Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

[grania]

"I can suffer your treachery, lieutenant, but not your incompetence!"

[throws Quinn into a wall]

"Treachery requires no mistakes."

 

Heh. After he's defeated it's not so much that he's sorry for turning on you - he's only sorry that he failed at it. And then the ls warrior says "Eh don't be so hard on yourself, I'm really good. Better luck next time."

[ekimmak]

Personally, I would like to see the Ship droid be able to assume any role your companion can take (maybe tie it in with the legacy droid for your ship - buy what you need), and put back in the options to kill your companion. Killing him there would have been far better in terms of story.

 

Yes. They could.

 

But then people would complain that they can't get those final legacy bonuses, even if it is just +10 presence.

 

I guess then they'd have to make the ship droid fill in for that if you give them enough gifts that they'd have unlocked it on the real companion.

 

But then they'd have to make it so that you can only kill one companion in each class, and half the people would complain that they can't kill the one they really hate, and the other half would complain that they don't have enough companions to run max missions while with a companion-

 

AAAAAARGH!

 

It's all too stressful, and I'm not even a developer.

[bright_ephemera]

Heh. After he's defeated it's not so much that he's sorry for turning on you - he's only sorry that he failed at it. And then the ls warrior says "Eh don't be so hard on yourself, I'm really good. Better luck next time."

 

No kidding. "Aww, good try, big guy! Tell you what, you can try again next week. I'll forget all about this so I can be surprised again."

 

Hey, Quinn could be the Cato to your Inspector Clouseau! He tries to kill you every few hours, you hilariously tumble him out the window, you proceed to go bumbling all over the place as the biggest joke in the galaxy, while Chief Inspector Baras rages and weeps at your idiocy! This is exactly what I wanted to do when I started down the big bad Sith Warrior line.

Edited October 24, 2012 by bright_ephemera

[grania]

Hey, Quinn could be the Cato to your Inspector Clouseau! He tries to kill you every few hours, you hilariously tumble him out the window, you proceed to go bumbling all over the place as the biggest joke in the galaxy, while Chief Inspector Baras rages and weeps at your idiocy! This is exactly what I wanted to do when I started down the big bad Sith Warrior line.

 

ROFL I love this analogy. I've got nothing to add.

[bright_ephemera]

Hey, Quinn could be the Cato to your Inspector Clouseau!

ROFL I love this analogy. I've got nothing to add.

 

The more I think about this as a farce, the less upset I am about the whole thing It fits scary well! Now I just want to see Baras getting dragged off in a straitjacket...

Edited May 11, 2012 by bright_ephemera
adding context quote

[OmegaMCG]

I think the thing that bugs me about the great betrayal is the sheer stupidity that it would have to illustrate in the Quinn character. He's been around with you from planet to planet, seeing how Baras "rewards" his most loyal servants with betrayal (including you)...and if Quin himself is so turned off by betrayal as his character outline illustrates, then this should utterly put him off Baras.....but instead when given the choice of doing the bidding of a Sith master who routinely kills his most loyal servants (Baras) vs siding with the Sith master who pretty much treats him decently and if you happen to be a female player who opts to romance and even possibly marry him, then he's been "getting some" from you too.... and he chooses to go with the treacherous fat man. Who in their right mind would pick that? That is just dumb beyond belief for a character that is supposed to be loyal, logical, intelligent, and hates betrayal. I agree that this is a writing fail. I'd like to believe they were just under the gun to get the game out the door on time and they just didn't have time to give this the treatment that it should have gotten. But the whole thing did come across as a weak and lame "twist" that was put in for the sake of having a "twist".

[Ismaire]

Wow, if I had known about from the beta (I didn't get very far on that one or two weekends that I had beta tested) I'd probably be griping more about this whole incident myself, though I must admit, I probably wouldn't have picked to do either of those options myself but it would have been NICE to have that choice.

I just re-read the game script and realized I made a mistake... You could have Pierce or DS Jaesa KILL Quinn, then Pierce would recieve Quinn's rank by default. *facepalm*

 

Still, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to change the dialogue to have either Pierce or Jaesa torture Quinn, then you would have the choice of demoting him. I still think that would be a fitting punishment for Quinn, for those who think he deserves it. (Also inserting a line that Quinn could be punished again even though you spare him, wouldn't hurt either.)

[Kalterien]

I just re-read the game script and realized I made a mistake... You could have Pierce or DS Jaesa KILL Quinn, then Pierce would recieve Quinn's rank by default. *facepalm*

 

Still, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to change the dialogue to have either Pierce or Jaesa torture Quinn, then you would have the choice of demoting him. I still think that would be a fitting punishment for Quinn, for those who think he deserves it. (Also inserting a line that Quinn could be punished again even though you spare him, wouldn't hurt either.)

 

Mind you, I probably wouldn't have taken those options mostly because I ended up with a LS Jaesa and I despise Pierce (go figure) but it would have been nice to have had those options. I'll happily admit that I only started a SW for Quinn and knew about the "incident" beforehand so it wasn't a surprise.

 

@ OmegaMCG

 

I suspect that part of the reason Quinn chooses to side with Baras is the fact that he owes Baras pretty much his entire career after Druckenwell. He even states that particular fact during the cutscene, Baras mentions that Quinn "owes him his career" at the onset of the Balmorra quest chain. Yes, Quinn has seen what Baras does to even loyal servants or tools, as that is likely what Sith view non-Sith, but in the end does it really matter to him? Probably not, given that Quinn as served Baras for years and owes him a great deal. Its been mentioned before either in this thread or one of the other ones that the "side action" Quinn gets from a female SW is low on the list of his priorities of serving the Empire and doing Baras' bidding.

 

Now, I suppose if Baras was doing something that was harmful to the Empire it's possible that Quinn might turn on him but that's just speculation.

[JediElf]

I suspect that part of the reason Quinn chooses to side with Baras is the fact that he owes Baras pretty much his entire career after Druckenwell. He even states that particular fact during the cutscene, Baras mentions that Quinn "owes him his career" at the onset of the Balmorra quest chain. Yes, Quinn has seen what Baras does to even loyal servants or tools, as that is likely what Sith view non-Sith, but in the end does it really matter to him? Probably not, given that Quinn as served Baras for years and owes him a great deal. Its been mentioned before either in this thread or one of the other ones that the "side action" Quinn gets from a female SW is low on the list of his priorities of serving the Empire and doing Baras' bidding.

 

He's loyal to the Empire, loyal to the Sith, but is he loyal to his desires and needs?

 

...and now that he's done, what he's done, how will it affect him in the future....

 

It's almost beautiful...in a way.

[Kalterien]

@JediElf

 

I'm just waiting to watch Quinn crack under trying to reconcile his actions with his underlying character or reasons, if he even can. Is he loyal to his own needs and desires, that's a very good question considering the dialogue in one of the romance cutscenes, about how he's not going to "deny" or that he's not feeling conflicted.

 

It's probably less interesting if you were playing male SW I suppose but equally annoying.

 

That being said, if for my SW if *anyone* tries to touch her captain, she'll flay them alive.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Kalterien

[Katahn]

I got to thinking about something as I'm playing through the SW story again. Baras never throws anything away while it is useful, and when it isn't useful it is destroyed not "set free". Quinn throughout all of Balmorra was the absolute epitome of efficiency and effectiveness and so I can't help but think that we collectively should have seen his "betrayal" coming from a long way off. Thinking about the fact he was indebted to an extremely machiavellian Darth that is well known for having spies everywhere... what in the world ever possessed us to think Quinn wasn't intentionally a plant?

 

Of course, by the same logic Vette could be too I suppose.

[bright_ephemera]

I got to thinking about something as I'm playing through the SW story again. Baras never throws anything away while it is useful, and when it isn't useful it is destroyed not "set free". Quinn throughout all of Balmorra was the absolute epitome of efficiency and effectiveness and so I can't help but think that we collectively should have seen his "betrayal" coming from a long way off. Thinking about the fact he was indebted to an extremely machiavellian Darth that is well known for having spies everywhere... what in the world ever possessed us to think Quinn wasn't intentionally a plant?

 

Plenty of people did see it coming. As for me...at the end of Balmorra, Baras and Quinn do this little song-and-dance where Baras says "Yes, your debt is paid in full, I shall reward you and allow your career to progress!" and Quinn says "Ah-ha, I am thoroughly free and can do what I want and that's awesome!" and...I swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. Whoops.

 

Now if only I could destroy the agents that are no longer useful...

[Kalterien]

I suppose the real question now is that with Baras dead is Quinn actually loyal to you and you alone or is there some sort of nefarious shadowy master we still don't know about?

 

He says he is but now I just don't believe him...

[DarthRamette]

I suppose the real question now is that with Baras dead is Quinn actually loyal to you and you alone or is there some sort of nefarious shadowy master we still don't know about?

 

He says he is but now I just don't believe him...

 

I didn't kill fat man, I imprisoned him in my story.

[Kalterien]

I had to kill him couldn't let that bastard loose to come back and threaten me later.

 

Then again, I also told the Dark Council not to expect the status quo, go figure.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Kalterien

[bright_ephemera]

I didn't kill fat man, I imprisoned him in my story.

 

I'm trying to think of a courteous way to ask What the hell is wrong with you? (This must be how Quinn felt every time I spared a Jedi's life...)

 

Killing Darth Refrigerator gave me the tastiest 200 DS points I ever ate.

 

No, wait. An earlier scene gave me the tastiest 100. Baras just gave me the next most delicious serving of Dark Side points ever.

Edited May 14, 2012 by bright_ephemera
spoiler tags

[Kalterien]

Hey! Killing fatty also gave me positive Quinn rep.. soooo.....

 

It was win-win for me.

[bright_ephemera]

Killing Darth Refrigerator gave me the tastiest 200 DS points I ever ate.

 

No, wait. An earlier scene gave me the tastiest 100. Baras just gave me the next most delicious serving of Dark Side points ever.

 

Changed my mind again. Darth Cartman definitely gave the tastiest DS points. The other hundred most memorable points in my career actually tasted bitter. Like I wasn't killing anybody with them.

[Kalterien]

Ephemera,

 

Are you talking about the time when you

 

 

Force choke the **** out of Quinn? Cause those were some very bitter points indeed.

 

[bright_ephemera]

Ephemera,

 

Are you talking about the time when you

 

 

Force choke the **** out of Quinn? Cause those were some very bitter points indeed.

 

Absolutely.

 

I recently went back and reviewed my recording of the scene. That decision was made in under five seconds, and mind you, I was in love with the man. Sod this "light side" style I was playing, I was out for blood.

[Kalterien]

Ephemera,

 

You sound like I did, the time it took for the mouse to move over was the time it took for a decision but granted I was more neutral than light through out the game. Course, I like to headcanon that Quinn is relegated to the couch for now.

 

I'm still debating if I want to slap that infected skin on him on the new sw I'll be rolling later on. My original one was on a server I hardly play on these days. Go figure.

[Soteirian]

Plenty of people did see it coming. As for me...at the end of Balmorra, Baras and Quinn do this little song-and-dance where Baras says "Yes, your debt is paid in full, I shall reward you and allow your career to progress!" and Quinn says "Ah-ha, I am thoroughly free and can do what I want and that's awesome!"

 

I don't think Baras said Quinn's debt was "paid in full". I believe he said Quinn had "sufficiently repaid" the debt owed to him. I interpret that as "you still owe me, but you've done enough for me to reward you from time to time, as opposed to just keep having you do things for free".

 

I also viewed Baras promoting Quinn and allowing him to be reassigned as a way to further the debt Quinn owed to him. After that 'gift' Quinn is back to owing Baras "more than you can imagine".

 

As for why Quinn chose to go with the Warrior. My thinking is: why not? Baras may have cleared the way for Quinn to be reassigned wherever he chooses, but where could he go safely? There is a powerful Moff that's dedicated to keep him down. No matter where he goes he's vulnerable to attacks by this Moff (remember he wanted the SW to send Quinn to him for execution). In a way, even though stuck in Balmorra was frustrating it also kept him safe, as the Moff was content with that outcome and not fixated on gunning after Quinn. As soon as the Moff realized that Quinn was free he would go after him again. Quinn might be allowed to leave Balmorra, but his choices were extremely limited.

 

The only way for Quinn to survive and have any hope of advancement was if his new boss both appreciated him and was also powerful enough to protect him, There were only 2 choices: go work behind a desk in Dromund Kaas and stay close to Baras, or follow the Sith Warrior and prove himself in the battle field. The choice seemed obvious.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Soteirian

[DarthRamette]

I'm trying to think of a courteous way to ask What the hell is wrong with you? (This must be how Quinn felt every time I spared a Jedi's life...)

 

Killing Darth Refrigerator gave me the tastiest 200 DS points I ever ate.

 

No, wait. An earlier scene gave me the tastiest 100. Baras just gave me the next most delicious serving of Dark Side points ever.

 

I played as a LS Sith thus the reason for not killing him. If I roll another Warrior in the future I will kill him but that is why I didnt do it.

[Kalterien]

I played as a LS Sith thus the reason for not killing him. If I roll another Warrior in the future I will kill him but that is why I didnt do it.

 

I've mentioned this before somewhere but I had the alignment indicator turned off for my playthrough of the SW, after deciding what her basic character was going to be, ended up very neutral and mostly forgiving. The one exception being her boyfriend-snugglebunny Quinn trying to kill her, she went into a rage. Granted if it would have actually killed him, I doubt I would have taken the force choke option.

 

@Soltierian

 

I had actually forgotten the exact conversation dialogue between Quinn and Baras just before the final completion of Balmorra, specifically the bit about the debt. Considering that particular bit of information, I think you're right in that regardless of how much Quinn "pays" Baras, he will continue to be indebted to him anyways. Furthermore, the bit about Moff Broysce is enlightening as well, since I had failed to consider the implications of Baras' other statement regarding the "powerful Imperials" that were dedicated to keeping Quinn down.

 

Regardless though, if Quinn had felt any loyalty towards the SW, he's still stuck in a rock and a hard place essentially and in his own way trying to make the best out of a really bad situation. I think someone else mentioned that even though Quinn is serving the Wrath, Baras is a long established Sith Lord and thus his history and power base are more concrete whereas the Wrath is a relative newcomer. It would playing the odds trying to decide between the veteran and the newbie.

[JediElf]

Regardless though, if Quinn had felt any loyalty towards the SW, he's still stuck in a rock and a hard place essentially and in his own way trying to make the best out of a really bad situation. I think someone else mentioned that even though Quinn is serving the Wrath, Baras is a long established Sith Lord and thus his history and power base are more concrete whereas the Wrath is a relative newcomer. It would playing the odds trying to decide between the veteran and the newbie.

 

Exactly. I think Quinn was stuck with one of the hardest and most painful decisions of his life. Something like that can affect people deeply, even a dutiful man like him, and between the lines, he mostly likely became a bit undone at the seams, he most likely felt he was dead either way...and sometimes, even when deeply in love, we can make the wrong decisions, especially under that kind of emotional pressure.

 

My mind keeps pondering how this will affect him int he future, and how he's going to deal with his on his own, and with the crew of the fury.

 

Personally I kinda hope he comes apart a little, a very unhinged Quinn might be just as much fun, if not more fun, than Dark Side Jessa.

 

Edited May 15, 2012 by JediElf