Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Uluain]

I don't know, that doesn't seem like a lot of time for something that could require big overhauls.

 

If Bioware just said, "we'll be adding this in when we release more companions, for sure" I'd be happy.

If, in fact, there is a genuine commitment to this content, and not simply a bid to win "diversity points" without actually doing anything to merit them, then something of this kind really ought to already be somewhere in the development stages.

 

It is wholly possible that it's nowhere near ready for release, of course. But they clearly have been continuing to develop new content, some ready for the March patch.

 

One does want the new content to be of high quality, of course. But if the intent is to be - and not merely to claim to be - inclusive, then the longer the delay, the more of an afterthought the inclusion will seem.

 

Honestly, BioWare's compromise on this content was a bad decision. They have few graceful ways past that. Open and honest communication on their part, sooner rather than later, would be a good place to start.

 

They could do that tomorrow. They could have done it two weeks ago. They haven't.

[lexiekaboom]

Just for the record, the "small" amount of players this effects is not all that small.

 

When asked if they are gay, about 5% of people in the US say yes on surveys.

 

When the question changes to "have you ever had a same sex relationship" it bumps up to about 10%

 

In countries with less stigma, like Denmark (just a random example) the number that self-report as gay is as high as 12%.

 

Then there are people like me, straight, but offended by the lack of gay content (the same way I would be offended if Starwars would not allow you to have relationships with crew members who are black.). That's harder to pin down, but I would say that has to be around 20% (just a personal guess, unlike the other 3 which are based off fact)

 

Last, but not least, 99% of males would LOVE to see their hot female toons get it on with Nadia or Kera.

 

So hurry the heak up Bioware!

Edited February 8, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[Vodalus]

*Edit: Post replied to was removed. This post edited as such.*

 

Some facts about the game that relate to the topic:

 

-Companion romance is all single-player content. The dialog cannot even be initiated in a public place, regardless of the fact that the cutscene isn't even visible to any others that might be around anyway. Only those who choose to see it will see it, no matter the orientation of the romance.

-This game is rated T for Teen, not E for everybody (not that preference matters here; romances are romances, violence is violence)

-This game includes slavery, murder, torture. Does the inclusion of these somehow indicate that these things are to be accepted? What a person does or does not find acceptable has nothing to do with the game content.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Vodalus

[Suaine]

 

Last, but not least, 99% of males would LOVE to see their hot female toons get it on with Nadia or Kera.

 

 

I'll add to that number a huge group of women who are into m/m romance. Not all, of course, as not all straight men are interested in lesbian love stories (that's a euphemism ), but a significant number. I would even suggest that between straight allies and LGBT players and these types of straight players, we're looking at a majority of the gaming population. Add to *that* those who don't care one way or the other and I believe those in opposition have the shorter end of the stick. Much, much shorter.

[Caelambulator]

I'll add to that number a huge group of women who are into m/m romance. Not all, of course, as not all straight men are interested in lesbian love stories (that's a euphemism ), but a significant number. I would even suggest that between straight allies and LGBT players and these types of straight players, we're looking at a majority of the gaming population. Add to *that* those who don't care one way or the other and I believe those in opposition have the shorter end of the stick. Much, much shorter.

 

In addition, this is a Role-Playing Game. It's all about having a character that may be little to nothing like your real-life self. Personally, when I play an MMO, I like to create toons from all species, from both genders, from both factions, etc. Normally I'll grow more attached to one or two of the characters, but I love and seek out the variety.

 

When the same sex option is opened up, I will have at least one character exploring each of the combinations m/f, f/m, f/f, m/m. I would bet there'll be many who do something similar. Since no other players see your romance choices, I would even bet that some of those saying they're opposed will be secretly romancing a same-sex companion. (Do space ships have closets?)

 

The whole point of RP is exploring other ways of living and being.

[EnufThree]

Hello all,

 

This thread is starting to become a bit heated and a bit off-topic. We know this is a volatile issue so it is extra important that you stay on topic-constructive, and respectful toward one another while discussing same sex romances.

 

Since it has already been stated that they will be included, please keep the discussion on the topic of how you would like to see them implemented/when/in what capacity/etc.

 

Thank you for your efforts in keeping this discussion constructive!

 

 

When? Soon, hopefully. You have people talking about unsubscribing... Isn't that enough to say "Oh dang."

[Suaine]

In addition, this is a Role-Playing Game. It's all about having a character that may be little to nothing like your real-life self. Personally, when I play an MMO, I like to create toons from all species, from both genders, from both factions, etc. Normally I'll grow more attached to one or two of the characters, but I love and seek out the variety.

 

When the same sex option is opened up, I will have at least one character exploring each of the combinations m/f, f/m, f/f, m/m. I would bet there'll be many who do something similar. Since no other players see your romance choices, I would even bet that some of those saying they're opposed will be secretly romancing a same-sex companion. (Do space ships have closets?)

 

The whole point of RP is exploring other ways of living and being.

 

Oh, no doubt about that. I love playing different angles! I want to try just about everything, though I'll probably refrain from playing a really dark side sith, because they get up to some pretty nasty stuff and I'm not sure my delicate sensibilites when it comes to cruelty and violence can handle it.

 

But generally, yeah, I think most role-players would try it or at least want others to have the option. There is a subset of gamers, I believe a fairly small subset, that is either feeling threatened or just plain uncharitable so they rage against what is in all fairness an option that should already be in the game, but they don't speak for the vast majority of gamers. They just like to think they do.

[kraidy]

Just look at what any modders (and i mean it, not any so-called modder) can do in other game (BW included), with 1/1000 of BW potential: they've added all sort of content (included VOICED content, cut and copy too) in products like DA, DA2, even ME that's not very mod friendly.

 

So there's no overhaul needed, no "timewaste", no real challenge: just the will to do it.

 

My wish is simple: stop stalling and give us a full enjoiable experience like all civilized games are allowing in this years; same sex romance shouldn't be a point of concerned discussion at all, it's just common customs.

Nah, we need more Rakghouls.

[celeis]

I would prefer 2a that being said. I can live without a timeline the only thing I want to know is if it will be possible with current companions. "When" isn't that important I can wait to level my JK IF is defiantly important. Yes they have said it would be in the game at some point but it was never said definitively if it was only going to be with new companions or if the current ones would be included, it dose seem implied that it would be with new companions but was never directly stated that SS wouldn't be added for current companions.

[MusedMoose]

I'll add to that number a huge group of women who are into m/m romance. Not all, of course, as not all straight men are interested in lesbian love stories (that's a euphemism ), but a significant number. I would even suggest that between straight allies and LGBT players and these types of straight players, we're looking at a majority of the gaming population. Add to *that* those who don't care one way or the other and I believe those in opposition have the shorter end of the stick. Much, much shorter.

In addition, this is a Role-Playing Game. It's all about having a character that may be little to nothing like your real-life self. Personally, when I play an MMO, I like to create toons from all species, from both genders, from both factions, etc. Normally I'll grow more attached to one or two of the characters, but I love and seek out the variety.

 

When the same sex option is opened up, I will have at least one character exploring each of the combinations m/f, f/m, f/f, m/m. I would bet there'll be many who do something similar. Since no other players see your romance choices, I would even bet that some of those saying they're opposed will be secretly romancing a same-sex companion. (Do space ships have closets?)

 

The whole point of RP is exploring other ways of living and being.

Very well said; kudos to both of you. I think these two things combined are a big part of why BioWare has been as good about having SGR options as they have. They might have dropped the ball on this one, but at least they're committed to picking up the ball again.

 

As a longtime roleplayer, I'm thrilled by the options that companions offer. I find myself roleplaying my character differently based on what the companions say and do, especially if it's a companion I plan to do the romance storyline with. I know that Kira's reactions changed how my JK acts and approaches things, which is a big part of why I'm hoping Kira becomes romanceable for female characters.

 

And who knows? When this gets implemented, hopefully some people will change their minds.

I would prefer 2a that being said. I can live without a timeline the only thing I want to know is if it will be possible with current companions. "When" isn't that important I can wait to level my JK IF is defiantly important. Yes they have said it would be in the game at some point but it was never said definitively if it was only going to be with new companions or if the current ones would be included, it dose seem implied that it would be with new companions but was never directly stated that SS wouldn't be added for current companions.

Very true; part of BW's posts about SGRs said - if I'm remembering right - that they couldn't guarantee any particular companion would be available for SGR. (If someone could find the relevant quote, I'd appreciate it, as I'm not at all certain I'm remembering it right.) But part of the discussion we've had has revolved around how it would be much, much easier for BW to add SGR to the current companions instead of making new ones. I'm pretty sure some of the lines in the romance-based missions would serve equally well, others might only need small changes. I'm guessing that only the initial lines would really need wholly new dialogue, but I'm too much of an altaholic to have actually gotten to a romance storyline yet.

Edited February 8, 2012 by MusedMoose

[Keilin]

I actually got my hopes up at the end of Balmora on my IA Sniper.

Well, the end of the Sniper story line there any way.

 

Just as you leave, if you mouse over the guy you were under cover with, you will/would see that you can talk to him one last time. It's on the virge of being flirtatious. And you actually ask him to go with you. He sais he wishes he could but can't, he has responsabilities. (paraphrased of course), But not only did I think for just a brief moment that I was actually going to get a second companion earlier than I thought, but a SS romance option.

 

I personally stear clear of all OS flirt conversations with him, and always will. I'll drop a quest line if I have to. Only because that's not how I think of this character, and how I want to play him.

 

I too am waiting almost impatiently for the SS romance options to finally go live.

 

How I'd want it implimented for my IA? I'd want to meet up with that NPC on another planet, have him say something to the effect that his responsibilities on Balmora are finished, and ask if I still want him to come along. And let the story unfold from there.

I think it would fit the story arch of a SS romance for IA quite well.

[Schwartzman]

Are they planning to implement this as a toggle option? So for players who do not want this feature can leave it turned off?

 

I think it is good they are adding it for the people who want it... I just...don't...

[Kioma]

Are they planning to implement this as a toggle option? So for players who do not want this feature can leave it turned off?

 

I think it is good they are adding it for the people who want it... I just...don't...

 

Read back in the thread. This suggestion has been made and thoroughly discussed already.

[MusedMoose]

Are they planning to implement this as a toggle option? So for players who do not want this feature can leave it turned off?

 

I think it is good they are adding it for the people who want it... I just...don't...

I doubt there will be a toggle. But I think it's a safe bet that, just like the current in-game relationships, if you don't want to be in one, the dialogue option for that will be very obvious. Just make sure to pick that one and you won't have to worry about it.

[stuffystuffs]

Let's be honest here:

 

While there are obviously homosexuals who want same-gender romances in the game, 90% of the people asking for it are men playing as female bounty hunters that want in to Mako's pants.

 

Even if that's true...what's your point?

 

Are you trying to justify not including it based on those grounds?

 

Why? Men playing female bounty hunters that want in to Mako's pants pay the same for the game as men playing male bounty hunters that want in Mako's pants.

 

The bottom line is that there is demand for this content from all kinds of people (straight, gay, bisexual, etc.)...I'm not sure why 'straight dudes wanting to get with Mako as a female' somehow makes this cause less worthy to you.

[gekko_s]

And to add to potential users for this. There are probably also some straight males who'll make some male (not just their female) alt toon gay/bi just to role play, for laughs or to check it out if the option is there. I know I'd probably try out the m/f romances with alts, but only after I've tried out m/m. This adds options and small things to explore for several audiences. Edited February 8, 2012 by gekko_s

[Uluain]

(Do space ships have closets?)

Well, I think we see Obi-Wan stow away in one on Padmé's starship when she takes off for Mustafar to find Anakin. How's that for subtext?

 

Are they planning to implement this as a toggle option? So for players who do not want this feature can leave it turned off?

 

I think it is good they are adding it for the people who want it... I just...don't...

Can you point out the toggle that turns off opposite-gender content for me? I am not finding it.

 

I don't think there needs to be a toggle. Just don't select options you don't choose to see. That is the safeguard already in play and I see no reason that is inadequate.

[Nozybidaj]

I don't think there needs to be a toggle. Just don't select options you don't choose to see. That is the safeguard already in play and I see no reason that is inadequate.

 

I "toggle off" all the existing flirts and romance content in the game today just fine. I see no reason this same method won't work in the future. /shrug

[BinxDarkstar]

Wait, how is this will force you to see it?

You choose your character to be "straight" which will remove any SG flirting from the dialogue options. If anything, this will prevent people who do not want to see it from seeing it.

If I understand correctly..

 

Anyway, I think the most interresting option is too just create new companions/NPCs that happen to be.. dare I say it.. gay. They will only be romanclabe for those who choose to be so.

IMO, it gives consistancy which is quite important in RPGs. It other BW games when you engage in SGRA with characters they seem to change backstories and become someone completely different. This annoyed the hell out of me.

 

Came across this and had to quote, cuz I thought the same thing. Realistically speaking, some characters are straight, some are gay. I loved the lesbian romance option with Juhani in KotOR, but I don't feel that having a lesbian romance option for Bastilla would have had the same weight. It makes more sense if some characters are straight, some are gay, some are bi, etc.

 

Just a personal opinion

[Uluain]

It makes more sense if some characters are straight, some are gay, some are bi, etc.

 

Just a personal opinion

It would be more realistic. It would also likely reduce same-gender romances to 2 or 3 companions per faction - which is pretty much the token nod toward inclusiveness that I am at this point expecting, if it ever happens at all. I also anticipate a far greater number of F/F options available than M/M.

 

Had BioWare been inclined to be inclusive from the outset, there may have been an opportunity for a greater variety. But does anyone honestly forsee 16 new companions, open to romance from their own gender, being added even in a lvl 50-60 expansion? I am finding it hard to have that kind of faith in BioWare's alleged commitment to this content.

[gekko_s]

It would be more realistic. It would also likely reduce same-gender romances to 2 or 3 companions per faction - which is pretty much the token nod toward inclusiveness that I am at this point expecting, if it ever happens at all. I also anticipate a far greater number of F/F options available than M/M.

 

Had BioWare been inclined to be inclusive from the outset, there may have been an opportunity for a greater variety. But does anyone honestly forsee 16 new companions, open to romance from their own gender, being added even in a lvl 50-60 expansion? I am finding it hard to have that kind of faith in BioWare's alleged commitment to this content.

 

Yeah, exactly. Realistically I have a hard time seeing there being much variety. I doubt they'll change the existing companions even if I was really hoping they would.

 

I stopped playing once I realised there was no same gender romance options, so I didn't really understand how the whole thing worked. I still don't. But apparently there are only 1-2 companions available for romance for each class, and they're not available for other classes, or am I wrong?

 

If that's the case, I can sort of see the reasoning behind going this route. It is harder or seems stranger to make all or a majority of companions bi and still with convincing strong individual personalities, even if I disagree and think it's not as hard for most characters as it may seem.

 

And then, if they'd decided a couple of the existing companions could've been bi, then they'd only be availble for that class. That would also be a strange position, I think.

 

So they'll probably add new companions that have wider class restrictions.

 

But if I'm right about this reasoning I hope they see that once all classes have at least one companion available for same gender romance, then it would no longer be awkward if some classes get extra bi-options for those old companions that it can easily be added to and/or are in high demand.

Edited February 8, 2012 by gekko_s

[JDTIII]

I would prob go with option 3.

 

that being said, 1 of the toons i have is a female trooper Jorgan is pretty much the only love option she has and he is pretty much a butt head till much later in the relationship so when the option came up to flirt i was not interested in the least. Now that he has become a much more likeable person the option no longer exists. We should be able to have more than one chance to start a relationship.

 

Even though Jorgan can be romanced a girl might not have any intrest in romancing a fairly ugly cat dude with a bad attitude and no one else in your group that is male is even remotely attractive. Why not give the ability to be able to romance npcs that are not even part of your group? You get the option to flirt with them but don't have the option to have it go anywhere.

[Uluain]

Even though Jorgan can be romanced a girl might not have any intrest in romancing a fairly ugly cat dude with a bad attitude and no one else in your group that is male is even remotely attractive. Why not give the ability to be able to romance npcs that are not even part of your group? You get the option to flirt with them but don't have the option to have it go anywhere.

This is a shortcoming of the companion romance feature of a whole, and why I advocate more variety among companions in general. It is possible that when the promised same-gender romance options are added, I will find I dislike the NPCs. I think I can accept that if I know the option at least has been made available.

 

I would prefer to see existing companions revisited, so that my Smuggler and Corso can finally have their Brokeback Spacestation moment.

[THorsblood]

Sorry to all you actual female gamer's out there, i'm part of the reason guys call you G.I.R.L.S lol. It is my tradition to play Males in 1st person and females in 3rd. I just don't want a guys butt in my face for X amount of hours...course even if it wasnt my tradtition Jennifer Hale is an AWESOME voice actor so there was no way i wasnt ganna roll a fem trooper. Its been said they would alow same sex relationships but my question, like most others is when? im starting to run out of quest to do while i wait since-

~ Trooper gets female NPC at lvl 17-22 on taris

~ Jedi Knight gets Kira at lvl 10-13 <3

~ Smuggler gets to at least talk to Risha at around 14-16

~ Counsular gets Nedi <3 <3 <3 at around 40ish

 

only reason i still have content is becouse my sage's is so far out Oo

i vote for letting our old compaions have SS...there just so cool:cool:

 

P.S. feel free to correct my spelling and grammer as my post will still be misspelled and higher up then your post:jawa_angel:

[Couac]

Because they matter to YOU, doesn't mean it should be so HUGE and MONSTROUS a concern for everyone else as well. Wise up. Hilarious as your rage is because I'm on the side of people wanting this as well, its growing tedious. You missed the entire point of my previous posts. I am baffled people are leaving because this isn't here -yet- and therefore the entire MMO is RUINED apparently, not baffled because people WANT this included.

 

Of course you immediately grew defensive since I wasn't going to become a drone.

 

Go read the header again, it says this thread is asking for clarifications and not that same mumble jumble we have been given thus far - it doesn't mean anything if they've said they're "planning" to do SGRAs, anyone can say anything without meaning it. People are leaving because they can't play the game the way they want unlike some others, and they pay just as much for the game as the rest.

 

Secondly, this concern isn't away from other game development aspects. Different departments do different things.

 

And no one could say from your posts that you're actually for SGRAs. In my books a large part of this MMO is RUINED, as I can't play my characters the way I want. For some people character development is as important or more important than gearing up, for example. If you couldn't have some gear that others can and feel left out because of that, would you be happy?

 

You expect everyone to think SGRAs would be a nice addition but nothing serious. I don't care much about PvP. Should I go troll PvP forums and say everything they want is "said to be coming at some vague point in the future, why do you still keep talking about this?"