Touchbass Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 For crying out loud, the link is the players crying until they get what they want. It is observable, It happened with plenty of extremely obvious staring you in the face evidence to anyone who isn't willfully ignoring it. Around and around you go dancing around it and deny some more. He's asking you to demonstrate it and you are trying to evade him with it's "common sense", that doesn't stand as a tenet of argument. Just because you believe it's rational does not mean it's rational. Provide evidence, Forrez is a very logical thinker, I'm sure he'd sway if you gave him the proper facts to back up your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) People that are anti-LFD have no real life friends and aren't social enough, so they want to force others to talk to them via an online game. OR They have all day to play with no real life of any sort, and just don't want to see casual gamers that log in for an hour or so succeed in forming FP runs. There I said it. Oh and then they call folks that want LFD lazy... why are we lazy? Because we want to log in for a little while then back out so we can continue living life? Doesn't sound very lazy to me. I dont know if you've had anytime to read my "mega response" on page 30 but it outlines a lot of the reasons that you've mentioned. Here is a quick recap! 1) MMORPG demographics has changed the playerbase from a crowd that plays 4-5+ hours a night, 3-6 times a a week playerbase to that plays at different paces from one another 2) The pre-LFD system favours the aforementioned people in point 1, the only reason a lot of them are complaining is that for a DPS, under the old system they had no competition for groups with people who didn't play much so they got groups together in 10-15 minutes. What they fail to realize was those groups were given to them at that speed by the majority of people too frustrated to play and gave up looking after 40+ minutes. Now that they have a level playing field they are calling foul and what to revert back to when they had dominance, you can't blame them really 3) Being lazy in a video game? Playing a video game is a lazy thing to do ... who taught people these people logic? Edited January 19, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I agree 100% that a dungeon finder is needed.. I find myself sitting in the imperial fleet for hours at a time spamming general chat with "need tank and healer for so and so flashpoint"... That doesn't benefit the server's community in any way whatsoever.. I can see saying if you have a set group in your guild or a group of friends that you run flashpoints with.. but if that's the case then don't use the tool.. but if you're buddies are not always online you'll find yourself spamming general chat looking for healers or tanks for another hour.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garravesh Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 putting together a bunch of players together with varying skills and tactics only leads to more rage. STO is chalk full of people raging against the lesser experienced people who use the dungeon finder tool STO uses. Guilds are superb for finding like minded and talented individuals to group up and do heroics. This is an MMO as well...make a few friends and be social...... That tool (dungeon finder) is evil......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 putting together a bunch of players together with varying skills and tactics only leads to more rage. STO is chalk full of people raging against the lesser experienced people who use the dungeon finder tool STO uses. Guilds are superb for finding like minded and talented individuals to group up and do heroics. This is an MMO as well...make a few friends and be social...... That tool (dungeon finder) is evil......... That is what a pug is.. What do you think you get when you spam lfg in general chat? Which is why i don't see the point in being against a dungeon finder.. Either way you get a group of random players... Unless you already have a set up group from your guild or friends.. and in that case you don't need to use the dungeon finder tool when they are online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That is what a pug is.. What do you think you get when you spam lfg in general chat? Which is why i don't see the point in being against a dungeon finder.. Either way you get a group of random players... Unless you already have a set up group from your guild or friends.. and in that case you don't need to use the dungeon finder tool when they are online. Yeah I noticed that too McFondles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rahlik Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It is not needed and I hope it's never implemented. Get a guild = do flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertine Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 god forbid you have to talk to people to get a group.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covalent Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It is not needed and I hope it's never implemented. Get a guild = do flashpoints. How does an LFD tool in any way prevent you from doing flashpoints with your guild mates? Or to put it another way: if you already do them with your guild mates how will LFD change your life in any way? Why exactly are you against it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covalent Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 god forbid you have to talk to people to get a group.... Oh yeah! That's been the problem all along guys! We just don't like to talk to each other, if we did, groups would be really easy to form on all servers! I mean it has nothing to do with there not being enough players hanging around in your fleet that are of appropiate role, level and interested in doing the flashpoint... nah that's just you not wanting to talk to them! Just have a conversation with the people who are not there, imagine them if you have to, and voila! you got yourself a shiny new group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehpanta Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 That is what a pug is.. What do you think you get when you spam lfg in general chat? Which is why i don't see the point in being against a dungeon finder.. Either way you get a group of random players... Unless you already have a set up group from your guild or friends.. and in that case you don't need to use the dungeon finder tool when they are online. That is exactly why the LFD tool is usefull. If you are in a guild and you do have the right people online at the same time with the will to go into the dungeon, you wont have to use it at all. Nobody presses anyone to use the tool, its not mandatory to use the tool. I personaly am a casual player (after several years of hardcore endgame wipe-raiding of WoW) and I havent been in a single flashpoint since I started to play the game itself. I do have several friends online I chat with, but not the right composition (no tank...obviously). And in all the sincerity, I don't find "standing on fleet and checking general chat, spamming LFG/LFM for hours" that much of an amusement. What strikes me in this thread are the flametrolls mixing "socializing" and "speaking to people" with "doing dungeons". I am a social person, who talks quite a lot and I sincerely don't have any problem with communication at all. Still I play this game more as a single player RPG than MMO, which is a shame really, because I like it a lot even as such. Without tools that would get me rid of hours of standing on the platform spamming general (seriously, I am not 18 anymore, with frackloads of time to waste...I come home tired from work and want to relax a bit and play...not stare into the display in silence), I will probably just level three or four characters to enjoy the class lines (which are absolutely awesome...at least sith sorcerer one is) and cancel subscription. On the other hand I wont press anyone into implementing anything. I dont personaly care if bioware finds it usefull to have that kind of tool or not. I am a satisfied customer either way. I paid for something that gave me loads of hours (7 days playtime so far) of fun and I am certainly not complaining. Single player style it is, I dont mind I just wanted to present my POV on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesferia Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I actually found the system very useful in wow. The dungeon finder is ok with me really. I remember back in vanilla when it could take 1 hour or more to find a group for a dungeon... Hateful, i don't want those days to come back. Besides, it is very useful for people who don't have friends 24/7 playing with them or the guilds that don't organise that sort of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangbot Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 With a LFD tool you DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT, completely optional. And with the LFD tool you can add them to your friends list. LFD tool does not stop people from talking. Finding a group in chat you still will group with loudmouths or know it alls or ninjas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poldinek Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkittles Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. Maybe I've been on these forums too much lately and the paranoia is kicking in, but it almost seems like the people who are against LFD really want SWTOR to fail. Like a concerted effort to make it less successful than WoW. Maybe because it's 4am and I need sleep after playing for hours straight (and hitting level 10 and wishing I could queue for Esseles immediately ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesferia Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. You might have your reasons against it, ok. But still it's easy, make a character in the said realm and go bm him how much you want to. Really a Dungeon Finder would benefit more than it would hurt. Seriously, you get to have ninjas, idiots and what not even with a normal group only that it would take much more to replace him, not to mention the building of a group. It takes so long sometimes that you're forced to go in 3 and have a companion. You seem to know only half of the story here, who cares if people insult each other? Are you really so weak to trolls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covalent Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. Now please explain in similar detail why a non-cross-server LFD tool would cause any of this to happen? Very few actually want cross-server LFD, so issues caused by that are not exactly even on topic since it is a different matter altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lularapio Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I really do hope they add a LFG feature for flashpoints VERY soon, I doubt anyone enjoys sitting around at the fleet waiting several hours doing nothing trying to form a group or to get into one. I have leveled my sith juggernaut dps specced, even though I know I perform well when it comes about dpsing and gearing up my character, it isn't good enough since I don't have any crowd control ability, turning my specialization very undesired. I started a bounty hunter dps a few weeks ago, he's at level 33 and I can say I managed to get into way more groups compared to my juggernaut that is already level 50. I do like dungeon crawling and I love to dps and thats what I do best since I started playing MMO's in 2004, I don't like being punished by enjoying to play dps in a so called MMO without a lfg tool. To all the haters, you are not forced at any point to use the LFG tool, you are free to form a group yourselves the way you want, but do not blame the tools to ruin games like people tend to do with LFR in wow. It's just a tool, after all, its people that tend to prove harmful to any sort of game community. That being said, I really hope they do add this feature VERY soon, considering this is the exact opposite of taking step backwards as people mentioned, if you don't want LFG tools for flash points, why not take warzone queues out as well and force people to form groups at the fleet to pvp? The lack of such feature considering how popular this sort of tool is in most games of this genre is game breaking for some people and you can have no doubt that will reflect on subscription losses. Don't really expect people will wait several months after leveling their desired characters just to see this feature implemented. It will be too late, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) putting together a bunch of players together with varying skills and tactics only leads to more rage. STO is chalk full of people raging against the lesser experienced people who use the dungeon finder tool STO uses. Guilds are superb for finding like minded and talented individuals to group up and do heroics. This is an MMO as well...make a few friends and be social...... That tool (dungeon finder) is evil......... Ding ding ding. These people will never understand this because when the problem presents itself they'll simply demand that Bioware force other players to play with them or suffer consequences. That's why even an updated LFG system with effective categorization and more room for information isn't enough. It's all about removing the choice aspect because many players realize they aren't the first choice. Well it's bullcrud. If you want people to play with you make nice and play effectively. People will actually start to ask you to do stuff rather than you having to seek out other people. Players that are more likeable and more effective actually SHOULD have an easier time finding a group than someone who is not. If you're in favor of an updated LFG tool that grants players greater freedom and doesn't force people into the Fleet then I concur. If you're saying that whatever tool is implemented must have matchmaking, I cannot help but be extremely skeptical. Edited January 19, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lularapio Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. The worst thing that happened to wow was to become a mainstream game that attracted all sorts of idiots. Don't blame the tool, blame the handler. Plus people aren't talking about a cross server tool, just a server tool. And you can rest assured SWTOR will implement it at some point, I just do hope they add it soon for the sake of this game health, or its poppulation might start getting lower and lower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I really think they need to improve this system, WoW tried it for awhile and had to scratch it cause it didn't work. The automated part just makes the system work when it's at low capacity. Ok, here's an idea that could work for the both us. What about whenever you sign up for the server lfg you have to list a role and as soon as you and another player join in the LFG through a manual invite it prompts you to "complete a group" by finding the next two available players by who signed up first on the manual list who aren't /afk in the game. The problem as I see it with an automated system is as some aptly pointed out is that people tend to act a little more idiotic than usual when they're just another no-name in the group. We're already seeing a little of it where people would roll on stuff and their character doesn't need it. With a system that you select the members or party to join if you partied with someone that acted like an idiot/rude/loot-ninja or whatever you can not invite them or join their party. Now their actions have consequences. Then there's the social/community aspect. I partied with this dps and the guy was on point. Took agro and took the hits instead of letting the healer do it because the tank for whatever reason didn't. This healer was spot on in an "oh crap" moment or the tank knew the flashpoint and was leading the run like a pro. I'd want to run with them again if I need someone to fill that roll and I see em LFG. This guy placed a great proposal in his thread Group Mission Queue (Dungeon Finder) Pane Concept and it looks good. It acts like the current system but more of a gui interface with drop downs or check boxes to select what you want to find a group for or view what groups or players are available for group content be it heroic quests, flashpoints or operations. I like adding people who preform well on my friends list and form an in game professional friendship with them. With a fully automated cross server (as some would like) system you can't do that. At this point in time a cross server system is definitely not needed. Maybe later on who knows but right now you have enough players lvling and about for it not to be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerr Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 No thanks. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Maybe I've been on these forums too much lately and the paranoia is kicking in, but it almost seems like the people who are against LFD really want SWTOR to fail. Like a concerted effort to make it less successful than WoW. Maybe because it's 4am and I need sleep after playing for hours straight (and hitting level 10 and wishing I could queue for Esseles immediately ). Afternoon Blue, how ya doing? Yeah, it seems that way. Due to my odd hours of play this past week I've stopped running flash points cause no one is around. I can't imagine anyone sitting around the fleet at this hours looking for a leveling instance cause no one is available on a pratical basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 LFG tool was what destroyed whole community in wow. It is what destroyed completely lower populated servers. People who you meet in LFG these days cant say simple hello to you in most cases and drama a rudeness rules wow these days just because you will never see the other person aways so you tell him what a *********** **** ***** he is without any repercussions. It is the worst thing that happened to wow during its history. Not mentioning how many troubles it brought to dungeons design. From its dfficulty to content and class skills, they had to rebalance everything so dungeons could work in synergy with LFG tool. Anyone who made Shattered Halls hc back in day or Shadow Labyrint hc can say what a joke are todays dungeons in WoW. With no coordination (I see these people for the first time in my live and I do not need to speak to them) with no actualy need to finish dungeon (Frak these noobs I am ultra tank with 2 min que Frak them and go to another dung whatever) wow dungeons became cesspitt of meaningless grind and bad behaviour. You should be glad there is no LFG at all in SWTOR. At least I am. I wish what you said is true, but it certainly isn't. The MMORPG genre is changing and moving forward, no longer is it acceptable to screw over a chunk of your playerbase. If you read my mega post on page 30 it can inform you a lot of why people disagree with your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I like adding people who preform well on my friends list and form an in game professional friendship with them. With a fully automated cross server (as some would like) system you can't do that. At this point in time a cross server system is definitely not needed. Maybe later on who knows but right now you have enough players lvling and about for it not to be needed. Darth, I don't understand how you cannot form relationships with people if the LFD feature is introduced. Simply stand in fleet (as we do now) or any appropriate zone with a lot of traffic and /ask for members. The LFD tool is not meant for you, it's meant for access, which is a huge difference. Do what me and others did in WoW, get either a tank or heals which are core components of a group and ask in /trade, it'll fill quickly. As it stands right now it's not needed atm, but it will be soon. Once the inertia of leveling wears it's going to be required as new players are going to be turned off from not being able to access lower level dungeons at all. On my other alt it's a freaking pain trying to find a group, i've given up. I could go on but you know my stance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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