Vydor_HC Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I dont know which world you live in kid but you seem to be hardcore player and I have news flash for you and I hate to break it for you BUT YOU AINT IMPORTANT! Go AWAY! Wuh..... Don't know where that came from. I'm about as casual as it gets. My statement wasn't a condemnation of either style of play, but just my view of how companies use the playerbase. Both styles are important for differing reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities. The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest. If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining. This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact. as a casual i 100% agree with your statement. we casuals never stay subbed past 30 to 45 days. tor has shot an arrow in its own foot with its single player linear focus. i love the game but i wont stay subbed to play a single player game with online options. that is realtively easy too, despite the hard modes. one trick pny enrage timers on 80% of the bosses. just DPS races thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber_Six Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sure are a lot of fanboys in here. When did "fanboy" get redefined to mean anyone not agreeing with a game hater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idunhavaname Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No one cares about you hardcore players..its a game...you need to live a life. This and you're not making any money out of it like SC2 or e-sports players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTheTeepo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) NOPE, but the minorities usually drive the industries. Think about the rich...they are the minority of the world, but they run and drive everything. THEY are the reason people aspire to make more money. Athletes: a majority of people on earth aren't athletes, but they drive us to better ourselves, get better at a sport, and work for a better looking body. Sure, hardcores aren't the majority, but don't deny the fact that THEY are the ones that make mmos what they are. When was the last time in the gaming world where you saw a casual gamer create trends(and not just adding "z" to the end of words, or little silly sayings) I disagree. Which is more important to America: A) The rich B) Everyone else The rich may be the most notable individuals, but without everyone else the rich would be NOTHING. They would have NOTHING. The "everyone else" group is, as a whole, more necessary and integral to the country as a whole than "the rich" are. While 10% of the playerbase (random statistic) may -- individually -- drive the game more than the 90%, the 90% speak with a much larger voice and are the more necessary of the two groups in my opinion. I don't hate hardcores, I actually identify with them more than I do casual. But I realize that just because I play the game more and with more drive, that does not mean that I'm entitled to special content tailored for my 10% and my 10% alone. Edited January 17, 2012 by BobTheTeepo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhosis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Casuals pay the bills. You're pretty much wrong on every point OP. If hardcores paid the bills then Rift would be the top MMO right now. They completely focused on raids to the detriment of everything else. Rift is in complete failure now proving once again- Casuals pay the bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckroll Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game into the ground. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create awful communities. The hardcore give the casuals someone to look down to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and hope they will never be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play less and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any awful future to look forward to casuals gain interest. If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on fun content for everyone which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that people can get without playing 80 hours a week. This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact. FYP bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuichix Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 When did "fanboy" get redefined to mean anyone not agreeing with a game hater? 2006, fanboy is the new "haters" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarverX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Biggest fail post ever. This is not some f2p item mall mmo where the big buyers can say they literaly fund the game. We all pay the same rate. This is also not wow so what you did there is irrelevant. You have no impact other than being an early bug reporter. I saw another fail thread like this last night. Something like "raid parties fund the game". They don't. I see the same "hardcore" losers from mmo to mmo. Speed level to max level in a week and then bash the game because they are "bored". Duh?? That is kind of why they call it "the end". Like someone said move on to your next game to whine and complain in your search for your "perfect mmo". Here you are just another player, lvl 20 or 50. Pay your monthly fee like the level 5 or move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TItanten Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. I'm sure the Hardcore UO players were wanting Trammel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doamy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities. The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest. If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining. This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact. You are missing the fact this is not a true MMO. It is a single player with a sub to keep the casuals paying for the story (or multiple stories) they are slowly working through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities. The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest. If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining. This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact. You got it dead on. Great Post!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The Hardcore are what drive MMO's. So goes the hardcore, so goes SWTOR which is why games like Darkfall are so abundant, and why WoW is so unsuccessful Edited January 17, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakner Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Sure are a lot of fanboys in here. You got it dead on. Great Post!!! Sure glad there will be a lot less of you on the 21st , just sayin. Edited January 17, 2012 by Brakner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I've played MMOs as a hardcore. I've played MMOs as a casual. Guess what? Nobody cares either way. It's like that music you think is so awesome that you have to blast it so loud that people can hear it 2 blocks away. Or every Youtube video you make has to have death metal to show everyone how serious you are. Guess what? Nobody else thinks your music is cool, so save yourself the headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It is fact. Only in your mind it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditboo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The difference between hardcore and casual is best measured with a clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuNegra Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Biggest fail post ever. This is not some f2p item mall mmo where the big buyers can say they literaly fund the game. We all pay the same rate. This is also not wow so what you did there is irrelevant. You have no impact other than being an early bug reporter. I saw another fail thread like this last night. Something like "raid parties fund the game". They don't. I see the same "hardcore" losers from mmo to mmo. Speed level to max level in a week and then bash the game because they are "bored". Duh?? That is kind of why they call it "the end". Like someone said move on to your next game to whine and complain in your search for your "perfect mmo". Here you are just another player, lvl 20 or 50. Pay your monthly fee like the level 5 or move on. This should be mandatory reading before posting on this forum is even allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabarok Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah it was all those hardcore gamers that didn't move on to another title in SWG that kept it alive until the day it died. I wouldn't consider them "hardcore". To most people, "hardcore" players in an MMO are considered to be either the dedicated PvPers or the end-game raiders who focus on such a single facet and optimize their character to absolute perfection. To them, it's all about overcoming the challenge in PvP/Raid, and they are always pushing the bar on difficulty. MMOs that cater to these players will lose out on the casuals who don't want seemingly insurmountable challenges. One of the things MMOs have done to resolve this conflict is to offer raids with difficulty levels. If there's one thing that Hardcores do offer to the community at large, it's problem solving. If there's a balance issue in PvP, hardcore PvPers will be taking advantage of it to the max. If there is a trick to make a raid easier, hardcore raiders will find it. Us casuals benefit on what the hardcore players discover, because we follow in their footsteps at where they have already been. As the hardcore players solve the hardest raids, it puts pressure on the devs to come out with harder raids, which the hardcore players work to overcome. While this can be seen as "driving the MMO forward", it can also cause the casuals to be left behind, and when this happens, everyone realizes how important the casual playerbase is for the company's bottom line. That's when the balance shifts the other way and the hardcore players are left out to focus on the money-making casuals. Devs will try their best to appeal to both hardcore & casual players, but it's hard to do that at launch. Bioware tries to make their hardest raids satisfying to hardcore raiders, but it's hard to do that without hardcore raiders pushing the limits. So they put out what they have, and see how the hardcore handles it. The next content patch will take into account what they learned, and hardcores will push the limit again. It'll probably take 2 years of back & forth between Bioware and the hardcore raiders before the raiders start feeling satisfied. Stick with SWTOR and keep offering Bioware constructive feedback on specific things they can do to appeal to the hardcore raiders, more than generic "moah raids & moah content" With the fairly fast & linear leveling curve, and the fact that there are already flashpoints that exist at every level range, I fully expect that the vast majority of new content added will be for end-game, but not all of it focused on "hardcore" players necessarily. Endgame != Harcore. There will probably also be some non-combat new content that appeal most to the casuals, such as social areas to explore & hang out in or non-combat activities (like fishing & festivals in LOTRO) Those who stuck with SWG, I don't call consider the entire playerbase "hardcore", but I would consider them "dedicated". SWTOR will have its own dedicated playerbase that will create the foundation to keep SWTOR going. Some of these dedicated players will also be hardcore PvP/Raiders, but not all of them and certainly not so soon in an MMO development cycle. As for communities, some of the best MMO communities I've been a part of have been run by dedicated casuals who were more interested in the socializing aspect than the gameplay aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylarke Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This has been true since the days of UO/EQ1. The hardcore drive the game. They are the most involved in every aspect of the game and are the ones who create communities. The hardcore give the casuals someone to look up to. Casuals look at the hardcore gamer and their gear and accomplishments and want to be like them. This in turns gets casuals to play more and push to be more hardcore themselves. Without the hardcore crowd casuals will never see what they could possibly become and without any cool goals to look forward to casuals lose interest. If SWTOR is to succeed it needs to focus a good chunk of its dev time on endgame content which is difficult and gives out rare rewards that few will get but everyone will dream of obtaining. This dynamic has been proven true time and time again. It is no longer hypothesis. It is no longer even a theory. It is fact. I've been playing MMORPs since 1999 (AC/EQ) and find your so-called "facts" to be utter nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateKrucible Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Masterful trolling. Simply masterful. I take my hat of to you, sir. The very idea that a game with 1.5 million+ subscribers revolvers around, nay, depends on, the minescule handful who play it non-stop - simply hilarious. And the way you got people to take you seriously! Simply masterful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sure glad there will be a lot less of you on the 21st , just sayin. Oh is that when I'm quitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loppsided Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Haha, the opinions some people come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedalusmachine Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The hardcores are the one's who play it and contribute to it the most. If you're referring to end game raiding hardcores here's a tasty WoW statistic for ya courtesy of WOWprogress.com. 1.6M characters have downed a boss in T11 or higher content. Since most end game raiders have multiple alts that raid, the number of players will be lower. That best case 1.6M is but 14.6% of the total 11.1M subscriber base. They are the niche, not the core. The only ones who look up to the hardcores you described are the hardcores themselves, and probably spend copious amounts of time in front of a mirror doing it. I <3 you for dropping some factual knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zistar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If they put all their focus into endgame hardcore content they would neglect the lion share of their population which is the casual player. That does not make good business sense. I'm not saying they should neglect it either. Balance. And sorry, but I don't look up to hardcore raiders and I don't care what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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