Dejoblue Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It is pretty simple. If they intend that combat logs are not needed for endgame then that endgame is going to be trivial, just as it has already been shown to be being beaten within 2 weeks of launch. If they want to get serious and have the game taken seriously they will get logs in asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostvein Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you can't tell if you are grouping with bads the problem isn't the game it is you. All you need to do is to pay attention. "Bads" as you call them are easy to spot. I want meters so I can make sure everyone is pulling their weight. "Meters are bad because people spend too much time watching them!" How can I tell if someone is doing bad without them? "Watch the person!" /boggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejoblue Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you can't tell if you are grouping with bads the problem isn't the game it is you. All you need to do is to pay attention. "Bads" as you call them are easy to spot. we arent talking about bads we are talking about top players competing for raid spots who will sit on the bench and get rotated in, We know who the bads are and dont need meters we need meters to do progression and see what classes are doing the most dps so we can stack, so we can understand what comp we need for individual fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppelin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you can't tell if you are grouping with bads the problem isn't the game it is you. All you need to do is to pay attention. "Bads" as you call them are easy to spot. I'm supposed to magically see how much DPS someone else is doing when I can't even see their floating text to magically do the arithmetic in my head. Besides, crunching numbers is half the fun of an RPG. The actual game play mechancis are pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krakken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 what a useless game mechanic if you cant see both sides. They just dont want you to know who is cheating on the other side. This means that when people are comparing their numbers you will see a huge outragous uproar on who are using cheats to win. And there are tons of the out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeDog Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You want to join my heroic pug.. I'll force you to upload a combat log from within the last week to a website validating your claims of being able to defeat content. I need a reason to start programming web pages again. No one would want to join your PUG fo shizzle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm supposed to magically see how much DPS someone else is doing when I can't even see their floating text to magically do the arithmetic in my head. Besides, crunching numbers is half the fun of an RPG. The actual game play mechancis are pretty boring. You don't need their numbers. Just learn their animations. If it is a Sentinel you should know what a slash looks like, you should know what a strike looks like, you should know what a zealous strike looks like, etc. This game isn't WoW, this game has more than three animations. You can judge what people are doing by what they look like they are doing. Simply spend the time to learn the other classes. If you say: "That takes a lot of effort and awareness! I can't watch a group of people and I don't want to learn the other classes!" Then the response is simple: "Then you don't have what it takes to lead people." I'm serious. Being a leader isn't supposed to be easy. WoW add on's took all of the challenge and skill out of it. This game doesn't have those. This game requires leadership skills if one wants to lead a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthchild Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) When you have content that requires groups effort, everybody in the group should be able to see who is and who is not pulling there weight. I really don't think looking at animation is going to show you much. If you don't want to be judge by other players, you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO, or at least not doing pugs. Maybe there can be an option for the group leader to turn off combat logs. Edited January 21, 2012 by Earthchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfessorWalsh Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 When you have content that requires groups effort, everybody in the group should be able to see who is and who is not pulling there weight. I really don't think looking at animation is going to show you much. If you don't want to be judge by other players, you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO, or at least not doing pugs. Maybe there can be an option for the group leader to turn off combat logs. There is already an option: There are no combat logs. Not an option to turn them off, they don't need to be on. Also you don't think looking at animations is going to show you much? The highest damage rotation in Combat is: Strike -> Zealous Strike -> Precision Strikes -> Blade Rush -> Blade Storm -> Master Strike I know what each of those animations look like. If someone is Combat specced and I don't see that rotation come out of someone and they aren't doing one of the "flurry variants" (which requires Zen to be activated and is fairly obvious due to glowing fists being part of it) that are effective then I know something is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzldeviouslzl Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 sounds like there is a lot of scared people out there who fear that people will know how lame there reaction speed and class mech are gs and dmg charts are useful tool we should not have to do without because people cant deal with leetests if your dmg output or heals ect are not on par and everyone is ok with that than just tell the kid shouting dps in raid to shut up its not important to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyssi Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 No where. Paser's have Malware in them. Enjoy account hacked. You really think BW needs to hack your account?! HAHAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 maybe a few patches down the road theyll have a fully operational combat log. no open combat log sounds like a good way for terrible players to hide how terrible they are. Except they specifically stated that they don't want everyone having complete access to the information about another character unless that person wants to share it. Universal combat logs and meters are not coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taroen Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If you can't tell if you are grouping with bads the problem isn't the game it is you. All you need to do is to pay attention. "Bads" as you call them are easy to spot. Actually the bads in this thread are easy as pie to spot... It's all the people who are deathly afraid of metrics, and even more afraid that someone might see their performance. Ridiculous notions abound with these people... Like "you know how much damage someone is doing by watching their animations". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Actually the bads in this thread are easy as pie to spot... It's all the people who are deathly afraid of metrics, and even more afraid that someone might see their performance. Ridiculous notions abound with these people... Like "you know how much damage someone is doing by watching their animations". A prime example of the reason why Bioware is protecting people's right to share combat data only with people they choose to share it with. And as someone who raids, I fully support this approach. Too many people with childish attitudes feel it's their prerogative to disrespect everyone who doesn't powergame/minmax and be self professed experts on classes. There's no reason to empower these types of people for trivial content such as storytelling mode operations and flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippon Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It's a start. And all that is needed.....Nobody needs to see anything done by another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake_Hound Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You know it is a very simple system dps , you know you are good when you kill the boss before enrage timer .... You know you stink as dps when the boss enrages , simple as that if 4 people are alive and boss enrages dps stinks . You know you have superior dps if you can aoe everything down before you die . You know you have superior dps if you can boost a scrub trough and they keep asking you to come back. So basically logs is nice , cause I can now see my real values , I don't need others logs cause if they can do the same as me hard mode runs are done in 45 min. If they are slacking hard mode gets done 1 hour and 30 min . So who cares about logs , when ultimate log is time itself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) It was sort of tucked at the end of one of Georg's posts, and while I noticed it, I haven't seen any threads on the matter. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 That's how I interpret the quote, anyway. (EDIT: Emphasis not mine. In the original quote, the word "your" is italicized) And it's all right by me. The people who want logs say they need meters to let them gauge their own performance as a point of personal pride. Few have been willing to admit they want them for any other reason. This should satisfy pretty much everyone -- both the people who want logs to help them better themselves, and the people who don't want the culture of elitism and exclusion that meters foster. It does not state only for your self. /thread. Edited March 6, 2012 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadix Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Good, it's a start. Hopefully we will be able to see everyone's in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 A prime example of the reason why Bioware is protecting people's right to share combat data only with people they choose to share it with. And as someone who raids, I fully support this approach. Too many people with childish attitudes feel it's their prerogative to disrespect everyone who doesn't powergame/minmax and be self professed experts on classes. There's no reason to empower these types of people for trivial content such as storytelling mode operations and flashpoints. You are the type of raider, that I have complete respect for. I bet your raids are successful, and plenty of fun. Bioware did, the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It does not state only for your self. /thread. Apparently you didn't watch the panel. You can enable a very minimalistic combat log feature that will post stuff like kill shots you perform and death hits you take for everyone to see. You can also enable detailed combat logging that explicitly states everything you do to your target and everything done to you. This logging creates a client side log you can CHOOSE to share with others. They emphasized during the panel that they want people to have the right to share or not share this information which is why they weren't building a full combat log into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Apparently you didn't watch the panel. You can enable a very minimalistic combat log feature that will post stuff like kill shots you perform and death hits you take for everyone to see. You can also enable detailed combat logging that explicitly states everything you do to your target and everything done to you. This logging creates a client side log you can CHOOSE to share with others. They emphasized during the panel that they want people to have the right to share or not share this information which is why they weren't building a full combat log into the game. Here's how that will work. When you join an Ops group you will be required to enable it for all players or be replaced. The group may require this only after a wipe, but it is their right to require it and you will comply or be replaced with someone who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It does not state only for your self. /thread. Actually they did say that yesterday. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmanlong Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Actually they did say that yesterday. /thread Actually No. You don't understand the way it works. You can create a combat log for yourself. This log actually captures all combat data which can be uploaded to a 3rd party site for analysis. There just will not be an in-game dps meter for others to view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Actually No. You don't understand the way it works. You can create a combat log for yourself. This log actually captures all combat data which can be uploaded to a 3rd party site for analysis. There just will not be an in-game dps meter for others to view. Which was the point, it's personal. The only data displayed will be that concerning the player, not anyone else in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Actually No. You don't understand the way it works. You can create a combat log for yourself. This log actually captures all combat data which can be uploaded to a 3rd party site for analysis. There just will not be an in-game dps meter for others to view. Incorrect. The panel specifically said they want to leave it up to the player as to whether they share their info or not. At least in this first version, there will not be a combat log that reports what everyone is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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