EQ2 tried DLC, it didn't work because then you have multiple DLCs and players simply cant play with each other becasue this player doenst have DLC X etc etc. They thought it would force others to buy DLC instead people simply didnt buy it and complained about waiting for an xpac or unsubbed. It just baffles me, they do not get it, SOE and Blizzard have been there and done that and here we are with retard executives that think they are slick and can con players into a F2P scam or DLC scam. And that is what they are, scams, they are....I wont get into how F2P is a scam akin to ponzi schemes and how micro-transactions should be illegal...thats another thread.

Hey dude I respect that fact that you were civil and my intent is to be so below, it is a pretty cool conversation were having, I like to know who is actually enjoying the game and why, anyways here is my response, cheers. Fact is SWTOR failed for many more reasons than I mentioned. 400,000 people have their own story of how SWTOR failed. They tried to be everything to everyone while not listening to anything they had to say, until they started to leave en masse that is. They were trying to please the SWG guys, the WoW guys the KOTOR guys and the Veteran MMO guys(EQ UO DAOC) ALL while telling us they weren't going to be like WoW and telling the press that they were going to be like WoW. I know 7 people that got to end game, saw that BioWare was not going to address their concerns anytime soon and promptly left. As GM of a WoW guild I had 20 people that weren't playing with me, that I raid lead in WoW, waiting to see if I was building a guild, if SWTOR was worth it. That is my sampling size. 7 out of 27? So 25%? 25% of WoW players I know tried SWTOR and left because it is a single player game, the developers refuse to even talk about issues let alone address them, there was nothing to do, PVP was and still is a stunned mess. And to drive the point home, they polished a turd with voice acting. What are you talking about? We had specific planets for leveling from 20 - 25...35-40...etc. You telling me me you could avoid Balmora or the most boring planet ever, alderan? You cant and, for the most part, it was linear. The Class quests are linear, the Bonus quests are linear, you do them and then discover, hey I have to do the side quests to level up enough to the next planet. I remember grinding out levels. We couldn't do dungeons because they required that you have quests and you couldn't repeat them and we still had trouble getting everyone to the same instance because it was still buggy. Exactly, you got to RP, bully for you, terrible for my space bar. There is a REASON that in WoW only 23(1%) of their 237 servers are RP, most people are not there to RP. They are there to be on a team and or socialize. See the answer above. BioWare just totally missed the team and socialization point of an MMO, so hard. Dude dont even consider what I said about this, consider instead the tremendous amount of wasted money on voice acting that could ahve been used to develop the game, have balanced finished Ilum and PVP. More gear models for us to choose from, more everything, things to do at end game, mini games etc. SOOO much money wasted on the GIMMICK of voice acting. besides, we will never know will we, those other quests were never made. Oh so you had to grind mobs too. I DID NOT want more story. Story is ALL SWTOR HAS. PERIOD. The mod system was broke, they were insisting that their artists feelings didn't get hurt so we were forced to have the good ole clown look know for far too long in every MMO ever, PVP was broken and unbalanced. All there WAS to do was reroll and hope things got fixed. It is great that you stand behind their thought process. See I didn't want to level every class in the game and then work on a main. I knew what my main class was going to be. I even leveled a Sin to 48. I gave it a LOT more of a chance than most games. And hey, I hate to admit it but I LOVED DA2... I am , or was, an avid BioWare FAN! BG to NWN to DAO to ME, ME3, DA2...man let me tell you that bar was set high, I understand how investors or EA just let them do whatever, but man oh man, the bigger they are... (I DO NOT blame EA for this failure by the way.) See, but most others DO agree with me, in their own way, SWTOR failed to keep them interested. SWTOR is going to be a small niche MMO that is F2P and you will probably have pay to win. Me and my ilk saw this comming once we got to end game and there wasnt anything there and the developers refused to even have a discussion about it, let alone when they totally shat on the raiders, but that is a whole other thread about how they lost the majority of the WoW playerbase that they drew. I doubt that after the 6 month subscribers unsub that they have 250,000 subs. It is OBVIOUS that this game started out as KOTOR 3 and was shoehorned into an MMO. If I am wrong about its inception then I can tell you that I felt like I was playing KOTOR/Dragon Age/ME2 the whole time, as should be expected from KOTOR 3. But it was just the wrong move. World of Warcraft (almost) learned in WotLK that players get very tired of RP, so much so that they had to go back and include a clicky in ToC and other raids so we could get attempts in. Now, and I am blaming this on SWTOR, they have a 3 minute RP session before we pull Ultraxion and a 4 minute RP session before we pull Deathwing(not counting the cinematics that we are luckily able to have not play via the addon BigWigs). It is annoying. It works in a single player because you play it once and move on. That kinda sums up a lot of what went wrong, "It works in single player, not in an MMO".

“If I’d listened to customers, I’d have given them a faster horse.” - Henry Ford We got a horse...in spaaaace!

The people that wanted to play KOTOR 3, GOT to play KOTOR 3 and left. Many others were forced into a linear leveling experience that was nothing more than an interactive movie with no MMO or end game at the end. Who is left are the players that wanted to play an MMO, although many like myself wanted an MMO (NOT KOTOR 3) and got to the end, yes the end, and there was nothing. The story was great. The voice acting was great, but I hated that it was voice acted at all. I CAN READ, THANK YOU. I WANT to read. Same difference between a movie and a book, the book is ALWAYS better, you get to imagine the voices yourself, make them into your own character, your own version. One of the biggest mistakes was the on rails class questing system. I am not saying it was not a cool experience, it was, but it was like playing a single player game and this huge investment into exclusive class story/quest lines was at the expense of storylines and quests that everyone can do. This on rails exclusive class system with nothing else available took out a large chunk of what could have made an open world where you get to roam around and do what quests you want to do. You were also all but forced to do every, single, quest. ALL of the Bonus series', simply because you needed the XP. XP was pretty scarce to find, and this is coming from a veteran EQ2, AOC, WOW, RIFT player. It is as if they made all the quests, then got out their calculator and divided the total xp to get to 50 by the number of quests in the game, total. Terrible. If you want more story you have to start over, and play a different class. This is counter to the point of an MMO, persistence for the sake of progression of your character. I dont want to play every single class to get ANY more story. I got my BH to 50 and it wasn't the fantastic leveling experience many claim. It was a lonely experience. I even leveled with good friends and it was a PITA to organize all three of us to go here and there and then find out that so and so has to get to this point in their class quest to pick up this other quest so everyone can progress together at the same time. Much time was spent on our own part of the map doing small class quests to get to bosses where we all trudged to each others boss to help. Very single player and tedious. Open world and quest system that everyone regardless of class can access, not on rails exclusive storylines that force you to abandon your character and start over to experience other content. Gameplay, not Voice acting MMO, not tacked on multiplayer. (it is as if none of the developers ever played an MMO, SOOO many basic features missing, still missing.)

I preordered and got in for headstart. The game had great promise. SO much that I handed over GM to my guild of 4 years to one of my Co GMs and tried to make a home here. We had personality conflicts and the guild dissolved, I wont blame SWTOR for that but I will blame it for not keeping me. Luckily my WOW guildmates accepted me back as their GM and I didn't lose anything but my pride. By that time it was apparent there was no endgame and nothing on the horizon. I came back to try SWTOR, even paid $15 bucks to do so as I missed the first free chance because my computer crashed and I was early for the recent free retrial. I will not be coming back, ever. I gave it two shots and paid good money. Why did I leave in the first place? *The developers are unbelievably arrogant. They think they know what we want even when we tell them otherwise. *STORY IS A FAILURE. WoW already tried this in WotLK. Yea you may have been 3 years into production, but still you could have saved it because spamming spacebar and the 1 button is not fun. We learned in WoW with WotLK that MMO Gamers DO NOT LIKE to have to wait for RP to play out when waiting to pull a boss or progress to the next part. *They refused to implement core elements like metric(DPS/Threat meters) or a UI API like WoW had at LAUNCH 8 years ago (enough nonsense about WoW having had years to develop they had their core mechanics down at launch. WoW EQ2 and RIFT launched without Dungeon Finders but both RIFT and EQ2 had JUST implemented Dungeon Finders...) And the development team hems and haws about if they are going to add a dungeon finder... In the end the community on the forums, the anti WoW fanbois, got what they wanted: A $200,000,000 - $300,000,000 (I wrote out all the zeros so you can really soak that in) Star Wars MMO that is so unlike WoW it doesn't have core MMO features and alienates the masses. It really is that simple. Are ya happy? Ya get to play Star Wars with, with, no one. I WANT SWTOR to fail. I want it to be shut down. I want other developers to take it apart and realize, "hey they didn't listen to anyone when it didn't even have basic MMO features and the developers said they REFUSED to add them."

If I am logged out I can see all pages of a thread, but when I log in (like say to post my opinion because ya know everyone knows I am right) I can only see up to page 5. I have even tried copy pasting the url of the page and it takes me to page 5. What gives?

I don't like being lured back to trial, even tho it is free it still takes up my time, or to be given promises of free gifts only to find in the FINE PRINT,that you must have an ACTIVE account to get the "FREE" gifts that this promotion offers. I still do not see where the "Free" is. This also doesn't help me as my guild could use a tank NOW, not some time mid August, and those 25 BH tokens could help, as well I have paid, and subsequently canceled, because you havent changed core game features and mechanics to come up to par with other games, not wow, how about EQ, EQ2 and RIFT to name others. Sorry to rant but all I see is same ole same ole......EA. Sorry, guys but this game just has that fishy EA smell, like everything they have their dirty hands in. Gah off on a rant again. Well, GL and well wishes to all who choose to stay I am glad you enjoy this game Peace!

My apologies. There is a giant pictures after basic information. I am used to not scrolling down becasue every...single...page... has the : LucasArts Bioware Electronic Arts Logos Terms Archive | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | FAQ | EUALA | Rules of Conduct | Online Safety | Contact Us LucasArts, the LucasArts logo, STAR WARS and related properties are trademarks in the United States and/or in other countries of Lucasfilm Ltd. and/or its affiliates. © 2011-2012 Lucasfilm Entertainment Company Ltd. or Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved. BioWare and the BioWare logo are trademarks of EA International (Studio and Publishing) Ltd. EA and the EA logo are trademarks of Electronic Arts Inc. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

As per: http://www.swtor.com/transfer When do I get my free Gannifari pet and 25 Black Hole Commendations? Please and thank you.

Hey everyone I played at launch and just resubbed and was wondering how things are and what to expect, what has changed. I dont mean the patch notes I mean the community, the direction and feel of the game, what people like what is still missed what new thing is awesome and unexpected etc. I started as a hardcore player but plan to raid casually while still playing WoW and EQ2. Thanks for your help!

The questing is the most linear I have ever experienced. Certainly I have done epic chain quests like the AQ gates opening or the Druid epic flight form quest, but each and every planet. it is like you don't get to breathe. And everyone makes a beeline for the next marker. the only time you see anyone is at these markers. The "quest helper" has completely ruined exploration. WOTLK is when the sense of wonder and exploration was lost in videogames because of that damned quest helper and carbonite addons. Sure you could look it up on thottbot or wowhead or any other database but that was a not a button click away.

The target market for MMOs is NEW subscribers. What I mean by this is that new players that have not subscribed to the game take precedence over current subscribers. This is what leads to the community not being stable and large turnover. Does turnover naturally happen? Of course. Does catering the game to only draw in new players benefit the publisher? You bet. Does it have an impact on the playerbase? I am not certain it has an immediate impact but it has a long term one for sure. Turnover happens naturally, I am sure they have looked at the statistics and determined that it is better to focus on bringing in new players. Luckily this involves new things to do in game and benefits current subscribers as well. That other game is a great example and is curious sociologically as well as the game has gone from a hardcore raiding EQ/UO nerds focus to a mainstream casual friendly focus. Of course we can debate to no end whether it was the large groups of players finishing a task together that brought in the masses to participate or if it was just catering to a more casual player that met out the success seen. In the end this is what the genre is and will be for the foreseeable future. The days of more than 25 players raiding a boss are over. The days of one mode of raiding are gone. EQ and RIFT would LOVE to have SWTORs numbers. ANY new MMO coming to market is going to have to combine the best of what these games have to offer and do it with the same marketing and development strategy that has been successful in two massively successful MMOs. *Opinion: Story and cut-scenes have NOTHING to do with it. They are nice but everyone I have played with spacebars...We hated the long RP in wow to get to the boss fights and we despise them in SWTOR.

Oh I am so sorry. So you are just here to argue for the sake of arguing, practicing those logic skills you learned in college eh? Good show old bean good show.

Well, SWTOR will lose those subscribers, sure. But one open question is: will Bioware gain or retain more players overall by choosing not to cater to the hardcore? We don't yet know the answer. World of Warcraft has shown with Cataclysm that catering to casuals, with the dungeon finder, will get you a loss of 10% of your playerbase over the course of an expansion cycle. Video games aren't really the source of that kind of hero-worship, by and large. I truly and honestly doubt that anyone except the other competitors ever cares if you get a world first something. Honestly, and meaning no offense, it is completely meaningless to me as an accomplishment and I in no sense put those people on pedestals. And I'm a gamer, even, playing the same games! Here you say that NFL/NBA are hero worship but that, in your perspective which of course has to be broad and all inclusive MMOs dont have heros or worshippers I don't aspire to be a professional athlete, actually, and never did. Since you went there, wouldn't it be a lot healthier for our society if we encouraged kids to form role models that actually provided something of substance to humanity besides mere escapism? Here you say you dont worship them and set up that there actually could be MMO players that do not worship other MMO players or guilds. Of course that is unless we are living in your narrow view of the world where no one could possibly worship me or vodka or some other organization. OK, if you say so. I feel pretty sure I've heard this line before though. Anyhow, take your ball and go home if you wish to; I'm still having fun here. Can I have your stuff? Yea I know "we are just trying to throw the ball into the basket, we arent keeping score, if you wanna keep score go away because you might win". You inherently do not want my stuff your friends would laugh at you for having purples. "My way to play MMOs is the One True Way. Cater to my playstyle or your entire game, nay your very industry, will crumble into dust and ruin! BEHOLD! THUS IS IT WRITTEN, THUS SHALL IT BE!" Or, alternately, it's possible that this is simply a different type of game, intended to cater more to casual players, and doesn't spell the death knell for progression raiding overall. This is where you are a hypocrite. You lambaste me for wanting something then proselytize your way of playing, the opposite of what I want, as what SWTOR intends. This showcases your small minded world view and beats down anyone that wishes to be competitive in any way. Casual is the ONLY way! Raiding isn't the sole or main source of community in games, actually. I can understand how it might appear that way to a dedicated raider, but I encourage you to look into it a bit. You'll find that some people like to group up just to do normal questing. Some people like to chat with guild mates while doing their own thing. A lot of socialization can actually occur without anyone entering a flashpoint or operation. Thanks for assuming I do not socialize in games. I know all of the above and participate in all of he above. Again you showcase your bigotry towards competitive players. I am truly sorry I am a better player than you, that I like to invest my time into being the best I can be and that you discount that because you think socializing is more important than being successful.

I didn't miss your point. You think knowledge and information is a crutch. You prefer going in blind. SO DO I. IF and ONLY if it does not hinder the difficulty and diversity of encounters that BioWare can and will create. I do not know how to make myself more clear. I am arguing FOR the casuals. You are going to scream bloody murder if there are encounters you do not understand and cannot do. I am laying out the possibilities. BRING IT ON. Bring On threat based encounters, we will do it old school with timers and someone in vent barking orders on who is to stop DPSing and who is to start DPSing. We WILL find a way. My POINT is that this is a VERY old design philosophy that WILL alienate the masses and that has already evolved FAR beyond 72 man zerg raids and wing buffet knockbacks. Bring it ON. Make me WISH we had proper tools. Make it SO difficult that I cry like I did when we finally killed Vael in WoW after 2 months of wipes for server first. BRING IT ON I WANT THAT EPICNESS AGAIN!