MoonsLightV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well this actually might be the problem, don't really dig into these kind of speculations, but this sounds like it might be true, and if it is well then i really hope they do something about it. I can completely believe this. It is a known fact that background DRM programs are crippling to FPS during gameplay. When CDProjekt removed the DRM on Witcher 2 my performance alone with JUST THAT increased by almost 25%. Think about it, the FPS problems that have plagued so many with this game may just be because of this, if it is constantly trying to check your system and is operating in the background, it will cause performance hits and resource usage which will result in FPS problems all over. Bioware has yet to fully explain why hundreds if not even thousands of players are having FPS problems other then "low end pcs" and "we are continuing to investigate this problem and hope to have a fix" or whatever other nonsense they are spouting about it. They sure as heck are not going to come out publicly and admit there is a DRM program tied to this game like that, the backlash and negative press would be detrimental. PC gamers are already sensitive as it is about DRM being on their rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exostotic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Not to feed the flames here... but I'm extremely disappointed by Bioware's decision on the matter, and I'm pretty confident that their decision to cater to the lowest common denominator and only that, will not work to their advantage. This is the first time I have ever played an MMO where developers have decided to halve the texture quality not as an option but as a mandatory change across all clients. It's unforgivable, and the reasons behind it are ridiculous. Until now, I've been tinkering a lot with the .ini as well as NvidiaInspector to try to force high res character textures. Thinking it was an LOD bug, I forced the LOD bias to -3.00 and noticed something else happening instead. It seems we may not even be getting the best environment textures the game has to offer because the standard LOD refuses to render them. I've attached screenshots below for comparison between what the game is rendering at standard "high" settings, and what the game renders with LOD bias forced below the standard threshold. Standard LOD: http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j136/Cgramnaes/SWTOR_No_LOD.jpg Forced LOD: http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j136/Cgramnaes/SWTOR_Forced_LOD.jpg I should also mention that the change has made no impact on my FPS, and has if anything made the game run smoother for me. That is a gorgeous game. I sure wish I could play it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladVV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm sure it is, name another game that has two in this case SWTOR.exe running in program manager. The second .exe is probably the remote renderer, causing our fps to plummet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree it’s time to take the next step. Bioware has made it clear that they do not respect or value us as paying customers. We should start voicing our opinions and utter disbelief in this garbage Bioware is trying to shove down our throats in the social media. Bioware will soon understand the MMO gaming community is not one that excepts being lied to or taking advantage of. Remember what happened to Allods in less than a week, SWG, Planetside and AOC to name a few. All it takes is one miss guided step. The best thing they could do is just come clean and say "We screwed up. We should have communicated this situation earlier and more clearly. We didn't mean to mislead players, making them think that these high res textures would be in game immediately after launch. We should have communicated this in Beta that this was a possibility." If they were to do something like that... well, I think people are pretty forgiving if companies are honest. Studies have shown that companies that handle a mistake for customers well actually have higher loyalty from those customers than from customers who never have had an issue. Now, if you drop the ball when the moment of truth arises........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshella Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Many People including me will not subscribe again next month if this doesnt get fixed the game looked mutch better in beta and i dont want to look at ugly n64 textures while playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caonimah Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm sure it is, name another game that has two in this case SWTOR.exe running in program manager. It could be whatever Bioware did so Hero acts like a multi threaded program. I seriously doubt its an issue with streaming or anything. You'd notice really bad lag if all of these things were server side, like how FFXIV was during launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArTwo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Very disappointed, I don't care if it makes the game run (today) 15fps having those textures enabled at all times when im at the republic fleet, when it's just me and 3 or 4 mobs I'm sure my system will cope. Could you at least make the medum texture version RESEMBLE the colours in use of the high resolution ones? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11234582/republicdancer_compare1.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11234582/republicdancer_compare2.png Because they are so different its not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonforma Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree it’s time to take the next step. Bioware has made it clear that they do not respect or value us as paying customers. We should start voicing our opinions and utter disbelief in this garbage Bioware is trying to shove down our throats in the social media. Bioware will soon understand the MMO gaming community is not one that excepts being lied to or taking advantage of. Remember what happened to Allods in less than a week, SWG, Planetside and AOC to name a few. All it takes is one miss guided step. Yeah I've been mostly silent on the forums but that changed today. They will respond to pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) If this is infact true, there'll be hell to pay. Well, EA had to remove Origin as a requirement for SWToR after the big scandal over Origin originally scanning your entire computer, thus giving them massive bad press and forcing them to change how Origin works. So of course they had to get their DRM in somehow, and without (they were most likely hoping ) letting anyone know. Edited January 11, 2012 by Zorvan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonsLightV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The second .exe is probably the remote renderer, causing our fps to plummet. Have they even said what this second .exe was for? I don't remember seeing anything about it at all as to what it is supposed to really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) So we finally got our big reply from Stehpen Reid today on why "everything was working as intended" and it is "just not technically possible" to have high res textures. And surprise surprise! It was another set of lies from EA/Bioware to hide the truth. This is the real truth. The beta client ran fine with all high res because this DRM crap wasn't in there. Guys we need to get this message out to everyone. This needs to be shared and posted over and over again. Let EA/Bioware know you will not stand for it. EA/Bioware have consistently engaged in a campaign of stonewalling, lies, and deception since lauch. It absolutely infuriates me. /signed. I ran Beta on a Gateway 7805u 4GB RAM 1GB Nvidia 9800M and had 40 FPS on max, game is released same computer was running at 10 FPS. I have since then spent 2K on a new rig to play SWTOR errrr Skyrim on. Edited January 11, 2012 by Zezel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wefi Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 They should release some client mod tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladVV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well, EA had to remove Origin as a requirement for SWToR after the big scandal over Origin originally scanning your entire computer, thus giving them massive bad press and forcing them to change how Origin works. So of course they had to get their DRM in somehow, and without (they were most likely hoping ) letting anyone know. Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooplex Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Again, this needs to be put into the OP. Originally Posted by SucXeviouS Quoted from massively user Deliverator: "THIS IS ALL CAUSED BY BIOWARE IMPLEMENTING REMOTE RENDERING AS A FORM OF COPY PROTECTION. THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING BETWEEN THE HIGH SETTINGS DURING BETA AND THE SETTINGS AVAILABLE NOW. Massively - what you missed is that the High Rez textures worked fine in the Beta. For release, they implemented REMOTE RENDERING. What's actually happening is that they can't handle the network traffic generated by remotely rendering higher rez textures. Let me repeat - High Rez doesn't work because of anti-piracy DRM shenanigans, not because they're concerned about players' machines. They're remote rendering so people who have purchased the game won't be able to dig through Lucas's precious artwork for their fan sites. Again - they're remote rendering so you can't 'steal' what you bought already. Its copy protection and they're willing to go so far as to gimp the game and lie to cover it up. Remote rendering is the cause of all of the frame drops and slow downs as well as advanced rendering features not working, We pay big money to buy the machines that have gigantic pipes between all of our components, especially to the GPUs. Internet throughput is nowhere near the bandwidth on your motherboard." http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/01...onc/4#comments This makes a lot of sense and if true, it is absolutely scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Have they even said what this second .exe was for? I don't remember seeing anything about it at all as to what it is supposed to really do. I have money on it's the remote renderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caonimah Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is false, the remote renderer is remote from the exe as it is a spawned process. MemoryMan.dll allows the engine and the renderer to communicate freely as if they were one process. In case anyone missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grezgorz Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Cancelled my sub today This is depressing to say the least after defending the game for so long. QQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Have they even said what this second .exe was for? I don't remember seeing anything about it at all as to what it is supposed to really do. And that says a lot, doesn't it? If it was nothing, they'd have told us already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberdeckVIII Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Protected interactive 3D graphics via remote rendering http://uninsubria.academia.edu/MarcoTarini/Papers/777839/Protected_interactive_3D_graphics_via_remote_rendering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes_Arizona Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah I've been mostly silent on the forums but that changed today. They will respond to pressure. No, they won't. Which is why I suggested back on the first page that everyone take this to Facebook/Twitter and Metacritic. They will not respond to US individually. They will respond to the rest of the world getting to see the crap we're being handed. Keeping your disappointment centered on the TOR forums will elicit no response at all. They've already given us "the answer" and "thats the way things are". The only way to make BioWare understand that its not what we're willing to accept is to twist their arm by using the reporting measures available to the internet at large. Bad press is bad press regardless of where it comes from. Cancelling your subscription is also an option that I suggest you exercise, you certainly won't be penalized for doing so and it will send a clear message that you do not intend to accept this answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malist Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This explains why my armor looks a completely different color in cutscenes and not as dull. BTW - Cutscenes also show mobs that are near, so it's not needing to remove those from rendering to run. I'd like to see this high-rez option turned on with a disclaimer box that performance may be poor. And if this isn't the problem, then start telling is what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PibbyPib Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And that says a lot, doesn't it? If it was nothing, they'd have told us already. It was repeatedly explained above. Stop screaming for five seconds and read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeedaiFiresaber Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Our cruisers can't repel Rabble of this magnitude!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zezel Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, they won't. Which is why I suggested back on the first page that everyone take this to Facebook/Twitter and Metacritic. They will not respond to US individually. They will respond to the rest of the world getting to see the crap we're being handed. Keeping your disappointment centered on the TOR forums will elicit no response at all. They've already given us "the answer" and "thats the way things are". The only way to make BioWare understand that its not what we're willing to accept is to twist their arm by using the reporting measures available to the internet at large. Bad press is bad press regardless of where it comes from. Cancelling your subscription is also an option that I suggest you exercise, you certainly won't be penalized for doing so and it will send a clear message that you do not intend to accept this answer. I agree social media is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladVV Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Protected interactive 3D graphics via remote rendering http://uninsubria.academia.edu/MarcoTarini/Papers/777839/Protected_interactive_3D_graphics_via_remote_rendering Figure 3 in that paper is exactly what's going on in the game right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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