all over the place- Quinn owes his career to Baras who knows Quinn is in the perfect position to get at the warrior if necessary, on Voss if you go with the "Darth Baras is a dead man" type responses in certain plot dialogues you get -1 rep with Quinn, not to mention the Emperor's Voice warns you it's gonna happen.

 

Wish there was an option to do more than simply throw him against a wall and choke him.

[Karbardin]

Yeah this is a MAJOR fail in the warrior storyline. At the very least if we are going to be forced to keep the backstabber alive, we should be able to give him an implant or something that kills his freewill. We should be able to actually punish him. He spends months calculating behind our back, planning to kill us and our vengeance is choking him for five seconds? The dialogue choices are awful. The outcome is unacceptable. Terrible.

 

Well said, absolutely unacceptable!

[Kiralai]

I completely agree that to kill someone who betrayed you should absolutely be an option. It's a shame that people can't be responsible enough with their own decisions to allow that degree of realism, perhaps with an "Are you sure?" option (in case of mis-clicks).

 

Though I'm also of the mind that "traitorous douchebag" is a bit of a mischaracterization, even given the circumstances. (Still a valid opinion though, obviously.) To me it was the "best" course of action for someone who values duty the way he does. He simply owes Baras a lot more than he owes the SW (and has owed him his allegiance for far longer), despite the fact that he (Quinn) considers what he has to do regrettable, and that he's only doing it because duty (and Baras) commands it (both concepts openly expressed in the conversation--some quoted below). To be honest, I think I'd have lost more respect for him if he had betrayed Baras, given the way he was characterized as an absolutely duty-bound individual.

 

It's pretty hard to miss the fact that he's only acting out of duty, and that he'd really rather not betray the SW if it were possible without breaking his code of duty/honor. (Under spoilers just because I know that to some people there is a difference between knowing the scenario and knowing some of the actual script options.)

 

 

"I have enjoyed your company and companionship, my lord; that's what makes this so hard." (Female only.)

 

"It's not me or you, it's Darth Baras. I owe him more than you could imagine." (Female only.)

 

"It pains me, but this entire scenario is a ruse." (Gender-neutral.)

 

"You've helped me immensely. I act today with a heavy heart. But without Baras, I'd have no career." (Gender-neutral.)

 

"I didn't want to choose between the two of you, but he's forced my hand and I had to side with him." (Gender-neutral.)

 

 

I'm certainly biased toward keeping the guy around, but if he was willing to face a powerful Sith to repay Baras for saving his career, I can't imagine the lengths he'd go to repay the SW for sparing his life. He's not a traitor by nature. It was an unavoidable side-effect of him being absolutely true to his very objective sense of duty. In some ways (as counter-intuitive as it may sound), the whole scenario portrays him as more trustworthy (at least assuming you are the person he owes the most to--and since the SW does spare his life, I'm pretty sure he/she qualifies at that point). If Quinn were willing to betray Baras instead of the SW (despite owing Baras far more loyalty) in order to serve his own interests/emotions, that would make him far more questionable for repeat offenses. In my eyes at least.

 

All that being said, I do hope they revisit the issue in later cutscenes, both for the sake of people who want to expand upon a storyline of redemption and for the sake of those who want (and deserve, really) the option to be far more ruthless in their punishment.

[Gwanwyn]

My understanding is..they DID have the option to kill companions in BETA but they removed it since....guess what.... So many people regretting killing them and complained that you couldn't get them back....

 

Hardly a 'fail'

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't I suppose ..........

Edited February 17, 2012 by Gwanwyn

[gibmachine]

My understanding is..they DID have the option to kill companions in BETA but they removed it since....guess what.... So many people regretting killing them and complained that you couldn't get them back....

 

Hardly a 'fail'

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't I suppose ..........

But removing the option completely and not giving us ANY choice whatsoever in the matter isn't a good thing either. Sometimes it's not worth to cut corners, especially with that single moment being really huge and at the same time contradicting what you've been doing for past 48 or so levels (granted you went DS but still).

 

I still say that if replacing Quinn won't happen via story then it should at least be possible via role kits which would allow to spec other companion into healer.

Edited February 17, 2012 by gibmachine

[DarthRamette]

But removing the option completely and not giving us ANY choice whatsoever in the matter isn't a good thing either. Sometimes it's not worth to cut corners, especially with that single moment being really huge and at the same time contradicting what you've been doing for past 48 or so levels (granted you went DS but still).

 

I still say that if replacing Quinn won't happen via story then it should at least be possible via role kits which would allow to spec other companion into healer.

 

If you gear up that annoying as all hell robot in your ship, he is a healer as well.

[Darth_Casus]

The game's decided your character is more intelligent than you, pretty much.

 

By this I mean, not all Sith are 'RABBLE RABBLE BLOOD AND GUTS RABBLE RABBLE'.

 

Some are smart enough to recognize valuable resources and not waste them.

 

I totally agree with this.

[lokdron]

I totally agree with this.

 

This is a post of a friend of mine this is his opinion on this issue and I agree with him. Those who say that those who want to kill him are dumb don't really know much about the sith teachings.

 

Jorander Post:

 

That is materialistic thinking though, which doesn't mesh with Sith philosophy. Someone who is a true disciple of the dark side, who really follows the spirit of Sith teachings, would absolutely butcher Quinn. Sparing him would be an act of mercy, and you do not show mercy on enemies, and Quinn made himself your enemy when he betrayed you. You might see it as a waste of resources, but are you really so weak that you might need Quinn for something at some point? If you are worried about what you are losing by killing Quinn, maybe you should look at becoming strong enough so you don't need to rely on him, or anyone else for that matter. That is how Sith operate.

[AzraelCales]

This is a post of a friend of mine this is his opinion on this issue and I agree with him. Those who say that those who want to kill him are dumb don't really know much about the sith teachings.

 

Jorander Post:

 

That is materialistic thinking though, which doesn't mesh with Sith philosophy. Someone who is a true disciple of the dark side, who really follows the spirit of Sith teachings, would absolutely butcher Quinn. Sparing him would be an act of mercy, and you do not show mercy on enemies, and Quinn made himself your enemy when he betrayed you. You might see it as a waste of resources, but are you really so weak that you might need Quinn for something at some point? If you are worried about what you are losing by killing Quinn, maybe you should look at becoming strong enough so you don't need to rely on him, or anyone else for that matter. That is how Sith operate.

 

Exactly. I mean c'mon we killed many other people during the story for a whole lot less, sometimes just to get info from someone else or because they looked at us funny. We get betrayed by one of our closest allies and crew members and just brush it off?!? I sincerely hope they come out with a replacement for Quinn and let us do things to him that would make the Dark Council have nightmares.

[LaoZhetheMonk]

All this debate is nice and all, but thats your reasons for doing either/or.

 

Personally, I'd like the option to kill him since, well, I may actually want to kill him.

 

The problem seems to me that people didn't know they could, say, just reset the quest or that Bioware would -really- kill a cast member. A perfectly viable solution would have been to have a confirmation dialogue, just to make it absolutely clear that the KILL HIM option on certain companions does, actually, kill them. Why that wasn't obvious the first go around, I don't know.

 

I wanted to let Ashara die because she outlived her usefulness and NOT bring along Skadge because he was as opposed to my BHs personal honor code as could possibly be. I'd have been perfectly happy to be "gimped" by the loss since I found one character redundant and the other made me want to murder him every time I was aware he existed.

[GreyReaver]

Totally disappointed. When Quinn betrayes you, there must be choice to kill him permanently. How can a sith lord keep traitor aboard? Its nonsence. If Bioware thinks that he is fully punished just by little non-fatal choking and some scolding for betraying a SITH who killed ppl just for a pair wrong words, then Baras' betrayal can be handled the same way, lol. Just send to Baras an angry holo message, and its done. Totally ruins roleplay and now this 'storyline' for me is just a way to farm levels till max, i dont believe in it anymore.

 

I totally agree with you; SWTOR needs to change this ASAP and provide the option of kiling MQ.

 

Malavi Quinn MUST die for his betrayal and incompetence! Why are we not given the opportunity/option to kill him for his; 1. Sworn allegiance to my enemy, "my true master is Darth Baras." NOTE: he didn’t say the empire as an organization he said an individual. 2. Failure to kill me; I mean really (2) non-elite droids and him? He deserves death for that failure alone. I would have had respected his decision as a SITH had be defeated me. 3. Honestly, how would a dark-side SITH tolerate such betrayal and incompetence? Now, Darth Vowrawn is on my ship along with Darth Baras' pet traitor, Malavi Quinn. I do not want to have to keep looking over my shoulder.

 

I WANT MALAVI QUINN OFF MY SHIP! NOW! As a player and particularly a SITH, I should not be FORCED to keep an incompetent traitor on my ship and in my employ. I will NEVER use him again (I only used him to slice and treasure hunt) as I DO NOT TRUST HIM and IMO he undermines my authority and committment to strength and competence as a SITH by me not killing him. I posess no soft-spot for incompetence or traitors, especially incompetent traitors.

 

Secondly, I had a minor issue with retaining the ship Darth Baras' gave me after his betrayal. I mean really, it could have been laced with tracking and listening devices, self-destructing bombs, etc… and there was NO option or explanation delving into this important vein. SWTOR should provide the opportunity to "sweep" the ship or have the Emperor’s hand provides us with a new ship.

Edited February 18, 2012 by GreyReaver

[GreyReaver]

So I just had a convo with Jaesa when she tells me about how she killed a false Sith. One of the options available to pick was "relish this feeling as there are few bigger pleasures than destroying traitors".

 

Yup, inability to kill Quinn makes perfect sense.

 

I sending out a BIG BUMP on this comment!

[Mosene]

I would have killed him in a heartbeat given the option if he wasn't the only thing keeping me alive while questing.Leveling with any other companion as marauder is just lol.

[GreyReaver]

Then, no offense, you'd be a horrible Sith.

 

I finally lost it, from your inane comments re: MQ defense. No Daemon, YOU as a player are entitled to PLAY the game however you want BUT, that does not make YOU the MODEL SITH. In fact, I honestly believe you are a true blue JEDI wearing your heart on your sleeve dressing up and pretending to be a SITH and rationalizing your BF Quinns traitorous behavior. I'm sure that you are sub to Quinn's dom the way you've drooled over him the last 5 pages.

 

His skills mean nothing to you as a leader particularly a SITH leader at the point in which he makes the decision to betray you for his "TRUE" master as he puts it. (an individual not the organization of the Empire) Oh, and he despite all of his intelligence, skills and resources (you fawn all over) he fails to kill you. Not only is he a traitor, he is incompetent. And don't give me your Freudian Psycho babble about how he self sabotaged himself because you (the SW) are where is true loyalties lie. Because that make him a double traitor by betraying you then Baras. Also, if that is the case why didn't he confess his treason then give you a plan that would allow you to trap Darth Baras? Now that is a storyline that would put me on the road to forgiving MQ; because of his usefulness to me and actions speak louder than words.

 

Personally, I'm level 47, just had the MQ betrayal encounter and I would have personally enjoyed flaying his body and eating his liver in front of the crew while a horrified MQ looks on. No, I wouldn't kill him immediately, I'd slowly take bits off him over a lengthy period of time, keeping him alive, in pain and as a poster boy of what happens to incompetent traitors. Think, the Indian head Al Swerengen from Deadwood conversed with in his office. As I intently look over the Galaxy map, I ask Quinn's torso, which resides within a bacta tank, sans arms and legs, "Hey Quinn, I could use your input." I cackle manically, savoring the moment, "Oh, that's right, I forgot, you can't answer me, because I cut your tongue out and fed it to Broonmark." That my friend, is the SITH way to treat a traitor. Peace is a LIE. Hey D, if you can't stomach being a SITH why don't you answer your true calling as a pathetic Republic Dandy.

Edited February 19, 2012 by GreyReaver

[sparklecat]

The obvious reason as to why he suddenly turned into an incompetent idiot when he tried to kill you, in spite of his extensive time as (for most warriors) your primary backup, which would require a deep understanding of your strengths and weaknesses, is that he didn't actually want to succeed.

 

 

There are about a billion ways he could've successfully killed you that you would have never seen coming, and he takes the one that barely scratches you, thinking it'll actually work? The guy who's shown himself to be awesome at outmaneuvering your enemies multiple times across the class storyline? No, I don't buy it.

[GreyReaver]

The obvious reason as to why he suddenly turned into an incompetent idiot when he tried to kill you, in spite of his extensive time as (for most warriors) your primary backup, which would require a deep understanding of your strengths and weaknesses, is that he didn't actually want to succeed.

 

Quinn himself states, "Darth Baras is my true master." Notice he's being loyal to a person not the organization, the Empire. At that point, you are the Emperor's Wrath. Quin is betraying the Emperor himself by betraying you and if MQ is so smart he would know that he was betraying the Emperor by betraying you.

 

And if he didn't want to kill you why go through with the attack? Because by doing that he certainly fails in your eyes AND Darth Baras' eyes. How forgiving do you suppose Darth Baras is going to be when he finds out Quinn failed him then betrays him? Strategically, it makes NO sense to have TWO powerful SITH mad at you, one Darth Baras the other me, the Emperor's Wrath. Because, by trying to join you (the SW) after his failure, he then betrays Darth Baras. Betrayal all around.

 

Now, if he confessed his treason by maintaining contact with Darth Baras and what he wanted him to do to you AND then gave you a plan for betraying Darth Baras then we have something to talk about until then though, Quinn is an incompetent double traitor, who would say ANYTHING to save his skin.

 

BW screwed the pooch on this one and THEY need to fix it. Unfortunately, they took the band-aid approach by removing the kill MQ option and not revising the storyline. IMO, they should put the kill option back in and and give us another healer down the road on our next planet. They don't have to do any more work MQ is already done, use him, say he's MQ's experimental clone; done and done.

Edited February 19, 2012 by GreyReaver

[Darth_Vicente]

All this debate is nice and all, but thats your reasons for doing either/or.

 

Personally, I'd like the option to kill him since, well, I may actually want to kill him.

 

The problem seems to me that people didn't know they could, say, just reset the quest or that Bioware would -really- kill a cast member. A perfectly viable solution would have been to have a confirmation dialogue, just to make it absolutely clear that the KILL HIM option on certain companions does, actually, kill them. Why that wasn't obvious the first go around, I don't know.

I wanted to let Ashara die because she outlived her usefulness and NOT bring along Skadge because he was as opposed to my BHs personal honor code as could possibly be. I'd have been perfectly happy to be "gimped" by the loss since I found one character redundant and the other made me want to murder him every time I was aware he existed.

 

That's the kicker: There WAS a confirmation dialogue. And people still *****ed until it went away. In fact, you can still see at least one scenario where you can still see the option:

 

 

On Taris, Inquisitors have the option of choosing "Let the ghost kill Ashara". And if you do, she'll cry for help, and that's where had the option to let her die. Instead, your only choice is to save her, and to save her but tell her she's your ***** from here on.

 

[Mechavomit]

The problem is that not only does thos part of the story is horribly rushed it also doesn't make any sense. It's pointless. I know I shouldn't be treating a RPG like a novel of some sort, but still.. What did that bit tell us? Out character can't kill him, the whole thing doesn't leave any marks behind on our character, on the story, he forgives Quinn almost instanly. It literaly goes "I suck at killing Sith =(" "kk" "u gonna let me live?" "yeah whatev" "oh cool bro". And that's it. Even Baras ignores this completely. Neither him, not Quinn say anything about this later in the story. Why? THIS IS BREAKING MY IMMERSION, BIOWARE! I want actual development.

I wouldn't kill him. I liked him. That's why I kept bumping the affection up. But I want that affection to actually affect something! I understand that it would require a lot more work from BW, but why include that bit in the story if it's not going to make any sense? This whole betreyal episode could work beautifuly, if more time was dedicated to it. Right now it feels rushed, pointless and weak. It needs new dialogues. More dialogues. And an option to kill.

[Lightmaguz]

The game's decided your character is more intelligent than you, pretty much.

 

By this I mean, not all Sith are 'RABBLE RABBLE BLOOD AND GUTS RABBLE RABBLE'.

 

Some are smart enough to recognize valuable resources and not waste them.

 

I recognized valuable resources the whole game, but anyone who betrayed me died, also this stupid ******** of giving people a second chance is not at all part of Sith philosophy. My character is dark I as result of many light AND dark side choices but not killing Malavai is asking to be killed later on, if this wasn't a *********** Crpg it would likely happen. Bioware dropped the ball and not being able to kill him was depressive to say the least, the lowest point of the game til now by far.