Bioware, Marauders need help in PVP

[mufutiz]

Just because a class is hard to play, it doesnt mean its underpowered.

 

It is though. This is such a stupid argument. Games are never balanced around the most exceptional players of a certain class. (see wow arena - mages/rogues)

 

Class A and class B.

 

Bad players of both classes will not get much done.

 

OK-ish player of class A will see acceptable result.

OK-ish player of class B will see below average result.

 

Good player of class A will see great results.

Good player of class B will see acceptable results.

 

Exceptional player of both classes will dominate.

 

 

This is exactly what imbalance means. If you can't see a problem with that you are biased.

 

Player skill can always compensate but if it is a much higher requirement for a class and not for others, that's when we have an imbalance. underpowered/overpowered must always be relative to the average performance of a class because this is the reality of the game experience for the vast majority of people.

 

 

Most people saying "Marauders are just a little harder to control than other classes, l2p" would not be able to compete on the same level they are competing on their powertechs or mercs or honestly, whatever other class they play, when playing a marauder, it's as simple as that. You can't deny that would not sit right with you because in all honesty - only a minuscule amount of people on these forums is as skill-capped as they think they are, most of them(as in 99%) are limited by what the classes they play allow them at the level of playerskill they possess ;-)

(and I will be the first one to admit that this includes me)

Edited February 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[belthazaar]

You've apparently never played a healer.

 

1) We only have 1 or 2 casted heals. If you interrupt our main one it means we're left with our lesser heal or one that's on a cd(or if you're an operative you're left with only instants).

 

2) Interrupts aren't the only way to keep a healer from casting. Your charge is an interrupt. Your interrupt is an interrupt. Your aoe stun stops us from healing. Every knockback in the game stops healing. Pulls stop healing. Need I go on?

 

If interrupts stopped the whole school from being cast(like in WoW) healers would be too easy to control. As it is now we aren't hard to control if you're a skilled melee/tank.

 

Mara/sents dont have any sort of push/pull ability, our interupts are about all we have to go on against healers. Lets run through thsi real quick.

 

Healers just about all have a defensive sheild that negates around 3k dmg.

Healers also have at least one stun and one knockback ability and pretty sure a slow/root.

 

Marauders/sentinals deal a lot of dmg wich is great. Healer pops sheild and continues casting away all the dmg we dish out. We interupt and use our 20% healing debuff. Get knocked back and CCd to all hell. By the time force charge is up again most likely one or more of your cc abilities/sheild/ or you even healed up. So tell me how we are good at killing healers?

 

Mind you force charge has a 12 second cd 9 seconds if speccd.

[Rakimou]

Maras/sents need help in a sense that they should be easier to play. Having a million of abilities (and you have to use ALL of them) and a bunch of 10-20s cooldowns is not the best way to design a pure melee dps class.

Maybe we need a little something to combat CC or we need a knockback for ourselves. But it's not a huge deal.

Sadly, nothing is gonna change. The class is what it is. I just hope BioWare doesn't **** it up any further.

[belthazaar]

It is though. This is such a stupid argument. Games are never balanced around the most exceptional players of a certain class. (see wow arena - mages/rogues)

 

Class A and class B.

 

Bad players of both classes will not get much done.

 

OK-ish player of class A will see acceptable result.

OK-ish player of class B will see below average result.

 

Good player of class A will see great results.

Good player of class B will see acceptable results.

 

Exceptional player of both classes will dominate.

 

 

This is exactly what imbalance means. If you can't see a problem with that you are biased.

 

Player skill can always compensate but if it is a much higher requirement for a class and not for others, that's when we have an imbalance. underpowered/overpowered must always be relative to the average performance of a class because this is the reality of the game experience for the vast majority of people.

 

 

Most people saying "Marauders are just a little harder to control than other classes, l2p" would not be able to compete on the same level they are competing on their powertechs or mercs or honestly, whatever other class they play, when playing a marauder, it's as simple as that. You can't deny that would not sit right with you because in all honesty - only a minuscule amount of people on these forums is as skill-capped as they think they are, most of them(as in 99%) are limited by what the classes they play allow them at the level of playerskill they possess ;-)

(and I will be the first one to admit that this includes me)

 

I agree with you. I have a lvl 50 marauder main and Im currently lvl 56 valor and its been one hell of a grind. After about a month of grinding my teeth in doing wzs on my Marauder I decided i wanted to try another class. So I made a sorc and a merc(I know these classes are pretty op, but didnt fully realize it when I made them) and when I hit lvl 10 I began queing WZs and dear god did I feel like any braindead idot could play those classes.

 

My point being that the fact that I fealt like the PvP game became 100x easier switching from playing my marauder and another class is a good sign.

[mufutiz]

 

The ranged in this game are EASIER then VANILLA ranged classes from WoW. That is your problem. Melee are fine. If ranged were at least as challenging as a frost mage (which isn't even hard) then you wouldn't see peopel complaining that melee are too hard.

 

If they make sentinel/marauder faceroll? I will leave this game and never come back. It is the only class that is fun or challenging to me.

 

I absolutely agree with you. While I am only playing my sentinel as an alt (for now...) I would hate to see the class dumbed down.

 

Maras/sents need help in a sense that they should be easier to play. Having a million of abilities (and you have to use ALL of them) and a bunch of 10-20s cooldowns is not the best way to design a pure melee dps class.

Maybe we need a little something to combat CC or we need a knockback for ourselves. But it's not a huge deal.

Sadly, nothing is gonna change. The class is what it is. I just hope BioWare doesn't **** it up any further.

 

that would be wrong. Many players, me included absolutely love the playstyle and complexity of the class.

 

It's just aggravating to see all the backpedal faceroll action from some other classes...it just doesn't feel right at all.

 

Those classes need adjustments, especially some of the really forgiving range dps specs...not only for achieving greater overall balance but because it would make them more fun (except for the people who enjoy the faceroll)

Edited February 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[rzrknight]

LOL , you come in here to tell BW to make one of the OP classes even more OP?

 

Sr mate but rly , ya need to check what you are doing wrong there.

[Reichmar]

Bioware, I trust you are running your metrics and using them to gauge performance rather than listening to cries for nerfs and buffs.

 

My guild has a marauder, Bas on Fatman, who destroys people. Pain and simple. He is carnage and tells us all the exact opposite of what the general consensus is here. He only uses a handful of abilities to kill people -- and he does so efficiently.

 

I am not claiming to be a Marauder expert, nor do I claim that the class is perfectly fine, but are people even trying out every build? Can people accept that not every build is viable in every situation? If this becomes a trend, I will start to worry about this game's future....

[mufutiz]

LOL , you come in here to tell BW to make one of the OP classes even more OP?

 

Sr mate but rly , ya need to check what you are doing wrong there.

 

awwwwww....show us on the doll where the bad mara touched you.

 

poor girl.

[Jooji]

Mara/sents dont have any sort of push/pull ability, our interupts are about all we have to go on against healers. Lets run through thsi real quick.

 

Healers just about all have a defensive sheild that negates around 3k dmg.

Healers also have at least one stun and one knockback ability and pretty sure a slow/root.

 

Marauders/sentinals deal a lot of dmg wich is great. Healer pops sheild and continues casting away all the dmg we dish out. We interupt and use our 20% healing debuff. Get knocked back and CCd to all hell. By the time force charge is up again most likely one or more of your cc abilities/sheild/ or you even healed up. So tell me how we are good at killing healers?

 

Mind you force charge has a 12 second cd 9 seconds if speccd.

 

You clearly don't understand healers. If you knew which abilities each had it would be easier for you to kill them.

 

1) Not all healers have a slow

2) Not all healers have a knockback

3) I'm not sure what you're referring to by a "shield" but each healer has different survival skills

 

Let's take trooper, my class, for example. If I pop reactive shield(can't miss it, giant red shield) you need to get off me asap. I'm basically immortal for those 15 seconds. Once it's done get back on me. My knockback is on a longer CD than your charge. I have no slow. Marauders absolutely wreck my face, more so than any other melee because of charge being on the same CD as my knockback.

 

Sorc has a 2-3k barrier he can put on himself every 20 seconds. He has a knockback on 20-sec CD. He has a slow so a sorc can kite you some. He has a sprint that'll let him run away and LoS. If anything a sorc should be the harder healer to kill as a marauder.

 

Operative has a 3-second evasion that makes them avoid all white attacks I believe. They have a CD that also absorbs some damage. They have a flashbang on a mintue cd, a slow, and mostly mobile heals so I could see an operative healer kiting you around but he'd have trouble getting away.

[Lugh]

You must have no idea what you are doing.

 

You are probably one of those that people ignore due to your ineffective flailing about.

 

The Marauders I face that are good? Cause me to run like a little girl fleeing the boogey man, as they will destroy me.

 

You need to be in the spec that gives you the burning dots, and the Group wide damage increases.

[lJustAlexl]

I agree with you. I have a lvl 50 marauder main and Im currently lvl 56 valor and its been one hell of a grind. After about a month of grinding my teeth in doing wzs on my Marauder I decided i wanted to try another class. So I made a sorc and a merc(I know these classes are pretty op, but didnt fully realize it when I made them) and when I hit lvl 10 I began queing WZs and dear god did I feel like any braindead idot could play those classes.

 

My point being that the fact that I fealt like the PvP game became 100x easier switching from playing my marauder and another class is a good sign.

 

Except that it doesn't make sense from the point of MMO game development. You've just said that, yes, there's an imbalance. Putting aside the fact that you enjoy this imbalance, doesn't the fact that that exists bother you?

 

We have average players of the other classes matching the proficiency of the excellent players of marauders. That's lazy. Either boost marauders so people can make the most of all the classes just as easily as one another or make the other classes more complex to match marauder (not the best idea, admittedly). There's no reason we should just accept an imbalance.

 

And this is coming from a 50 marauder who greatly enjoys his character. I'd like to see more diversity in warzones and making this class even slightly more embraceable would help.

Edited February 4, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Amp_]

I am currently playing a 31 Sentinel and I don't really have any complaints. It definitely has its growing pains and takes more effort to play than some other classes, but nothing I would consider gimped. I could see how people interpret that as being weak though. Overall I would say it's in a pretty good place.

 

Slows adding to resolve might not be a bad idea. However, that could also have a negative effect where I couldn't slow people. I'm not sure how that would play out. If I could ask for one thing for the Sentinel/Marauder, I guess it would be heavy armor. Without our defensive cooldowns we pretty much get blown up. That's just something I would like though and in no way do I demand it.

[Lugh]

Except that it doesn't make sense from the point of MMO game development. You've just said that, yes, there's an imbalance. Putting aside the fact that you enjoy this imbalance, doesn't the fact that that exists bother you?

 

We have average players of the other classes matching the proficiency of the excellent players of marauders. That's lazy. Either boost marauders so people can make the most of all the classes easily or make the other classes more complex. There's no reason we should just accept an imbalance.

 

And this is coming from a 50 marauder who greatly enjoys his character. I'd like to see more diversity in warzones and making this class even slightly more embraceable would help.

 

Please. I have to laugh every time I see this as there is little easier than playing a melee character in this game.

 

Leap, focus move, big hit big hit, leap, focus move, defensive cool down, focus move, interrupt, leap, big hitter, etc.

 

Are you also one of those players who refuses to use medpacs as they are /easymode/?

 

You are?

 

<<<that's just crazy dumb

[lJustAlexl]

Please. I have to laugh every time I see this as there is little easier than playing a melee character in this game.

 

Leap, focus move, big hit big hit, leap, focus move, defensive cool down, focus move, interrupt, leap, big hitter, etc.

 

Are you also one of those players who refuses to use medpacs as they are /easymode/?

 

You are?

 

<<<that's just crazy dumb

 

I can't tell whether you've yet to play a melee character in this game or you have, but you've never played ranged to compare the two (sniper aside, since I think they could use help too).

 

If you think melee classes are easy, you will be shocked at the ease of the ranged classes.

 

EDIT: Looking at your post again, I'm confident you don't play a marauder. If you do, you certainly aren't playing it well since you're entirely ignorant of the playstyle. Opinion dismissed.

Edited February 4, 2012 by lJustAlexl

[Archaar]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Marauders / Sentinels, they are the best melee DPS class at the moment. They are not a class where you can roll your face across your keyboard and win, for that you need to roll a Merc and spam nothing but tracer missile, you seem the type to profit from that.

[mufutiz]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Marauders / Sentinels, they are the best melee DPS class at the moment. They are not a class where you can roll your face across your keyboard and win, for that you need to roll a Merc and spam nothing but tracer missile, you seem the type to profit from that.

 

you are right. there is nothing wrong with marauders sentinels.

 

I am pretty sure even people who make threads like this, claiming the class is weak are aware of that and just choose not the ideal wording. Marauders don't need buffs. The ease of use of some other classes needs nerfs.

[karnyboy]

The only problem of marauder/sentinel is that roots do not count towards resolve...

 

Plus the fact that we have to spec into 3 different talents just to keep Focus up which is our bread and butter.

[mufutiz]

 

The Marauders I face that are good? Cause me to run like a little girl fleeing the boogey man, as they will destroy me.

 

 

While a good marauder can absolutely wreck your face, there are two possible reasons for what you posted here:

 

Please. I have to laugh every time I see this as there is little easier than playing a melee character in this game.

 

A)you're a troll.

B)you're one of those players merc tracer missile spam was made for. keep backpedaling, bro.

Edited February 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[Lugh]

I can't tell whether you've yet to play a melee character in this game or you have, but you've never played ranged to compare the two (sniper aside, since I think they could use help too).

 

If you think melee classes are easy, you will be shocked at the ease of the ranged classes.

 

EDIT: Looking at your post again, I'm confident you don't play a marauder. If you do, you certainly aren't playing it well since you're entirely ignorant of the playstyle. Opinion dismissed.

 

Thanks, Up yours as well, as it's clear you haven't seen how quickly GOOD, notice I said, GOOD, marauder's destroy snipers, and destroy sage, sorc, agent etc.

 

They hit harder, and spec'd properly can't be disengaged from without help from a friend or utilizing all your cc's.

 

The class I fear most in WZs? A competent Marauder. The class I fear least in WZs? A competent Sniper,Sorcerer, Arsenal Merc.

 

So try again. You're still doing it wrong.

[biowareftw]

Maras/sents need help in a sense that they should be easier to play. Having a million of abilities (and you have to use ALL of them) and a bunch of 10-20s cooldowns is not the best way to design a pure melee dps class.

Maybe we need a little something to combat CC or we need a knockback for ourselves. But it's not a huge deal.

Sadly, nothing is gonna change. The class is what it is. I just hope BioWare doesn't **** it up any further.

 

No they should not be easier to play. They are fine.

 

Just because ranged in this game is absolute faceroll doesn't mean ranged are like that in other games.

 

The problem in this game is ranged are far too easy to play not that sent/marauders are too difficult. Hunters are far from faceroll in WoW atm, and frost mages have to do things right. They can't just spam crap. In this game? Ranged can do exactly that.

 

I can lead dps as watchman, combat or focus. I mean you can complain about no diminishing returns and the resolve system being total trash but the class is fine.

 

There were more ret paladins then rogues or warriors in WoW. It didn't make ret paladins a better class. Good warriors/rogues always topped arena rankings.

 

The LAST thing this game needs is more CC.

 

Do not dumb down this class. Make ranged harder. They are boring as hell.

[mufutiz]

of course that has everything to do with the class and not you facing a better player than yourself, right

 

(my money is still on troll though)

Edited February 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[lJustAlexl]

Thanks, Up yours as well, as it's clear you haven't seen how quickly GOOD, notice I said, GOOD, marauder's destroy snipers, and destroy sage, sorc, agent etc.

 

They hit harder, and spec'd properly can't be disengaged from without help from a friend or utilizing all your cc's.

 

The class I fear most in WZs? A competent Marauder. The class I fear least in WZs? A competent Sniper,Sorcerer, Arsenal Merc.

 

So try again. You're still doing it wrong.

 

I decimate in warzones as my marauder as do others who share vids and screenshots on the marauder forums. The problem arises when (and most competent marauders who have played other classes can testify to this) it takes far more effort to reach that level of efficacy compared to the other classes in the game.

 

But, by your own admission, you haven't played the class so you wouldn't know. You should roll one and educate yourself.

[darkthsith]

i swear if pvp effects pve i will rip someones eyes out

[gtdead]

Buff marauders and you have the most broken and op facerolling class in the game. Anyone claiming that marauders are not strong in pvp is either undergeared or a bad player and there is nothing more to say.

 

The only thing that limits this class is the lack of a stun/knockback and I hope they are never given one.

 

Wish people could shallow their pride and try to improve instead of making silly threads like this one.

[Shanst]

Not to be mean, but you're either not 50 yet with all your skills or just don't know how to play the class.

 

This is my biggest issue with the class. Marauders are insanely weak until they are into their upper 30's / lower 40's and up. The class feels completely underpowered while pvping prior to those level ranges. Something that needs to be addressed IMO.