I hate all the Consular Companions

[dargor-]

I have to agree that for the most part the consular companions a big disapointment, especially when you look over at the inquisitor companions...

 

Hell, even the big tanky monster Khem has a more interesting story than 3/4 of the consular companions.

 

Yet another reason Republic is empty

Edited January 23, 2012 by dargor-

[QuiQuaeQuod]

Clearly the title was designed to attract attention. However, I value your opinions on our companion characters. I hope that someone can point out endearing characteristics about them that would show me the light, so to speak, so I don't continue to find them all too annoying.

 

Me: level 50 Pure Healer spec, maxed light side (the entire way through) (female gamer and toon)

 

Qyzen Fess:

 

Playability-okay. I never had any real issues with him tanking for me, other than his lag time getting into combat, or going from enemy to enemy, and his overuse of area effects that ruined my cc. However, he was okay.

 

Personality-wise, he was a bit of a jerk. He never liked my light side choices unless they were about killing things for scores,and he was basically a braggart. I couldn`t stand how he kept judging people for being weak, when he couldn't do much of anything solo without me there to save his skin. I just found this a bit too 2-dimensional for character development when what he went through on Typhon should have taught him some compassion for others.

 

Theran Cedrax:

 

 

Playability-good for certain areas. He has the all-powerful interrupt that is extremely useful and in some cases necessary. I personally didn`t use him that often because i kept my healer spec the entire way to level 50.

 

Personality: I am a woman, and this guy was a misogynistic creep. I kept wanting to clobber him on the head with a bat, but then I wouldn't have been able to use him in the boss fights. Also, Holiday - While I took the holographic tart with a grain of salt, I can totally see how this could be offensive to some women.

 

 

Zenith:

 

 

Playability - good for dps. I used him for a full planet and had no issues.

 

Personality - not too bad actually. He's the tough rogue stereotype, I was actually hoping that he was the love interest for the female toon.

 

 

Lt. Felix Iresso:

 

 

Playability - pretty good for tanking. Tends to aggro a little more than is necessary. But I used him for most of Corellia with no really bad issues.

 

Personality- I was sooo disappointed when I found out that he was the love interest. He whines about his memory, his troops don't seem to trust him, and he was captured. Hardly someone to look up to. Even some of the things that he says when you click on him are annoying...he says something like 'you'd better watch it', I guess threatening you because you got in his space. He is basically an immature teenage male who talks tough. I absolutely can't stand him. As much as I wanted to experience every aspect of the game, there was NO way I was going to romance this guy, he's a douche.

 

 

this brings me to...

 

Nadia Grell:

 

 

Playability - pretty good for dps, but she's fragile.

 

Personality - I don't play with her specifically because of the things she says when she needs heals. Including a pseudo-erotic, 'It hurts!' I can't imagine which animae-loving fanboi had her say that in that tone of voice, but I absolutely understand why the male players want to play her. On the one hand she is supposed to be tough...she kills people, etc., and on the other, she is completely subservient to you and only wants to please you.

 

 

Anyway, to sum up, I found the consular companions to be 2-dimensional charicatures at best, and completely misogynistic fan-boi fantasies at worst. Thankfully, now that I'm at level 50, I won't need to use any of them very often.

 

Please let me know your opinions, especially if you disagree. I would like to know if you are seeing something that I am not.

 

Thank you.

 

On some accounts you're right; many of the companions are useless - especially as DPS or Tank, and not everyone wants to sit around healing a companion all day for the entire game. Zenith is too stereotypically bad boy traumatised by his home's destruction, Qyzen is a pretty one-dimensional killing machine and Iresso is a whiny badly done to soldier.

 

To then draw out Dr. Cedrax (perhaps the only one with an iota of charisma) and spin him into some 'offensive' misogynist pig is just sad; even is he is that bad it's a fictional character who has been purposefully scripted to have that specific persona - I cannot see how he could ever be viewed as offensive unless one is on some unrealistic moral crusade to rid the world of diversity of personality, but I digress, since he barely does anything that could really be considered sexist. He likes women, big woop. Many women like men in the same manner, it works both ways.

 

As for complaining about Holiday... The whole point of that character is that she's comic relief. No doubt you didn't see the point of the character; she's a play on the stereotype of nerdy males - the computerised companion to a technology-obsessed man; she's meant to be an analogy to nerds who enjoy playing through romances in RPGs, except Tharan is the player. It's a caricature, once again the character is intentionally scripted to be that cringing and that stereotypical; she is the mockery of the stereotype of a lonely male geek made into an actual character for comic relief, especially in a game that will be played by so many male geeks.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Zoggel
Rude

[Ithilwen]

I must say that some of the comments in this thread were quite funny, particularly the ones about Tharan and Zenith ^^

 

I'm only up to Quesh so i've just goten Zenith, but i did finish the storyline quests before some of the others.

 

I play as a Sage Healer, the only skills i have outside of the Seer Tree benefit my healing abilities...

Once you get some better healing abilities playing as a healer is much more interactive, and Qyzen is awsome for tanking, but i do find his voice annoying. So far i havent had any problems with aproval, i havent stuck to roleplaying so in dialog i try to pick what is going to gain me affection, to begin with i'd still always go for lightside options regardless, but i have Diplomacy as a mission skill and only really do the light side ones, so i got to light V pretty easily. I figure the smaller dialog options probably wont have much if any impact on the events of the game so i might as well make the most out of them.

 

By the time i got Tharan i was sick of Qyzen, but found Tharan useless, i just fed him gifts to get the dialog options .... It was funny how everytime Holliday dissapeared he starts hitting on you,

At least untill he dumps you because Holliday finds out and starts electricuting his bunk... Then it's hilarious

 

After a while i got sick of healing Qyzen and decided i wanted to try some DPS (while still geared and skilled as a healer)... Which was definately interesting, killing became so much slower, and i died a lot more so it didnt last long.

However when i reached Belsavis i decided to try again, i geared myself up with more endurance,(over 8k hp) but still enough wis/power that there was little decrease in my healing/damage, and i got Tharan some new gear, I did the entire planet with Tharan healing me. Ofcourse there were several occasions where i stood there healing myself, while Tharan healed himself, which eventually ended in my death because i was also trying to take the mobs off of him... but that was early on while i was still adjusting from my play style with Qyzen. Once you get used to it, 'tanking' mobs even Elites isn't that hard, depending on the types of skills some may be tougher to kill, but it's still manageable. Just as long as there aren't too many strong mobs on you at once xD.

'Jedi save me!'

 

The first time i met Zenith i was like <3. As soon as i finished the storyline i took him out as my companion, although I found he needed some better gear... even Tharan had more HP and deffence than him. I much prefer his voice acting and dialog to my other two companions, and i've found that i can still play as a DPS with him, i just use Force Quake while he kills the one standing outside the AOE then picks of the others, or we just flaten them when they're too spread out. Taking on Strong targets is easier with him because of the damage he deals, but healing him goes almost nowhere (his gear could probably be better) It's probably easier using Qyzen, and just healing him, but that gets quite boring after a while.

I never would have thought i'd romance an alien, but if i could romance Zenith, i would

Stuff he say's when dieing...lol xD

'Pain is a word...' 'Medpack now' 'Can't Breath' ... xD

i know i'm a healer, but i'm not sure if i want to go DPS or stay a Healer, hence why i havent been healing my companions... they dont die often, i start healing when they start dieing, and then they're all good till they start dieing again...

 

As for C2-N2 ... I found some of the stuff he says funny... but i've heard it all so many times that it's not humerous at all anymore.

 

I like the Consular companions, i've found them interesting so far, and i havent had a problem with affection... although i'm not realy serious on the roleplay side of things, so my character just says whatever.

[Arodin]

I haven't read the responses or all of the first post because I have only played far enough to get Qyzen and Theran... having said that, here's my take on it.

 

Playability: prior to playing my Sage, I played an Imperial Agent Sniper, and I struggled with all of the companions except for the healer -- contrary-wise, I find both Qyzen and Theran extremely helpful in their own way. Theran seems to be marginally more useful to me than Qyzen in most situations (since I'm specced for DPS), but I can do quite well with either of them.

 

Personality: I don't mind if some companions rub me the wrong way, personality-wise. I can "love to hate them" just as easily as love them, especially since I can usually express those negative feelings in conversations with them. I prefer characters that aren't perfect little angels. They are more interesting if they have flaws in their character.

 

Having said that, I am hoping some other companions that I get later will have some more redeeming qualities...

[KTheAlchemist]

Your rampant feminism is painfully annoying. It's a game, it's not intended to be sexist

 

Sexism very often comes not from an intent to be so, but from a lack of an intent to not.

 

She sees it that way, you don't. It would have been sufficient to say that you don't see things that way, but you seem far more concerned with attacking her viewpoints and labeling them with terms that you see as negatives (feminism, and I think you throw some cobbled femi-prefixes in there too) instead of just speaking your mind on the topic itself.

 

At any rate, I rather agree with the OP's take on the companions. It's a rough call, because I vastly enjoy the Jedi Knight, Smuggler, and Trooper companions and plots (what of them I've seen anyway), but I vastly enjoy the Consular (Shadow) style of gameplay.

Edited January 23, 2012 by KTheAlchemist

[Eutoxis]

I was so upset when I first found out I had a giant lizard man as a companion, but Qyzen really grew on me. I almost think he's adorable at times lol~ Aside from the whole wookie killing thing... that was not adorable or ok =-=

 

I do love me some Qyzen. He's there to remind me that being a Jedi isn't always about being a wuss, and that being on the Light Side isn't a popularity contest.

 

Guy playing female toons here, because if i have to watch a tush run around for 50 levels, it's not going to be man tush.

 

My consular is basically a celibate mystic, yes? Who got carefully tutored in "no romance" on Tython. There's a whole quest around it, yes?

 

So why do I have this simpering twit on my ship who:

 

leers and drools over me,

has a holoplaymate with him,

hates the Force,

won't ST*U

won't GT*O?

 

I could send him into battle naked to get killed and leave him dead, but I'd still have to listen to his simpering whine when I do space combat...

 

...and don't even get me started on the other companions I can't get rid of (Risha, Fey Threepio, etc).

 

It's my ship. Can't a playa get a LOCK for that airLOCK?

[Sevorex]

Greetings, i'm one of many male players, and I'm playing a shadow consular.

 

This is what I think about the companions:

 

 

Qyzen fess: He's a simple minded but to the most extent a nice being, easy to handle if you understand his thinking which could have been worse to be honest, he's a mild lamb compared to, say, khem val that the inquisitors get.

 

Theran Cedrax: All the time he seems to say "did I mention i'm a pacifist?" and he prefers to solve things without violence so fits the consular well to be honest. I can understand if female players don't like him, but I end up finding him pretty comical because he's personality is quite interesting.

 

Zenith: Hmm... He didn't wanna join the crew on the ship in the first place, and more often than not during conversations on the ship he's ended up with minus affection, once when I was going on a rescue mission he got all mad because I think you should leave nobody behind... srsly what a douche he is:cool:

 

Lt. Iresso: Haven't talked with him much but he seems to be an alright person and seemed happy to join the crew.

 

Nadia Grell: well, what can I say? it's pretty obvious she was made for the male audience.

 

The droid: Not worse or better than the droids other classes get imo.

 

 

[Eutoxis]

Just.. Really, go take a chill pill.

 

You know, maybe the person you're ragging on should get to have a good experience playing this game too.

 

And maybe pointing out the bizarre and arguably annoying patterns in companion design might help the devs move toward a less stereotypical game. Given that this is Bioware, it shouldn't have to be that big a nudge.

[Dashall]

I have a 50 Trooper and my Sage alt just hit 16. I'm already underwhelmed with the companion list.

 

The class itself on the other hand is walking the fine line between overpowered and very powerful. At least at this point. We'll see how the rest of it goes.

 

Bioware should make sure the next companion they add to Consular is a very good one. Really that's all you need.

[magnuskn]

Why? They've got to save themselves some material to use later.

 

Because it should be prime story material. Hell, we even had Daniel Erickson giving statements about Jedi romance being a field of conflict. Instead of that, we got barely anything.

 

I might well be wrong. But if they don't include that in their main story, I don't see them being interested in picking it up later.

[Aethus]

I have a 50 Trooper

 

Troopers get great companions!

 

Consulars not so much. Considering the Consular inspiration comes from Obi-Wan Kenobi, I imagine Nadia will end up trying to murder us in our sleep anyways. Theran doesn't annoy me nearly as much as he seems to annoy some people, but he isn't great either. I can definitely see him as the male same-gender romantic option in the future, haha!

 

I'm not sure about companions going forward. Since its such a large part of the game mechanic I'd like to see some sort of progression, but for the most part people stick with one and leave the rest on the ship. Think something needs to be done there, a re-alignment of skills maybe? Customizations to skillsets?

 

Also, in general, consular needs more RP options. Right now its pretty much catered for lightside only.

[ThePirateMD]

blame another woman, jennifer hepler, for the junky consular story + companions, she was the lead writer

[Dodger-San]

I cant use anyone BUT Qyzen. I need his Melee and Agro to keep them off of me. Tried Thran (sp) and dumped him after 1 battle. Then Zenith, but he is a ranged attack, why would I want a ranged attacker standing next to me and my ranged attacks?

 

They need to fix Qyzen fast. The Aim vs STR thing is getting too much at 38. I have to custom buy all of his gear because is 'named' gear always has Aim in it and no Str. I know they changed their mind at the last moment on him but they need to fix his stats before they push more content on us.

 

As a healer how can any of you go far with anyone but Qyzen? I dont get it..

[Alkiii]

I cant use anyone BUT Qyzen. I need his Melee and Agro to keep them off of me. Tried Thran (sp) and dumped him after 1 battle. Then Zenith, but he is a ranged attack, why would I want a ranged attacker standing next to me and my ranged attacks?

 

They need to fix Qyzen fast. The Aim vs STR thing is getting too much at 38. I have to custom buy all of his gear because is 'named' gear always has Aim in it and no Str. I know they changed their mind at the last moment on him but they need to fix his stats before they push more content on us.

 

As a healer how can any of you go far with anyone but Qyzen? I dont get it..

 

If you're a healer and Nadia Grell is dying, you're either doing it wrong or you're taking on groups 5 levels above you ...

[ratfanatic]

Guy playing female toons here, because if i have to watch a tush run around for 50 levels, it's not going to be man tush.

 

I realize you must have enormous sexual insecurities but this really has nothing to do with the OP.

[Alkiii]

I realize you must have enormous sexual insecurities but this really has nothing to do with the OP.

 

^^^ Hypocrisy at its finest. ^^^

On that same note, I found absolutely no "sexual insecurities" within his reply like you're implying here. So why the hate?

 

 

**

 

Anyways, I do hope the developers do a few things to spice up the companions for the Consular. I would also hope they would do something about our dreadful looking Starship and the absolutely horrific-looking end game gear (lol @ males wearing Queen Amidala lamp shades for head gear).

[KTheAlchemist]

^^^ Hypocrisy at its finest. ^^^

On that same note, I found absolutely no "sexual insecurities" within his reply like you're implying here. So why the hate?

 

 

**

 

Anyways, I do hope the developers do a few things to spice up the companions for the Consular. I would also hope they would do something about our dreadful looking Starship and the absolutely horrific-looking end game gear (lol @ males wearing Queen Amidala lamp shades for head gear).

 

Males schmales, I'm a female player with a female character and I think those things are hideous. The rest of the gear isn't bad but it'd be nice if we weren't the one class in the game that I point at and instantly go "I'll have to use the hide helmet option." (On the end-game raid gear).

Edited January 23, 2012 by KTheAlchemist

[ShakesMcQueen]

I think Qyzen is my favourite actual companion personality-wise, but I just couldn't stand to listen to his alien croaking any more after a while.

 

Tharan was the most useful, but personality-wise I couldn't stand him. And as light-side character, he's insufferable to bring into conversations. He interjects with pithy comments all the time, and you suffer a penalty with him if you reference anything Jedi or mystical - even if it's clearly real.

 

Zenith was like a brooding teenager. I disliked him already by the time he joined my crew. Still wearing the gear he started with, despite me being lvl 50, because I never use him.

 

C2-N2... well what needs to be said. They either need to add way more quotes for him on the ship, or they need to get rid of them altogether.

 

Iresso I haven't talked to much, so I don't have an opinion.

 

Nadia just seems like an over-eager little kid. I'll occasionally use her when I need a DPS boost in a fight, but she seems to get herself killed quickly unless I pull all the aggro off her (I'm an infil spec Shadow).

 

I want the big robot the Troopers get. I'm always jealous when I see them at the fleet. Or Bowdaar, though the wookie voice would probably get really annoying after a while too. All of the alien wakka wakka gets grating and repetitive after a while.

 

- Scott

[Doesithurt]

I have still not got a char up to level 50.

I am to busy leveling up lots of different chars:D

Just for the fun of it am I leveling up 4 female light side chars, one of each class and 4 male dark side chars, one of each class.

I have just reached lv 30+ on each class.

 

I must say that so far has Jedi Consular the worst companions by far.

I totally avoid to use Theran Cedrex. I don't care how good or bad he is at healing/fighting.

Everytime he talks, I feel an urge to mentally slap him.

He and the C2-N2 that all classes share can both be dropped in a black hole.

I think Qyzen Fess is acceptable as tank, but he is VERY slow to react and when he still used his aoe even when turned off has been very frustrating. And his lizard croaking gets on my nerves sometimes.

 

And why are there so few female companions?

Specially for the Republic classes.

 

Hopefully I will be more satisfied with the Consular companions when I finally reach lv 50:)

[ZaeBelochka]

i play female jedi sage healer and i like my compations (maybe acsept Zenith, but i guess it's a planned player's reaction ) . Only thing i wanted to be better worked out - their connection to quest lines. For example Jedi Knight's companions (exept Rusk and Doc) are closely involved in class quest. And we have only Nadia playing a great role in the quest

 

Qyzen is very useful in combat, but when I got Iresso i stuck to him. And that problem with aim as Qyzen's primary stat confuses my mind, but he tanks well in aim gear. I liked his personality untill found out about his attitude to wookie. But it's the part of his culture and i could only admit it, it was even a bit comic,

 

when Qyzen suggested making a gift for Iresso out of defeatd wookie

 

. When i had only Qyzen and Theran at mid levels i even wanted to make somebody third out of them with Qyzens personality and Theran's looks

But i still haven't finished his affection quest line/

 

Theran is rather useful too.

 

I defeated Vivicar with him. At first i tried to do it if Qyzen, but thought that it would be easier with Theran, Holiday was very helpful

 

Also he was the best choice for heroics 4. I did all of them with my husband's Jedi guardian as a tank + 2 companions

As to his personality, it's very amusing if u consider him as a gay-friend or somewhat like this. At first i planned to make romance with as much companions as possible. But then i gave up that idea and haven't managed to romance with Theran. So if u not take him serious he's rather amusing. And to me his stun with Holiday dancing is a better animation then Doc's carbon stun

 

Zenith is my problem. As i prefer light side, class questing with him is a complete failure, plenty of minuses. I can hardly imagine how to romance with this crazy guy. While talking to him i always want to choose an answer like "Would u ever change?" or "Uhhh....Again?". Maybe it would be not so awful he he didn't speak about politics.

And i don't like him in a combat. He has a significant delay at the beginning of the fight. Besides DD and a healer isn't a best pair.

 

Unlikely to other girls here i like Iresso. When i got him i wanted to change his looks, but other options were even worse. And now i like his looks and i think it fits him well. He's nice, tough guy outside and romantic and soft inside. Girls usually like such guys in real life. Maybe if i was i teenager or just above 20 i'd prefer somebody more heroic and complicated. But to me it's a good romatic interest. And i'd like his loss-memory story to be continued in later patches

As to gameplay Iresso also fits well cause he is a tank. And it's extremely easy to gane affection with him for a light-sided jedi, almost impossible to get minuses

 

Nadia. I like her personality much more then for examply JK Kira's. I don't like her looks, but still there many men who like her. And i'm a little dissappointed that there's no way to make best friends with her when u're playing a girl character, she'd just your padawan. I think it would be rather logical and interesting since she's my only female companion

[Cleet_Xia]

I'm only up to my 3rd companion so far. My experience thus far.

 

1. Qyzen- absolutely necessarily for a consular of any spec to solo any content on Coruscant. Actually pretty funny. Seems like he's trying TOO hard to understand how to get along with a "human" perspective of social mores. When, acording to lore, trandosians eat their siblings as soon as they hatch. As his story has unfolded thus far, he seems to suffer from a severe case of idol worship. It feels very much like, "of mice and men". I run with a #2 male zabrak toon. We look like mutt and jeff - nearly matching horns. he genuinely wants to emulate the consular character, but he doesn't quite understand that perspective. I make my choices as are ethically in charachter, and don't worry about how Qyzen will judge me- becuase his intention seems to be to learn from me. I think that is what the devs were shooting for. I got kind of agravated about not being able to get techblades or customizations for him, but 90% of the model is covered by gear- so that's some good customization in the game. But if you give him a on level grade techblade- he slaughters mobs before you get to show off your abilities as a consular. I feel a little let down that I'm probably going to run with this guy through to the end. It's interesting to have a buddy that considers every living thing in the universe a potential meal, not out of disrespect or a misguided sense of superiority - but just out of biological capaicty to make a meal out of almost every living thing in the universe.

 

 

 

 

2. C2- N2 - I hate this droid.....hate it.........hate on it some more.. I can't even get past trying to listen to it's verbal acknowledgements. I need to be able to buy a companion customization for it, that cannot speak. I'd trade this thing for a broken astromech that didn't even run crew missions. I suppose dps sage/shadows kind of needed this option to survive Taris if they didn't want to play conservatively.

 

3. Theran/holliday - ...... this guy is creepy. Everytime I talk to him, I feel like I need to apply lysol to my ship. I won't log out while on my ship because of this guy. The whole obsession with holiday, a being that portrays itself by holoraphic repressentaion as an unrealistically rendered female.... bizarre.... like bodies in the backyard bizarre. I don't want to think about what he and holiday do when no one else is around. It's almost like the holo dancer the CE purchasers got..... Oh NO !!! Really should not have gone into that circular thought pattern. But this one seems to be the go to guy for pure dps play.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2012 by Cleet_Xia

[Dashall]

Troopers get great companions!

 

Consulars not so much.

 

Agree!

 

Trooper companions are really good. I still long for a Jawa and the other female companions are in many cases superior to Elara, but overall I cant complain.

 

One thing about Troopers though is we interact a lot with Agent Jaxo (not sure if others get this as well) and she is far cooler than our resident healer Elara Dorne so it's frustrating to not get her on the team. Maybe in the expansion or content patch.

[blacksarevok]

I like Qyzen and Zenith (I agree with the Zenith + romance thing).

 

Tharan is an ***.

 

Iresso had potential, but I feel like he was a rushed, last minute character. Similar to Sergeant Rusk, but worse.

 

100% agree with OP on Nadia... she's essentially a 15 year old girl with super powers, most likely made to appease the fanboys. Disappointing, and that's coming from a male player.

 

 

The entire time I was playing my Consular all I could think was "Man, I miss Doc!".

Edited January 24, 2012 by blacksarevok

[iCanUseTheForce]

This makes me very sad. I love my Sage and to think my future companions will be whiney and lifeless is a bit disheartening. I'm male, but my toon is female cuz the male republic jedi look goofy. To think that I'll have a whiney wuss of a soldier as my toon's love interest is insulting and the sassy ****ty companion will be a constant reminder that I should have rolled male, if only to enjoy that awkward relationship.

 

Maybe I'll reroll or start a Sorcerer. But I'm 18 and doing that again is not something I look forward to.

Edited January 24, 2012 by iCanUseTheForce

[Jatne]

I highly doubt that this will happen. If the writers dropped the ball for the storyline in the main game, I don't think they will pick it up for an expansion. If there were some serious consequences for romancing your companion as a Jedi, the time to introduce it would have been now.

 

The game is set, like LoTRO, in chapters. This is just chapter I-III. Why would they put their major plot twists in the first game? It would make no sense at all, financially or from a story perspective.

 

Sexism very often comes not from an intent to be so, but from a lack of an intent to not.

 

She sees it that way, you don't. It would have been sufficient to say that you don't see things that way, but you seem far more concerned with attacking her viewpoints and labeling them with terms that you see as negatives (feminism, and I think you throw some cobbled femi-prefixes in there too) instead of just speaking your mind on the topic itself.

 

At any rate, I rather agree with the OP's take on the companions. It's a rough call, because I vastly enjoy the Jedi Knight, Smuggler, and Trooper companions and plots (what of them I've seen anyway), but I vastly enjoy the Consular (Shadow) style of gameplay.

 

The simple truth is: Companions are there as a mechanic to aid leveling. This is an MMORPG, it is intended to be played with other humans. The storylines of your companion are secondary to your own personal story AND the main story of the game... if it bothers you THAT much, there are seven other classes to try.