crazysam Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 To ninja is to take an item that you cannot use, did not legitimately earn, or take without allowing other players the chance to win said item. Since companions are part of your overall character, the person who won played his part in the instance, and you had the opportunity to win the item via roll, your situation is not a ninja situation. O.o No cause the said companion didnt take part of the said instance. YOU DONT NEED AN ITEM FOR YOUR COMPANION IF HE DIDNT TAKE PART IN THE INSTANCE!!! How can some poeple dont understand that...geez that said, dont run an instance with poeple who arent in ur guild. If they ninja the loot, ignore them and note their name so you wont have that surprise again! BW need to adress this issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) People who ninja for their companions... ...are smelly. Edited January 13, 2012 by lollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruthlessboy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's a bad idea... Everyone gets at least one companion that wears the same gear as them, so if they did that I couldn't give my companion my hand-me-downs. Well, that would be a bad thing, didn't think about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrit Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's not a ninja if he can use it including the companion. Companions are part of the game so you might want to just get used to that fact. I know I won't hesitate even for a second to need on a item for my companions. You're right, it isn't a ninja. It just makes you a deebag. Player characters > Companions. People should at least ask first, and if no one's main needs it, sure. Gotta love the narcissistic behavior of nameless online people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You're right, it isn't a ninja. It just makes you a deebag. Player characters > Companions. People should at least ask first, and if no one's main needs it, sure. Gotta love the narcissistic behavior of nameless online people. There's competing definitions of need, especially when it comes to companion usage. There isn't a universal rule on this issue. So unless you set up the definition in the current group your playing, it's open for interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeOfNukes Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 BioWare needs to add a "Companion" option apparently...that works the same as "disassemble"...that is, gives it a Greed roll, and lets people know what they are after. Unless your group says "Need for companions", Greed rolling should be the norm. There's an appropriate etiquette, where you DONT need roll for characters that weren't with you when you were in the group...whether it's alts, companions, friends, guildies, etc. You don't do it, plain and simple. A lot of people don't Need for stuff THEY need without asking permission. Why is it so hard for this community to ask. In short..Need rolling for your companion characters is Ninja'ing, unless you get expressed permission to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stivius Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 On Tarris group of 16 level 32-37 take down ancient one world boss. 3 agents in group. A nice purple protype drops clearly meant for agents. All roll need. A sith assasin also rolls need and wins, saying he needed it for his companion. *** If he helped take the boss down he has a right to have a roll, and as he won the roll you have no right to critisise him for what he does with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Just wait for dual specs! More Needing for things people won't use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldren Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) On Tarris group of 16 level 32-37 take down ancient one world boss. 3 agents in group. A nice purple protype drops clearly meant for agents. All roll need. A sith assasin also rolls need and wins, saying he needed it for his companion. *** Companions are a necessary part of the game until you reach 50th, and they're necessary at that point when you aren't in a Flashpoint or Operation, and are out doing dailies. Companions require upgrades. Ergo, if someone sees an upgrade appropriate for a companion they're going to use, it's a valid "Need" roll. So since everyone gets companions that use the various combinations of stats by your logic everyone should roll need on everything. You, sir, are the reason why I don't PuG. The existence of companions as vital parts of this game largely invalidates the common sense approach behind the Need Before Greed system to begin with, since as you've not-so-eloquently pointed out, everyone can conceivably need something with "valid" reasoning solely because it would go to a companion with appropriate stat priorities. As a result, I feel this game would more properly benefit from a "Roll/Pass" system. If you want it, you roll for it, if you don't want it, you pass on it. If everyone's rolling, everyone has an equal shot at the drop. Nothing could be more fair. You don't get exclusivity on loot due to being a particular class, even if the drop was meant for that class. You're in a group, they all helped down the boss, they all have an equal right to stake a claim on gear the boss drops. Put another way: unless the piece of gear in question has a class requirement built into it (and many do), it's not "intended" for a given class, even if its stat allocations lead it to one or two classes over a couple of others. Everyone helped down the boss, everyone has a fair shot at it. Don't forget about alts as well. A companion is barely a step away from an alt. In your eyes, maybe. Their necessity all throughout the leveling process would point to a different reality. Don't push your particular priorities on others. You don't get to determine how another player upgrades their character, of which their companions are a part. Easy solution would be if BW added roll for companion-option, that would allways come after main character rolls. At the same time they should do so that if you roll for yourself, you couldn't actually give it to your companion after that. This doesn't solve anything, as "Companion Need" simply becomes the new Greed. It also doesn't give you priority for what is an actual need. Whether some players agree with it or not, companion gear requires regular upgrading for the companion to continue functioning. I'm running around with Jaesa Willsaam right now, and if I don't keep her gear upgraded, then we don't have the combined damage output to kill mobs before they kill us (at least Silver mobs; most of the time I have to use my healer on Gold mobs, as the Marauder just doesn't have the right damage mitigation to survive otherwise). I keep her gear upgraded, and "nearly impossible" fights become "challenging but possible" fights. I think it may come to that. The problem is most people here only look at it from the stand point of WoW, in which the "Roll need if you will wear it right now" makes sense. A valid perspective, and here's the primary flaw I see with someone treating this game like WoW's loot: in WoW, you didn't immediately equip the gear. You waited til you could get back to a city so you could enchant it and gem it (and more recently, reforge it). In the last guild I was in before my current WoW guild, all of us in leadership set a requirement for someone rolling Need on a BOE item: equip it so it binds to you. We didn't force you to wear it in the instance, as it needed adjustments to be optimal, but we just wanted to make sure we could see it bound to you so the guild's efforts weren't just turning into meaningful pocket cash for one person. Guild members had no issues with this, as we all benefitted greatly from the guild policy of free consumables and enchants/gems to guild members. The rare PUG we pulled in occasionally griped, at which point they were usually ejected. Our guild run, our rules. This guy has it right! I will call anyone a ninja who rolls need for a companion. We all have companions that fill all the roles, so therefore everyone should roll need on every piece of gear that drops. Makes NO sense! This is why a Roll/Pass system makes more sense in light of companions being very viable and realistic upgrade needs, alongside our characters. Sure, we aren't using the companions in that particular Flashpoint. Then again, once we're done in that Flashpoint, we aren't benefitting those people with our upgrade either. Roll/Pass removes the drama and reduces it to what it should have been all along: if you want it, roll for it. You don't need to explain the reason for your roll, and it's no one else's business what you're going to do with something you contributed to get, and won via an impartial distribution system. No cause the said companion didnt take part of the said instance. YOU DONT NEED AN ITEM FOR YOUR COMPANION IF HE DIDNT TAKE PART IN THE INSTANCE!!! How can some poeple dont understand that...geez that said, dont run an instance with poeple who arent in ur guild. If they ninja the loot, ignore them and note their name so you wont have that surprise again! BW need to adress this issue! It doesn't matter if the companion took part in the instance or not. You, the companion's player, did. You helped contribute to killing the boss, you staked an equal and valid claim to a boss' drop. If someone else in your group gets the item, you no longer benefit from said item once the group is done. They're out there using that upgrade for their own purposes and goals, just as you are when you put it on a companion. It's a valid upgrade if it's for your character, which includes your companions. There's no way around this. You're appealing to a social contract which not every player agrees to, and is ultimately unenforceable. I'm appealing to a reality which results in someone getting loot, which means someone else didn't. Usually, the one who didn't gets upset to a degree equal to how badly they wanted it, but that's not an issue. The issue is simple: someone won the item, and they're going to use it. That's all that matters. It doesn't matter if they're going to vendor it for a couple hundred credits, it doesn't matter if they're equipping it on themselves, it doesn't matter if they're equipping it on a companion, hell, it doesn't even matter if they're sending it to an alt or guild member. They're making use of it in keeping with their personal goals. No other player has a right to tell them what they can or can't do with the loot they won on a fair roll. You're right, it isn't a ninja. It just makes you a deebag. Player characters > Companions. People should at least ask first, and if no one's main needs it, sure. Gotta love the narcissistic behavior of nameless online people. Gotta love it when people reduce themselves to name-calling because they can't argue a point. Player characters > companions according to whom? Can you show me something BioWare said that would back up that statement? They're the only authority in this game. Oh, you can't show me where they said something like that? It's because they never have. Gear goes to a player who plans on using it. It's none of your business where or how they plan on using it. Edited January 13, 2012 by Eldren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agammamon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'd have to say that companion's are part of the gameplay and we'll need to adjust some of the rules of polite behavior to accomodate that. In other games its really ****** behavior to snag non-class items to auction or breakdown. But here we often have a legitimate need. We have a team we are responsible for and do need these guys up-to-spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You need it for your companion, which you did not even use? That's cool... I need it for the credits I can sell it for. Credits are a part of my character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profaneascension Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Oh look, it's this thread again. Again, I reiterate that I am absolutely fine with people asking if it's okay to roll Need on an item so long as no player character in the group needs it. However, none of the people who automatically assume that their companion has equal entitlement to the loot has been able to answer the following question: Since we all have five companions who can use a wide variety of gear, where do you draw the line between Need and Greed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredcat Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Join a guild, never PuG anything, profit. This exactly, you will always run into selfish people in PUGs. The only PUG's I do are warzones where there's no loot worry about. Honestly though I don't know why people get so worked up about it. Good modable gear is extremely easy to get in this game. So's the pvp gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 A sith assasin also rolls need and wins, saying he needed it for his companion. *** Good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlaine Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You need it for your companion, which you did not even use? That's cool... I need it for the credits I can sell it for. Credits are a part of my character. Bad argument is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobaffet Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 What is the rule if you need for your companion ? you greed? but what if everyone else greed and dont want it, should you need? There should be a companion need beetween need and greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
origional Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Bloody cry babies. Need on everything that you need. Doesnt matter if you need it for the character you are playing, a companion, another character you have or their companions. If you need it, need it. Let the cry babies throw a tantrum. Maybe they'll smash their pc's in nerd rage and we wont have to hear from them again. Edited January 13, 2012 by origional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlacke Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So in your group of 3 agents and one assassin who probably tanked that boss and item dropped and he won it by roll fair and and square, for his companion who is an important part of the game. Now i see why this makes some people angry, personally i would NEVER do it, i just PASS on an item i don't find interesting, sometimes i greed for a companion, i can always run flashpoints with a friend for companion gear anyway....but that being said i really wouldn't blame that guy to the extent of calling him a ninja. I just have to say i noticed maybe 5% of the players i encountered know how to PASS on an item, everyone just greed's on everything, some even told me things like, o wow, i had no idea that you can PASS on something...erm yeah, ok. Edited January 13, 2012 by Vlacke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bloody cry babies. Need on everything that you need. Doesnt matter if you need it for the character you are playing, a companion, another character you have or their companions. If you need it, need it. Let the cry babies throw a tantrum. Maybe they'll smash their pc's in nerd rage and we wont have to hear from them again. Or they'll blacklist you so that you'll have trouble ever finding groups to run heroics or ops with. If you're not afraid of this, feel free to post your character names and server so we can see if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've been doing an experiment on my healer for the past week now. I've rolled need on everything in groups. No one's said anything. I've not gotten a single complaint or tell or anything. I mainly get praise for my healing prowess and people are just generally happy to have me in their group. I've called the experiment The Quon Initiative. It's based on The Quon from Everquest fame. Apparently people are ok with healers healing them and don't really put up a stink about loot rolling. So that Sith Assassin in the orignial post might not have angered as many Agents if they were a Sith Sorceror instead. At least that's what my experiment is telling me. I'm basically putting the social structure to the test and daring people to blacklist my healer (which, if I may toot my own horn, is a pretty darn good healer capable of doing amazing things to get my group through content). So far, no dice. People seem to value group healing more than rolling need for companions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Or they'll blacklist you so that you'll have trouble ever finding groups to run heroics or ops with. My experiment seems to indicate that people don't really blacklist you if you're a healer. I feel bad for DPS toons who already have enough problems getting groups since they're so easily interchangable. But that happens to DPS in every MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I've been doing an experiment on my healer for the past week now. I've rolled need on everything in groups. No one's said anything. I've not gotten a single complaint or tell or anything. I mainly get praise for my healing prowess and people are just generally happy to have me in their group. I've called the experiment The Quon Initiative. It's based on The Quon from Everquest fame. Apparently people are ok with healers healing them and don't really put up a stink about loot rolling. So that Sith Assassin in the orignial post might not have angered as many Agents if they were a Sith Sorceror instead. At least that's what my experiment is telling me. I'm basically putting the social structure to the test and daring people to blacklist my healer (which, if I may toot my own horn, is a pretty darn good healer capable of doing amazing things to get my group through content). So far, no dice. People seem to value group healing more than rolling need for companions. Ok, why don't you post your character name and server so that we can all see your healer do this without getting blacklisted? You can also take screenshots and post them here so that we have proof that people on your server don't care if you roll Need on every item. Make sure to post screens with different people in each group you run content with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bloody cry babies. Need on everything that you need. Doesnt matter if you need it for the character you are playing, a companion, another character you have or their companions. If you need it, need it. Let the cry babies throw a tantrum. Maybe they'll smash their pc's in nerd rage and we wont have to hear from them again. I'm willing to bet that if you spent an enormous amount of time to farm a "best-in-slot" weapon for your main character, and someone won the role just for their companion, you're not going to be too happy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomaspraill Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The community in this game is 80% first time MMO players. Save your breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBninjaX Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) if you roll need on something for your companion, and someone's character NEEDS that item --you're a selfish jerk. If you can't see that then you're clearly from the 'self-esteem' generation. Edited January 13, 2012 by HBninjaX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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