Same gender relationships clarifications?

[RayceUlrand]

The story isn't solely based on romancing a companion, and the fact that despite all the work, the acting, everything put into this game gives you some good experiences, certain people wish to stomp their feet on the ground immaturely until Bioware gives into their demands. (Some people don't do this, but a lot do, and think they don't look insane for doing so)

 

Think about that for a second ...they said they were including them after launch.

 

This is not a dating simulator, play the game until you get to romance someone that's your same sex.

 

Or, you know, leave over it if that's your idea of taking a stand. I wish I had the mentality that would let me think it wasn't silly to leave a game based on one thing that does not define the MMO entirely. ..but I can't, because this MMO has a LOT more to offer than merely getting a companion in bed.

Edited February 7, 2012 by RayceUlrand

[MasterAidenFlux]

I do hope that the GLBT and those who just like seeing same-gender relations will surely get represented sooner rather than later.

[liquidekkah]

Let's be honest here:

 

While there are obviously homosexuals who want same-gender romances in the game, 90% of the people asking for it are men playing as female bounty hunters that want in to Mako's pants.

[Rayla_Felana]

The story isn't solely based on romancing a companion, and the fact that despite all the work, the acting, everything put into this game gives you some good experiences, certain people wish to stomp their feet on the ground immaturely until Bioware gives into their demands. (Some people don't do this, but a lot do, and think they don't look insane for doing so)

 

Think about that for a second ...they said they were including them after launch.

 

This is not a dating simulator, play the game until you get to romance someone that's your same sex.

 

Or, you know, leave over it if that's your idea of taking a stand. I wish I had the mentality that would let me think it wasn't silly to leave a game based on one thing that does not define the MMO entirely. ..but I can't, because this MMO has a LOT more to offer than merely getting a companion in bed.

 

You have obviously failed to understand a massive part of a heroes journey is their loyal companion/partner what would the Star Wars saga be without Padme? just a random guy who went ******* for no reason, put in Padme, then you have an actual reason instead of being dumb **** insane.

 

Maybe some people don't care for crafting, or raids or PvP, maybe they came here for the storyline that they see in all other BioWare games, part of that story is the option to have a romance with a companion, it's a corner stone of Bioware storytelling, one of the main plot points to Revan's story was his relationship to Bastila Shan.

 

Some people quit for this, some people quit for other things, just because they don't matter to YOU, doesn't mean they should be so small and miniscule to everyone else, grow up.

[Rayla_Felana]

Let's be honest here:

 

While there are obviously homosexuals who want same-gender romances in the game, 90% of the people asking for it are men playing as female bounty hunters that want in to Mako's pants.

 

Would love to see your evidence for that, as a matter of fact, I have been on these forums and in the debate about SGRAs for a very long time, the difference in pro-SGRA posts that are from 'I want F/F but no M/M, cus Vettez totally hotz' type of men and posts from actual LGBT Gamers is actually the complete opposite of what you just stated.

[RayceUlrand]

You have obviously failed to understand a massive part of a heroes journey is their loyal companion/partner what would the Star Wars saga be without Padme? just a random guy who went ******* for no reason, put in Padme, then you have an actual reason instead of being dumb **** insane.

 

Maybe some people don't care for crafting, or raids or PvP, maybe they came here for the storyline that they see in all other BioWare games, part of that story is the option to have a romance with a companion, it's a corner stone of Bioware storytelling, one of the main plot points to Revan's story was his relationship to Bastila Shan.

 

Some people quit for this, some people quit for other things, just because they don't matter to YOU, doesn't mean they should be so small and miniscule to everyone else, grow up.

 

I'm going to respectfully disagree from this point due to your unneeded hostility, and without it, are unable to generate points to make a discussion on the necessity of homosexual relations in a video game valid. At the end of the day, its my opinion that if you quit over a lack of a feature they said they'd add later, then you should just go ahead and do that.

 

The irony of that last statement you made is highly amusing. So I'll say this. Just because I'm not leaving a game for this sole reason, or proclaiming Bioware as the devil for not having this in launch, doesn't mean your concerns are any better than anyone else's when there are game breaking issues to take care of. Because they matter to YOU, doesn't mean it should be so HUGE and MONSTROUS a concern for everyone else as well. Wise up. Hilarious as your rage is because I'm on the side of people wanting this as well, its growing tedious. You missed the entire point of my previous posts. I am baffled people are leaving because this isn't here -yet- and therefore the entire MMO is RUINED apparently, not baffled because people WANT this included.

 

Of course you immediately grew defensive since I wasn't going to become a drone.

 

I'll let you get the last word, because like every angry individual on the internet, you'll need it to feel justified.

Edited February 7, 2012 by RayceUlrand

[Uluain]

This is not a dating simulator, play the game until you get to romance someone that's your same sex.

 

Or, you know, leave over it if that's your idea of taking a stand. I wish I had the mentality that would let me think it wasn't silly to leave a game based on one thing that does not define the MMO entirely. ..but I can't, because this MMO has a LOT more to offer than merely getting a companion in bed.

It does. I want to like this game. I do. There is a lot I do enjoy. Which is why it is so hard to play as it stands - because the omission is not just from companion romance. It's all through the game.

 

You cannot play a male Smuggler's story missions without seeing many, many opportunities to [Flirt] with the opposite gender.

 

No, the romance is not the meat and potatos of the game, but it is stressed repeatedly as important to the story to the point that I am not able to avoid it without instead choosing to lower in-game stats that effect how efficient my companion is at his assignments.

 

You literally cannot choose not to flirt without losing affection with Corso for that. The game not only encourages opposite-gender flirting, it actually penalizes avoiding it.

 

Romantic content is in the game. BioWare had a chance to think about how it wanted to address same-sex content, and did think about it. They decided to omit it, and to commit to its inclusion only at some undetermined point post-launch - so far as the virtually invisible companion character romance feature is concerned.

 

That is not in any way, shape or form a policy of inclusiveness nor of committing to diversity. It is a callous and calculated dis-inclusion softened by a vague promise of some minor concession at some infinitely-postponable time.

 

I don't know how BioWare convinced itself it was taking a bold, progressive stance on this one. It might have been bold and progressive in 1992... but in this day and age it is down-right insulting.

 

I get that a lot of people don't care, and are eager to try to present a sound argument that it's not worth caring about so that they don't need to feel that they are being callous and inconsiderate as well.

 

But if you look at what is in the game now, in terms of how prevalent romantic or suggestive content is already here, then I don't see how you can say it is an insignificant part of the game. If it were insignificant, they would not have put as much work into it as they did. Ergo, it was an important factor in their overall design.

 

And they thought about same-gender content, and dismissed it. They offered a toke of inclusion, then deferred it indefinitely. And then they stopped even talking about it.

 

Yeah - this matters to me. I want to play my g*d damned Smuggler without having to be reminded every time I interact with a female NPC that BioWare loaded him up with opportunities to be mackin' on the ladies... while dismissing out of hand any thought of any opportunity to swing from his own side of the tree.

 

If you don't care, fine, don't. Go play the game. Have fun posting your next "score" in /General for the enjoyment of your friends. But don't come in here and tell me that I don't have anything to be pissed off over. You have no idea.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Uluain

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm going to respectfully disagree from this point due to your unneeded hostility, and without it, are unable to generate points to make a discussion on the necessity of homosexual relations in a video game valid. At the end of the day, its my opinion that if you quit over a lack of a feature they said they'd add later, then you should just go ahead and do that.

 

The irony of that last statement you made is highly amusing. So I'll say this. Just because I'm not leaving a game for this sole reason, or proclaiming Bioware as the devil for not having this in launch, doesn't mean your concerns are any better than anyone else's when there are game breaking issues to take care of. Because they matter to YOU, doesn't mean it should be so HUGE and MONSTROUS a concern for everyone else as well. Wise up. Hilarious as your rage is because I'm on the side of people wanting this as well, its growing tedious. You missed the entire point of my previous posts. I am baffled people are leaving because this isn't here -yet- and therefore the entire MMO is RUINED apparently, not baffled because people WANT this included.

 

Of course you immediately grew defensive since I wasn't going to become a drone.

 

I'll let you get the last word, because like every angry individual on the internet, you'll need it to feel justified.

 

You obviously didn't read ANYTHING I just stated, unsurprising.

 

I am not claiming our issues are any more important than anyone elses, neither are they inferior.

 

When you have played through almost all the class quests, and have nothing left to do, you don't sit there and wait for SGRAs, you quit and wait, instead of paying for a product you have already finished, this may seem 'silly' to you, but to us, this is clearly not the issue, wise up and realise maybe people really like companions, the exact point of them, they enhance the story for some people, maybe not you, maybe not someone else, but for us it does, we feel left out of that feature, and don't feel like we are getting the product we payed for, the reasons we play this game is for story, Liara T'soni was a massive fan favourite, hence why they literally released a DLC all about her for ME2, a lot of people enjoyed her, so did i.

 

Once you understand the idea that other people like other things, get back to me, instead of claiming people are part of some low, silly community that obviously you view as idiots simply because we quit over something you don't care for.

 

Read your original post and just WONDER WHY i was offended by it, go on, although i won;t hold my breath as you clearly haven't figured it out yet.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[RayceUlrand]

Proven right, thanks.

 

You cannot play a male Smuggler's story missions without seeing many, many opportunities to [Flirt] with the opposite gender. No, the romance is not the meat and potatos of the game, but it is stressed repeatedly as important to the story to the point that I am not able to avoid it without instead choosing to lower in-game stats that effect how efficient my companion is at his assignments. You cannot choose not to flirt and not lose affection with Corso from that. The game not only encourages opposite-gender flirting, it actually penalizes avoiding it.

 

Romantic content is in the game. BioWare had a chance to think about how it wanted to address same-sex content, and did think about it. They decided to omit it, and to commit to its inclusion only at some undetermined point post-launch - so far as the virtually invisible companion character romance feature is concerned.

 

That is not in any way, shape or form a policy of inclusiveness nor of committing to diversity. It is a callous and calculated dis-inclusion softened by a vague promise of some minor concession at some infinitely-postponable time.

 

I don't know how BioWare convinced itself it was taking a bold, progressive stance on this one. It might have been bold and progressive in 1992... but in this day and age it is down-right insulting.

 

I get that a lot of people don't care, and are eager to try to present a sound argument that it's not worth caring about so that they don't need to feel that they are being callous and inconsiderate as well.

 

But if you look at what is in the game now, in terms of how prevalent romantic or suggestive content is already here, then I don't see how you can say it is an insignificant part of the game. If it were insignificant, they would not have put as much work into it as they did. Ergo, it was an important factor in their overall design.

 

And they thought about same-gender content, and dismissed it. They offered a toke of inclusion, then deferred it indefinitely. And then they stopped even talking about it.

 

Yeah - this matters to me. I want to play my g*d damned Smuggler without having to be reminded every time I interact with a female NPC that BioWare loaded him up with opportunities to be mackin' on the ladies... while dismissing out of hand any thought of any opportunity to swing from his own side of the tree.

 

If you don't care, fine, don't. Go play the game. Have fun posting your next "score" in /General for the enjoyment of your friends. But don't come in here and tell me that I don't have anything to be pissed off over. You have no idea.

 

+1, well put.

[Tenebram]

Arent people allowed to do what they want? Just because someone does one thing you dont agree with doesnt mean you should call the childish or whinny, the thread was perfectly fine before all this and if you actually read the posts the thread is just as much (if not more so) about the need for more information as asking for it to be put in now

[Rayla_Felana]

Proven right, thanks.

 

Bah, just because I offended you right back doesn't make my argument any less valid, you insulted us, I insulted you, get it? good.

 

Don't shout idiocies and not expect to be called out on it, two way street boy.

[liquidekkah]

Would love to see your evidence for that, as a matter of fact, I have been on these forums and in the debate about SGRAs for a very long time, the difference in pro-SGRA posts that are from 'I want F/F but no M/M, cus Vettez totally hotz' type of men and posts from actual LGBT Gamers is actually the complete opposite of what you just stated.

 

And yet someone saying "I want F/F and I'm ambivalent towards M/M" is so easily rewritten as "I want same-gender relationships, Bioware is offensive and mean."

 

But if this forum has taught me anything, it's that people nowadays get their rocks off by being offended, and that Bioware has it out for everyone.

[Rayla_Felana]

And yet someone saying "I want F/F and I'm ambivalent towards M/M" is so easily rewritten as "I want same-gender relationships, Bioware is offensive and mean."

 

Now that my friend, is an assumption.

[RayceUlrand]

Arent people allowed to do what they want? Just because someone does one thing you dont agree with doesnt mean you should call the childish or whinny, the thread was perfectly fine before all this and if you actually read the posts the thread is just as much (if not more so) about the need for more information as asking for it to be put in now

 

That's fine.

 

Only takes one post with someone threatening to quit to make -everyone- look as bad as they do though. I'm fine with same-sex relationships, just don't be a complete ***** about getting it.

 

I still don't see how this affects gameplay and enjoyment but if you need to see two men and women flirt, then hey, you spent money each month for that moment of satisfaction.

[Qishari]

Hello all,

 

This thread is starting to become a bit heated and a bit off-topic. We know this is a volatile issue so it is extra important that you stay on topic-constructive, and respectful toward one another while discussing same sex romances.

 

Since it has already been stated that they will be included, please keep the discussion on the topic of how you would like to see them implemented/when/in what capacity/etc.

 

Thank you for your efforts in keeping this discussion constructive!

 

Edited February 7, 2012 by Qishari

[Nozybidaj]

Come on, who can be so naive to think that "Due to the abudant dialogs and blablabla" could keep them including a same sex romance? Where're talking about what, 10/20 dialogs AT BEST for any romanceable companion to add? So what, AT BEST an hour more work for the voice lenders?

 

Come on, they're kidding.

 

The real deal is it that the DO NOT WANT to add the same sex romance, or don't want to, and they're napping the all thing saying "we'll give you them.. in time." *giggles*

 

Reason? A lot and open to infinite speculations, but the reality is just that.

 

Sign in, more rakghouls for all people! <3

 

Agreed, the often stated quote from BW implying they simply didn't have time/resources to include same gender romances is obviously bogus. The content is already in the game, it is right there available for use. They made the decision not to allow that content to be seen by same gender PC characters.

 

In fact it probably took more time and resources to put in a system to prevent same gender romances than it would have taken to just simply implement the content for everyone.

[Nozybidaj]

Again I'd implore folks to simply ignore posters who come into the thread simply to troll and provoke reactions from people. Just don't reply, flag it, and let the mods decide if they want to clean it up or not.

[Suaine]

Since it has already been stated that they will be included, please keep the discussion on the topic of how you would like to see them implemented/when/in what capacity/etc.

 

First of all, thanks to the mods for all the hard work in keeping this topic open and constructive. I know you've got a lot on your hands and it's appreciated.

 

Now, since you ask for specifics.

 

What I would really like is to have as many options as possible, not just for same-gender romance, but opposite gender romance as well. I would give you the shirt off my back if at least the romanceable companions that are also introductory companions could be opened up for both genders. They are with us the longest and can really affect us long before we ever meet anyone else. I've experienced this growing attachment twice now and knowing that they are available, but not for my character, that's playing with heartbreak as a default setting. There are some companions I feel are perfectly suited to become romanceable companions but aren't, like Zenith (the only temptation my female consular ever had and then he isn't even interested? so sad).

 

So, since we're making a wish-list, I would really love for SGR to be implemented for existing companions, the more the merrier. While I think some could and should be integrated right into the leveling experience, I would also not be averse to additional quests for existing companions that further a more platonic relationship into a romance at lvl 50.

 

I do appreciate that new companions will be added and that those may also have SGR as soon as they are implemented. Additional choice is never a bad thing. However, if I can make one wish, it would be that these do not remain the only implementation of SGR and that, perhaps, a gay/bi Smuggler may get his farmboy and a chance to flirt outrageously with women as well as men they meet in their travels.

 

As for when - is it too childish to stomp my little feet and wail "Now! Please! Now!"? Because that's kind of what I feel like. Obviously, that's a little hopeful, but in all seriousness, while I want more guild features and customization options for my ship, the romances are my main priority as they directly affect how much enjoyment I can get out of my character. I would hope for current companions and NPC flirt options to be available as soon as the March update, really, and new companions and quests in the summer.

[Uluain]

I would hope for current companions and NPC flirt options to be available as soon as the March update, really, and new companions and quests in the summer.

More than hope, I do not feel it is unreasonable to expect same-gender romantic content - whether full romantic story arcs with companion characters or the far more visible and prevalent occurrence of NPC [Flirt] prompts - in the March content patch if BioWare is sincere in its stated intention to include same-gender content and to support a diverse and tolerant community.

 

Should such content not be forthcoming at that time, then it would behoove BioWare to address the matter and express its intentions more clearly as well as to bring us up to date on where development stands on this content at present as well as a prospective timeline informing us when we can reasonably expect to see this content in game.

 

If some response to this issue is not made in the Q&A developer thread on Feb. 10 - or if it is answered with the much-repeated and increasingly threadbare comment from Stephen Reid last September - I will be writing to those responsible for representing the companies involved - EA, BioWare and LucasArts - with my concerns. I'll repost all the relevant addresses at that time, although they are already posted earlier in this thread.

[gekko_s]

I think it should be possible to see that when the game includes romance for others but does not offer same gender options, then that lack of option becomes more than just a missing tiny aspect of the game for those affected. It gives a feeling of being excluded.

 

I've played WoW and lots of other games where romance was not an issue at all. Then there's no problem. I enjoy the game on the same terms as everyone else, but when there's game content like this that's there, but not for me, then the whole thing feels so off that it ruins the rest of the game experience.

 

Also, not to mention that the romance and relationships in Bioware games is a twist that gives the games that little bit extra. I want to experience the game the best way it can possibly be experienced. The experience is never as good the second time around. Because they've said it's coming, I want to hold off playing until the feature is there, to get the full experience.

Edited February 8, 2012 by gekko_s

[Dianoia]

More than hope, I do not feel it is unreasonable to expect same-gender romantic content - whether full romantic story arcs with companion characters or the far more visible and prevalent occurrence of NPC [Flirt] prompts - in the March content patch if BioWare is sincere in its stated intention to include same-gender content and to support a diverse and tolerant community.

 

Should such content not be forthcoming at that time, then it would behoove BioWare to address the matter and express its intentions more clearly as well as to bring us up to date on where development stands on this content at present as well as a prospective timeline informing us when we can reasonably expect to see this content in game.

 

If some response to this issue is not made in the Q&A developer thread on Feb. 10 - or if it is answered with the much-repeated and increasingly threadbare comment from Stephen Reid last September - I will be writing to those responsible for representing the companies involved - EA, BioWare and LucasArts - with my concerns. I'll repost all the relevant addresses at that time, although they are already posted earlier in this thread.

 

I don't know, that doesn't seem like a lot of time for something that could require big overhauls.

 

If Bioware just said, "we'll be adding this in when we release more companions, for sure" I'd be happy.

[Faarsider]

I think it should be possible to see that when the game includes romance for others but does not offer same gender options, then that lack of option becomes more than just a missing tiny aspect of the game for those affected. It gives a feeling of being excluded.

 

 

This is the pertinent point providing content for one group and not another is Exclusion

[Nozybidaj]

I don't know, that doesn't seem like a lot of time for something that could require big overhauls.

 

If Bioware just said, "we'll be adding this in when we release more companions, for sure" I'd be happy.

 

Overhaul what exactly? At the most they would need to change the dialog for any lines that contain gender specific pronouns, which they probably already have VO recorded for. Everything else is already in place in the game.

 

And if they are only going to do it through new companions you are going to be waiting a long long time. First expansion at the earliest, so a year or more from now? Maybe not even then, maybe 2 or 3 expansions into the future before they add new companions? You really want to wait that long for something that should have been part of the game at launch?

[Kioma]

Hello all,

 

This thread is starting to become a bit heated and a bit off-topic. We know this is a volatile issue so it is extra important that you stay on topic-constructive, and respectful toward one another while discussing same sex romances.

 

Since it has already been stated that they will be included, please keep the discussion on the topic of how you would like to see them implemented/when/in what capacity/etc.

 

Thank you for your efforts in keeping this discussion constructive!

 

 

Qishari,

 

Thank you for this calm response. It's a fair point to expect people to remain both on topic and respectful. Thank you also for giving us a human answer rather than copying and pasting the official response.

 

In regards to the how/when/what, if the developers and writers read over this thread they'll already find an absolute gold mine of options, ideas and opinions regarding this matter. We've quite firmly and, I believe, thoroughly explored the ways in which we'd like this feature implemented.

 

What we aren't receiving, though, is any feedback of any kind in respects to the ideas we're laying out. Frankly it feels like we're shouting into the wind, here. We don't know if we're being heard; we can only assume. Whilst I think it's safe to say that many of us do assume we are being heard, we still need confirmation of that from someone authorised to comment on the matter.

 

There are many people in favour of these features. There are many people in opposition. There are even many people who simply don't care one way or the other about it. The matter still has a great deal of uncertainty surrounding it, and the longer Bioware remains silent on the matter the greater those concerns become.

 

Please, it will benefit everyone greatly if someone from the correct Bioware team can at least confirm for us that we're being heard, that we're not just hoping with no reason, and that the naysayers (such as the FRC) are not going to make the developers back down on the inclusion of this content.

 

I understand that you yourself probably don't have authority to comment on this, but if you could pass our concerns along that would be most appreciated.

[Ayslinn_Iduviel]

Just look at what any modders (and i mean it, not any so-called modder) can do in other game (BW included), with 1/1000 of BW potential: they've added all sort of content (included VOICED content, cut and copy too) in products like DA, DA2, even ME that's not very mod friendly.

 

So there's no overhaul needed, no "timewaste", no real challenge: just the will to do it.

 

My wish is simple: stop stalling and give us a full enjoiable experience like all civilized games are allowing in this years; same sex romance shouldn't be a point of concerned discussion at all, it's just common customs.