Sith warrior story fail, Malavai Quinn

[sparklecat]

Quinn himself states, "Darth Baras is my true master." Notice he's being loyal to a person not the organization, the Empire. At that point, you are the Emperor's Wrath. Quin is betraying the Emperor himself by betraying you and if MQ is so smart he would know that he was betraying the Emperor by betraying you.

 

And if he didn't want to kill you why go through with the attack? Because by doing that he certainly fails in your eyes AND Darth Baras' eyes. How forgiving do you suppose Darth Baras is going to be when he finds out Quinn failed him then betrays him? Strategically, it makes NO sense to have TWO powerful SITH mad at you, one Darth Baras the other me, the Emperor's Wrath. Because, by trying to join you (the SW) after his failure, he then betrays Darth Baras. Betrayal all around.

 

Now, if he confessed his treason by maintaining contact with Darth Baras and what he wanted him to do to you AND then gave you a plan for betraying Darth Baras then we have something to talk about until then though, Quinn is an incompetent double traitor, who would say ANYTHING to save his skin.

 

BW screwed the pooch on this one and THEY need to fix it. Unfortunately, they took the band-aid approach by removing the kill MQ option and not revising the storyline. IMO, they should put the kill option back in and and give us another healer down the road on our next planet. They don't have to do any more work MQ is already done, use him, say he's MQ's experimental clone; done and done.

 

I agree that it could've been handled much better. And I'm still trying to figure out how sincere I think he was myself, but the drastic change in his capabilities... I don't see any way it could be anything other than intentional, given that the game's had no problem figuring out what would be a potentially difficult fight for us that actually requires thinking and paying attention plenty of other times. This is what I really can't get past.

 

I see people saying that Quinn went through with the betrayal due to his loyalty to Baras, but yes, the rapid about-face after you beat him makes that a bit questionable. Nobody who was really duty-oriented would consider a debt fulfilled if you weren't actually trying. I think Quinn went in expecting to die, and was trying to make you mad enough to do it happily (especially in the case where you romanced him), but then apologizing afterwards? Something that I could've seen working was... oh, Baras is holding something over Quinn, some secret, some family members he's captured, and Quinn needs to make at least a token effort that Baras will find out about so he doesn't take revenge after you win and kill Quinn. That, I could've bought.

 

I think it's clear afterwards that he is loyal to you now; he has ample opportunity to help get Vowrawn killed, or turn against you again in the final fight, and doesn't. With the bulk of the Council looking to be on Baras' side initially, I think he would have if it was just a case of jumping ship whenever it was convenient.

 

 

I think it's all just pretty inconsistent with what we've seen of his character beforehand, and will always need to be a matter of individual interpretation, which pieces of evidence we weigh more highly than others in deciding what was going on in his head. But hopefully Bioware will just plain tidy up the story somewhat; they're free to take my earlier idea if they want!

Edited February 19, 2012 by sparklecat

[sparklecat]

But I want that affection to actually affect something! I understand that it would require a lot more work from BW, but why include that bit in the story if it's not going to make any sense? This whole betreyal episode could work beautifuly, if more time was dedicated to it. Right now it feels rushed, pointless and weak. It needs new dialogues. More dialogues. And an option to kill.

 

Yes, this. Let us roleplay our characters. This was a great idea, there are a lot of ambiguities about what's going on, but the pacing practically gave me whiplash. Even if you'd just had us knock Quinn out after the fight, then drag him back to the ship and lock him in for a day or so before going to talk to him and then everything progressing like it does now, I could've bought it. And not getting to say anything about it when we confront Baras, not even getting to rub it in his face that his plan failed and his little traitor is now my pet was very disappointing

[sugarnails]

Yes, this. Let us roleplay our characters.

 

Agreed. The entire dialogue surrounding that event made me feel like I was just along for the ride rather than in control of anything.

 

I'm not someone who would have taken the option to kill him as I quite like him (even after the betrayal), but I do think they should have left it in game for those that want to.

 

As for my take on Quinn's motives, I'm sure he's quite aware by that point in the story that Baras has a habit of killing his underlings once they've served their purpose. Quinn's only hope for long-term survival is to fail his attempt at killing the sith warrior and hope that the warrior is fond enough of him to spare him.

 

In a twisted way, the betrayal was also a story success, since everyone and their cousin is talking about it, even if only to say they disagree with how it played out.

[GreyReaver]

I understand that traitors are not resources at all, they are dangerous enemies and permanent threat while alive. In this case forgiveness is a weakness, those who are weak have no rights to call themselves a sith. This conception ideally fits in sith roleplay.

 

Agreed.

 

I found this interesting with regards to and in support of the "betrayal" of Malavi Quinn:

 

On Corellia at the end of the fight for the planet:

 

SW Option: "Dorbin, people think you betrayed us. Letting you live would be a sign of weakness."

[MasterPetricco]

It's quite clear from the scene that killing Quinn was once an option, quickly removed when Bioware noticed their story was effecting gameplay. However if that's the case the entire fart of a quest the lasted a whole 5 minutes most of it talking, should have been changed or removed. Instead we are left with a rushed ending that felt out of place leaving me going.

 

"Eh? I've killed people in cutscenes that took less of a beating then Quinn, then we shake hands and act like it never happened?"

 

Come on Bioware pull your thumb out. If your going to leave the quest in the game, fix it some other way, let us kill Quinn, then offer us a new companion with the same skill set. Bioware said they weren't sure how many companions we would get, that probably means they already have full companion stories writen out, they just haven't added them in yet. It just seems like it was a quick beta fix that was going to be redone later and they never got around to ironing out the details of the ending.

[PanikSpreder]

I assume then that there is no other imperial officer with medical training and a bit of strategic thinking out there, who would love to work directly under Emperor's Wrath?

 

Hell, even a stim vendor would do.

 

There is very simple way around it. Just allow players to adjust the role of their companions according to their likings. That way, Vette could become somewhat of a merc healer, Jaesa could develop sorc healing powers and Pierce could go for some operative training.

 

The way in which the decision is made for you is simply plain wrong and it doesn't matter if he's a "valuable resource". Right now we have "you stabbed me in the back and through me an idiot by thinking that 2 droids could take me out but you can heal so be nice and we cool" ********.

 

I really feel that when storylines are expanded, we could have an option to go back to this very situation (maybe a scene aboard the ship in which you tell the crew what happened and are then presented with an option to let him live or "you outlived your usefullness", thus killing him and replacing with different companion to not have -1 when crafting)

 

A thousand times this. It doesnt make sense in a story based MMO not to have consequences. I was deeply disappointed when I learned that Quinn was not killable and that all companions is ultra static apart from their gear.

 

No, making Vette look like a red Twi'Lek is NOT enough. Thats just fluff.

[Nikolei]

I'm pretty sure this topic has already been brought up, but has anybody considered that Malavai simply did the betrayal to save face? So if he failed, Baras wouldn't come after him? He's ran with you for a long time - he would know that his machines would fail.

 

I haven't experienced this part of my SW's storyline yet, so I don't know the dialogue options that exist. But maybe Malavai purposefully failed, knowing you well enough so that you wouldn't kill him, while maintaining his position under Baras.

[DarthRamette]

I'm pretty sure this topic has already been brought up, but has anybody considered that Malavai simply did the betrayal to save face? So if he failed, Baras wouldn't come after him? He's ran with you for a long time - he would know that his machines would fail.

 

I haven't experienced this part of my SW's storyline yet, so I don't know the dialogue options that exist. But maybe Malavai purposefully failed, knowing you well enough so that you wouldn't kill him, while maintaining his position under Baras.

 

I just hit this part of my Quest, it comes after you finish your class quest on Voss and it was pretty damn easy. They were not elites ffs, only silvers and you can have a companion with you. IF Quinn was so studious about watching your every move he would have built something that could have killed you, these things could not have. My humble opinion is that he built them to attack you knowing they would fail so he did his duty to Baras but failed and relied on your generosity in keeping him alive. Of course I am married to him so I kept him alive and forgave him but was still pissed. Needless to say he was sleeping on the couch for a week lol This part of the whole Quinn story is not thought out well and Bioware screwed the pooch on this one.

[Phyreblade]

I always end up coming back to the simple fact this is the Sith we're talking about. Sith will never think of betrayal the way I would, only because I wasn't raised up in a world where betrayal is not only commonplace but even expected. It's about growing your power to a point the betrayal won't ruin or destroy you, not trust that it won't happen. I don't think a Sith would even know what it is to trust, shrug. My warrior NEVER trusted Quinn, she only loved him.

 

And my warrior isn't going to blame Quinn half so much as she blames Baras. Baras is the Sith in the scenario. He is more than capable of using Quinn as a tool, a bludgeon against her, because he's that powerful a character. If Quinn manages to pull it off, the warrior is destroyed, and if he doesn't the warrior is forced to kill someone she cares for. In Baras' mind, it's an utterly win-win scenario. So to my warrior, leaving Quinn alive is almost a poke in the eye, against Baras.

 

Quinn is not a Sith, will never be a Sith. At the least, she's disappointed he didn't make a wiser choice, because she knows he's smarter than that. But she KNOWS him well enough to know what buttons Baras pushed to get him to act as he did, too. Plus, his actions are woefully inadequate, almost patently so. I'm not sure Quinn did much but make a token attempt against the warrior. I tend to roleplay it out he put on what amounted to a show for Baras, enough to say, "See, I did it, it's done, we're even." Once it's done, it's like they can move on with all ties to the past finally and irrevocably severed, and my warrior can do that, again, because she knows Quinn well enough. He's dang obviously loyal to those he owes a debt to, and he so owes her one.

 

No, in the end, my warrior is just more determined in her efforts against Baras. She sees his manipulation of Quinn as the real betrayal, because it comes from as close to an equal opponent as not. Quinn is nothing more than a pawn. Baras' actions, then, are a personal infringement on something she considers nigh sacred, her family. She is more determined than ever to break Baras utterly. And she takes Quinn with her, mostly to prove something to the both of them. Baras is over, she'll make it so.

[sparklecat]

I'm pretty sure this topic has already been brought up, but has anybody considered that Malavai simply did the betrayal to save face? So if he failed, Baras wouldn't come after him? He's ran with you for a long time - he would know that his machines would fail.

 

I haven't experienced this part of my SW's storyline yet, so I don't know the dialogue options that exist. But maybe Malavai purposefully failed, knowing you well enough so that you wouldn't kill him, while maintaining his position under Baras.

 

 

Two problems, second in response to the post following yours:

 

 

1. Only way that works is if his position under Baras is still beneficial; that could have been done if you'd had a way to make him a double agent or some such after leaving him for dead, but that wasn't an option. As it is, the only way having Baras look kindly upon him is useful is if you lose, so Baras takes him back, and while he could probably excuse away all the grovelling, swearing loyalty to, and serving your Warrior, that really just makes him out to be a self-serving coward who doesn't care who wins, and worse, suggests he actually expected that pathetic attempt to work.

 

My preference would've been that Baras had some other type of hold over him, such that appearing to betray you and subsequently being killed by you would be sufficient to keep him from using whatever it was (kidnapped family members, say). Because really, it makes little sense for him to go into that *not* expecting to die.

 

 

2. Nobody who put the slightest bit of stock in their word and doing their duty (i.e., someone like Quinn) could possibly think that such a poor attempt actually counted as such. If that was his motivation, and he wasn't actually trying... doesn't work, IMO.

 

 

 

 

This really was just a contradictory mess, I have to say. Quinn knows your capabilities and isn't incompetent in general; he can't have expected that to work. He gains nothing from the appearance of betraying you without the actual success. Baras has no way to force him into this other than an appeal to duty/debts owed, but that as a motivation contradicts the first point. If he truly believed this was the right thing to do, he'd a) have done a better job, and b) have stuck by his convictions after losing, not instantly jumped to "I'm so sorry, you were right all along and I'm a terrible person for betraying you!"

 

 

 

I've only had two ideas that might work; one, he's just really really conflicted about his relationship with you (which, given that my Sith is straight-up abusive at times and it can be a very one-sided relationship, I could buy), and is basically just committing suicide at that point, until your not killing him makes him think that his feelings might be at least somewhat reciprocated. Given that just before the betrayal, I got the "My Lord, I love you and I think you feel the same way!"/"If you're very lucky, you might hear me say those words someday" conversation, this fits pretty well as an explanation for my case. But that only works for darkside Sith women romancing him (well, I guess it could work in general for darksiders if it's about wanting to be valued/respected by the Sith he serves, which I will say that Baras was pretty good at communicating to his subordinates).

 

 

Two, he strongly buys into the whole Sith philosophy; at the end of the class quest, the Council basically decides that whichever of you and Baras wins in a fight is the one who's speaking the truth. So when you prove your strength, he acknowledges your superiority and the rightness of your cause, a la Lord Rathari. But that still has the problem that the droids were terrible and all you really proved was that you'd figured out moving and the basic attack button.

[Mechavomit]

I'm pretty sure this topic has already been brought up, but has anybody considered that Malavai simply did the betrayal to save face? So if he failed, Baras wouldn't come after him?

If he failed and wasn't killed by the Warrior, he'd be holo-choked the next day by Baras. And I'm honestly surprised that didn't happen. Baras ignores the fact that he's alive. He doesn't even ask WTH happened. Why is that?

 

This is another thing that annoys me.

 

But that still has the problem that the droids were terrible

Maybe he just sucks at building droids? :D

 

He kinda says something about how he's a failure and whatever at the end of that episode. But I don't really remember.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Mechavomit

[Nanashisan]

So I just had a convo with Jaesa when she tells me about how she killed a false Sith. One of the options available to pick was "relish this feeling as there are few bigger pleasures than destroying traitors".

 

Yup, inability to kill Quinn makes perfect sense.

 

I've used Jaesa from the time I got her at 30 till still using her today at 50 So Quinn Betraying you was not a big deal.

I just wish Jaesa could of used her powers to see through him I recall him even mentioning something about it but ya killing him would not of been a big deal if I had the option

 

I would all most go as far as using the ships robot to heal O.o ........all most and gearing him up lol!

but ya Quinn is dead to me

(No really Duel some on your ship and have them kill him,

he re spawns but still)

 

 

I rarely ever use him at all even when I'm doing daily's at 50 nope still dead to me

 

That one part where Pierce says hes going to keep an eye on him for you after Quinn turns on you was a nice touch wish there was more story around your ships crew Talking about each other to you. I mean is a little but more would be cool!

 

 

When they add in more Companions witch I'm sure they will Hopefully we will see more stuff

 

3 acts tho in your class story tho? I recall there being more, idk all in good time.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Nanashisan

[sparklecat]

If he failed and wasn't killed by the Warrior, he'd be holo-choked the next day by Baras. And I'm honestly surprised that didn't happen. Baras ignores the fact that he's alive. He doesn't even ask WTH happened. Why is that?

Presumably the reason Quinn did it there, on that ship, was because it had cameras and such to transmit directly to Baras what happened.

 

Maybe he just sucks at building droids? :D

 

He kinda says something about how he's a failure and whatever at the end of that episode. But I don't really remember.

 

Yeah, I think you can say after the fight that if that was the best he could do, you're better off without him anyway, and he agrees.

 

 

 

Though now I'm wondering... where'd the droids come from, anyway? Quinn's been right with you all this time, he certainly wasn't off buying them, even if he wrote the programming. Baras must've made them available there and had whatever Quinn wrote installed on them. How did they arrange all this, sneaky calls through the holoterminal while your warrior and everyone else was asleep?

[Phyreblade]

*snip*

 

 

I've only had two ideas that might work; one, he's just really really conflicted about his relationship with you (which, given that my Sith is straight-up abusive at times and it can be a very one-sided relationship, I could buy), and is basically just committing suicide at that point, until your not killing him makes him think that his feelings might be at least somewhat reciprocated. Given that just before the betrayal, I got the "My Lord, I love you and I think you feel the same way!"/"If you're very lucky, you might hear me say those words someday" conversation, this fits pretty well as an explanation for my case. But that only works for darkside Sith women romancing him (well, I guess it could work in general for darksiders if it's about wanting to be valued/respected by the Sith he serves, which I will say that Baras was pretty good at communicating to his subordinates).

 

*snip*

 

 

I tend to be inclined towards this chance. Conflicted feelings -- doubts as to whether or not his feelings are truly reciprocated -- would even play into the negligible attempt Quinn made with the droids. He didn't really want to kill the warrior but felt driven to prove something, more to himself than even Baras. It becomes not so much a real attempt to kill the warrior as to demonstrate whether she truly cares for Quinn.

 

Mind you, Baras would have been inclined to use ANY hint of doubt against Quinn, too. It's likely he played upon Quinn's worries and doubts. Consider Quinn's letters to the female warrior, where he describes Pierce's needling him about the dangers of Sith-nonSith relationships. It's something he's thought about, worried after. Baras would've been quick to prod such doubts into full-blown anxieties, to push at Quinn to act upon them.

 

All it does is give me a reason for my warrior to be more ticked off at Baras than Quinn. She passes Quinn's little test, secures his loyalty, and moves on to utterly destroy Baras for daring to use Quinn against her like that. I just get the same feeling from the instance as I did watching Palpatine prodding against Anakin at that opera performance -- it's just plain insidious.

[sparklecat]

I tend to be inclined towards this chance. Conflicted feelings -- doubts as to whether or not his feelings are truly reciprocated -- would even play into the negligible attempt Quinn made with the droids. He didn't really want to kill the warrior but felt driven to prove something, more to himself than even Baras. It becomes not so much a real attempt to kill the warrior as to demonstrate whether she truly cares for Quinn.

What I find interesting is that with such an attempt to discover whether the relationship's real, he may well end up destroying it. Someone does something like that after you've established some degree of mutual trust and understanding, supported and relied upon one another in a variety of situations, even had them say they love you, and you'd have to come out wondering if any of it was real at all, or if it was a ploy all along to get closer to you and make the eventual betrayal easier. I don't believe that's the case - the Jedi Yonlach on Tatooine picks up on the fact that Quinn genuinely cares for you, for one - but I love it as a story element, for how it affects my character.

Mind you, Baras would have been inclined to use ANY hint of doubt against Quinn, too. It's likely he played upon Quinn's worries and doubts. Consider Quinn's letters to the female warrior, where he describes Pierce's needling him about the dangers of Sith-nonSith relationships. It's something he's thought about, worried after. Baras would've been quick to prod such doubts into full-blown anxieties, to push at Quinn to act upon them.

Yeah. My thoughts upon getting that letter were "...you're awfully quick to reassure me that this couldn't possibly come between us/make you doubt me/whatever, for something I wasn't even aware of before you brought it up." And while he says that the whole dying young thing isn't something he's concerned with, he doesn't mention the bit about increased chance of adultery at all; think it's pretty clear that Quinn doesn't feel secure in the relationship, or believe that the warrior is anywhere near as committed as he is. And for my warrior, at least, she recognized this and even used it from time to time to keep him eager to please and dependent on her.

 

I can well believe that Baras would've done his best to reinforce Quinn's beliefs that he wasn't worthy of the warrior, that they could never truly respect him as a non-Sith and saw him simply as a tool to be discarded when he was no longer useful.

All it does is give me a reason for my warrior to be more ticked off at Baras than Quinn. She passes Quinn's little test, secures his loyalty, and moves on to utterly destroy Baras for daring to use Quinn against her like that. I just get the same feeling from the instance as I did watching Palpatine prodding against Anakin at that opera performance -- it's just plain insidious.

Unfortunately, my Warrior isn't quite as insightful regarding what might have been motivating Quinn as people analyzing from outside the game can be She's not very good at empathy, except to the extent that it helps her manipulate people and get at their darker impulses. The idea that Quinn's dissatisfaction with the inequality in their relationship might push him to action, or that she might bear any responsibility in such a case, isn't something that would occur to her because she sees that inequality as the natural order of things, and thinks he does too.

 

 

It makes sense to me for her to originally keep Quinn alive so she can shove it in Baras' face that she won the fight for him (to her mind, this is where Baras made it personal and got her genuinely angry), and by the end, Quinn had proven his sincerity regarding future loyalties in enough situations where he could have really made things difficult for her (getting Vowrawn to safety, remaining loyal in the final fight) that she was willing to keep him around. However, she values personal loyalty extremely highly, if it's not in a context where betrayal is expected. Quinn's actions effectively killed off most, if not all, of the positive feelings and respect she'd developed for him, and I'm not sure if she'll ever regain that.

[Lalush]

And he betray the Emperor Wrath not only a simple Lord of The Sith, he must die. And then u can rebuild him as a mindless droid with no history but with the same skills.

[Mechavomit]

Presumably the reason Quinn did it there, on that ship, was because it had cameras and such to transmit directly to Baras what happened.

And he didn't even have any comments? No, I really wanted to hear him say something about this. Call my warrior "weak" for letting Quinn live. At least. I was expecting it.

The lack of him ever mentiong Quinn again just makes this thing seem even weaker.

 

But anyway, I tend to think Quinn just tried to commit suicide via Sith. And it failed =)

You do feel through the following dialogue that he's ready to die and is all "just make it quick".

[sparklecat]

And he didn't even have any comments? No, I really wanted to hear him say something about this. Call my warrior "weak" for letting Quinn live. At least. I was expecting it.

The lack of him ever mentiong Quinn again just makes this thing seem even weaker.

 

But anyway, I tend to think Quinn just tried to commit suicide via Sith. And it failed =)

You do feel through the following dialogue that he's ready to die and is all "just make it quick".

 

Agreed, for all three.

 

There should've also been more in the way of follow-up conversation, with a new dialogue that automatically comes next regardless of how far along you are in the current ones. Maybe modify it a bit depending on what you've talked about before, like with being able to bring up Moff Broysc to him just before the fight. Ideally, tie conversation progression to story progression a bit better while you're at it, so you simply can't get certain conversations til after the "about my betraying you" one. As it stands, though, it was immensely jarring to come straight out of the betrayal into a marriage proposal five minutes later.

[Phyreblade]

What I find interesting is that with such an attempt to discover whether the relationship's real, he may well end up destroying it.

 

Which only goes to show that people in personal relationships rarely make the "smart" choice. Heck, in my experience, it's the smart people who're most inclined to screw up their relationships. Quinn is a very smart guy, floundering in an emotional mess, with a really nasty fellow pulling his strings.

 

I can well believe that Baras would've done his best to reinforce Quinn's beliefs that he wasn't worthy of the warrior, that they could never truly respect him as a non-Sith and saw him simply as a tool to be discarded when he was no longer useful. Unfortunately, my Warrior isn't quite as insightful regarding what might have been motivating Quinn as people analyzing from outside the game can be She's not very good at empathy, except to the extent that it helps her manipulate people and get at their darker impulses. The idea that Quinn's dissatisfaction with the inequality in their relationship might push him to action, or that she might bear any responsibility in such a case, isn't something that would occur to her because she sees that inequality as the natural order of things, and thinks he does too.

 

I'm not sure I'd call my warrior's ultimate determination in this regards as "insightful". To me, her reaction is based more on an emotional level. She doesn't WANT to be angry with Quinn, she doesn't WANT to kill him, to lose him. She'll rationalize the entire debacle, because it's more than anything an emotional decision based on what it is she really wants. It's just easier to be angry with Baras.

 

 

It makes sense to me for her to originally keep Quinn alive so she can shove it in Baras' face that she won the fight for him (to her mind, this is where Baras made it personal and got her genuinely angry), and by the end, Quinn had proven his sincerity regarding future loyalties in enough situations where he could have really made things difficult for her (getting Vowrawn to safety, remaining loyal in the final fight) that she was willing to keep him around. However, she values personal loyalty extremely highly, if it's not in a context where betrayal is expected. Quinn's actions effectively killed off most, if not all, of the positive feelings and respect she'd developed for him, and I'm not sure if she'll ever regain that.

 

I can relate to all of this, honestly. I just tend to think the Sith have an abysmal appreciation for what it means to love someone. I think they're not inclined to truly appreciate another person, except for what that person can give or do for them. Doesn't mean they don't have loving feelings; it's the actual act of loving I think they end up stumbling around.

[sparklecat]

Which only goes to show that people in personal relationships rarely make the "smart" choice. Heck, in my experience, it's the smart people who're most inclined to screw up their relationships. Quinn is a very smart guy, floundering in an emotional mess, with a really nasty fellow pulling his strings.

Yep. Any relationship with a Sith is going to be incredibly difficult, even if everything else goes perfectly; being in the middle of a power struggle of that magnitude between your partner and their master whom you served before ever meeting them would increase the problems exponentially.

 

I'm not sure I'd call my warrior's ultimate determination in this regards as "insightful". To me, her reaction is based more on an emotional level. She doesn't WANT to be angry with Quinn, she doesn't WANT to kill him, to lose him. She'll rationalize the entire debacle, because it's more than anything an emotional decision based on what it is she really wants. It's just easier to be angry with Baras.

Heh. Yeah, that makes sense. Especially if she's one of those who views Sith as inherently superior, it's easier to say that the non-Sith couldn't help being manipulated in such a way, and he really would have been loyal if he'd not been interfered with. I imagine, for my warrior, that a part of sparing Quinn would have been simply not being willing to let Baras win that one; killing him wouldn't do enough to erase the shame of having been betrayed by one of her own in the first place. But turning him to willingly serve her cause? As Bastila said to Revan, what greater weapon is there?

 

 

I can relate to all of this, honestly. I just tend to think the Sith have an abysmal appreciation for what it means to love someone. I think they're not inclined to truly appreciate another person, except for what that person can give or do for them. Doesn't mean they don't have loving feelings; it's the actual act of loving I think they end up stumbling around.

 

Completely agree; a large part of what drives the tension in my warrior's story is how she balances her need to make connections with others and have real, intimate relationships with her cultural background which tells her such things are unacceptable for a Sith and a sign of weakness. So as a result, she can't give Quinn the affirmations he probably really does need; she'll protect him, and see that as both her duty and the way she can demonstrate her own commitment to maintaining the relationship with him. She'll compliment his work when he does especially well because that's what a good superior does, to motivate their servants. She'll back him up in any professional situations, because he's hers. But she literally cannot conceive of the idea that he might have a purpose other than to serve her, or that there should be compromise between them. She is Sith; she takes what she wants, gives what she wants, and it is his place to be grateful and ask for nothing more.

 

 

For all of that, though, she does want those she cares for to be happy, even if she doesn't completely understand the impulses herself. Which leads to situations like her lashing out at Vette when she dares suggest the warrior has some type of sisterly feelings towards her, yet later sitting politely through an evening with friends of hers she sees as alien trash, because it's important to Vette, she requested it rather than demanding or backing her into a corner, and my warrior isn't willing to let her go off on her own, both for Vette's safety and because she doesn't actually trust her not to run off if she gets the chance.

[Therrak]

For me, Quinn made up for his betrayal with the crazy admiral storyline. But yeah, not having an option to run him through after his betrayal is a major story breaker, likely due to option to kill your companions being removed in beta.

[DarthRamette]

How could you not love the end of the Moff Broysc story, especially when he shows up via holo and rants, that makes me bust up every time I see it. Quinn's voice when Broysc says "He blew up the Glory Space Station!" and Quinn looks at you, face dead pan and says" I have no idea what that is." His tone and facial expression are great.

[IronFirewind]

Could be worse. You could be a Smuggler...

 

(Big Smuggler plotline spoilers contained within)

 

 

Where at the end of Chapter 1 Risha outright turns on you and openly attempts to KILL you. Then she's suddenly back on your side and the game retcons any decision you make about wanting to kill her or abandon her on Nar Shaddaa and she's suddenly forgiven and everything she did forgotten about. It kinda sucks since the game gives you two male romance options AND she plays no important part on the Smuggler storyline after that so you could easily shoot her or kick her out of your crew and not effect the game one bit.

 

Also everyone forgets at this point that you found the treasure of NOK EFFING DREYEN, which should make you the most famous Smuggler ever. Oh! Nok's treasure? You're told you're stupidly rich but Risha only gives you 5000 credits from it even though she promises you all of it and acts like you're richer than bill Gates because you found it...

 

Then you're suddenly not a Smuggler but a Republic Privateer, except not really because you're really an SIS Agent with the serial numbers filed off given than you do very little pirating and more Agenty stuff. If you try to act as though you don't really server to republic the game retcons it all so don't bother trying.

 

Then finally the guy who helps you get your ship back right at the beginning of the game turns out to really be an Imperial spy. Okay it's a fun plot twist that was ruined by being telegraphed from miles away given that everyone with a generic faux-British accent will betray you at some point. Oh and it turns out he's responsible for everything bad that has ever happened to Coruscant for quite a while. Everything.

 

 

Basicaly it's one massive facepalm after another

[Phyreblade]

Could be worse. You could be a Smuggler...

 

(Big Smuggler plotline spoilers contained within)

 

 

Where at the end of Chapter 1 Risha outright turns on you and openly attempts to KILL you. Then she's suddenly back on your side and the game retcons any decision you make about wanting to kill her or abandon her on Nar Shaddaa and she's suddenly forgiven and everything she did forgotten about. It kinda sucks since the game gives you two male romance options AND she plays no important part on the Smuggler storyline after that so you could easily shoot her or kick her out of your crew and not effect the game one bit.

 

Also everyone forgets at this point that you found the treasure of NOK EFFING DREYEN, which should make you the most famous Smuggler ever. Oh! Nok's treasure? You're told you're stupidly rich but Risha only gives you 5000 credits from it even though she promises you all of it and acts like you're richer than bill Gates because you found it...

 

Then you're suddenly not a Smuggler but a Republic Privateer, except not really because you're really an SIS Agent with the serial numbers filed off given than you do very little pirating and more Agenty stuff. If you try to act as though you don't really server to republic the game retcons it all so don't bother trying.

 

Then finally the guy who helps you get your ship back right at the beginning of the game turns out to really be an Imperial spy. Okay it's a fun plot twist that was ruined by being telegraphed from miles away given that everyone with a generic faux-British accent will betray you at some point. Oh and it turns out he's responsible for everything bad that has ever happened to Coruscant for quite a while. Everything.

 

 

Basicaly it's one massive facepalm after another

 

Ah, I loved the smuggler story. My smuggler was a snarky little tell-you-off-straight-to-your-face twi'lek, who ventured through the stars with a really interesting group of people who somehow ended up on her ship. Seriously, where did Skavik find Risha, anyway, hehe?

 

 

Dunno what you mean about Risha trying to kill the smuggler, though. My Risha didn't. She insisted my smuggler was her bestest ever buddy and friend, then outright refused to do her any harm. Her father died spitting about how disappointed he was with her. Perhaps you just didn't impress your Risha, so that she ended up trying to kill you?

 

 

That's sort of my biggest disappointment with Quinn's ultimate betrayal. I really wish we'd been able to convinve him different, talk him out of it, or just plain allow for some chance he wouldn't do it. Like with my smuggler, I suppose. It's disappointing, otherwise.

[IronFirewind]

Ah, I loved the smuggler story. My smuggler was a snarky little tell-you-off-straight-to-your-face twi'lek, who ventured through the stars with a really interesting group of people who somehow ended up on her ship. Seriously, where did Skavik find Risha, anyway, hehe?

 

Yeah I pretty much ended up playing the smuggler in the exact same way XD

 

She was a snarky little human who was always first to dive for cover when it hit the fan, but was also never afraid to tell you off right there and then, or and would always have the audacity to get even more credits if given the slightest chance.