Complaining about endgame IS NOT justifiable.

[Asavar]

Maybe someone should point out there were 5 end game raids in WOW at release: Molten Core, Onyxia, Strat, Scholo, and UBRS. The difficulty on Molten Core was such that it took most groups 3+ months to clear.

 

Blizzard at least knew end game was important.

 

But I'm done complaining and after the 21st, won't be posting on these boards anymore.

 

Edit: Meant UBRS--not LBRS

 

Good riddance, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

btw, MC and Onyxia were the only raids. The others weren't true "Raids".

 

Inaccurate information is inaccurate.

[Vidrak]

My only complaint is they should have made leveling take at least 3-5 times longer. It is currently way too fast.

 

How would they not expect people complaining when the 5 years of content they made was plowed through in under a month? And how do they expect to maintain subscriptions when there is nothing left for people to play?

 

I think these companies executives need to go back to school and learn about a proper business model that doesn't hemorrhage subscriptions after a couple months ... A longer leveling curve would alleviate all of these problems. Making a game that you can complete completely by PUG'ing isn't challenging enough. PUG'd raids are finishing the content inside of a month? There is no way I will be subscribing much longer if it is that much of a joke.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Vidrak

[GarbonzotheDude]

btw, MC and Onyxia were the only raids. The others weren't true "Raids".

 

Inaccurate information is inaccurate.

 

They were raids. So he isn't being inaccurate at all. For you to say they weren't "true" raids is the only thing inaccurate.

 

Just because one requires less people than another does not mean that it isn't a raid.

[Azzras]

What is the latest WoW raid, Deathwing?

 

Isn't there a phase where DW is flying while you're fighting on his back.

 

THAT IS SO FAIL! DW WOULD DO A BARREL ROLL TO VICTORY!!! LOLOLOL

(unless all the raiders are wearing some kind of magical velcro boots....lol)

 

 

SWTOR has issues, yes, but is shaping into an outstanding game overall.

[Fraxture]

After rift? yes probably expecting too much. dont know why you would compare anything to wows release, it was nearly 10 years ago.

 

LOL, I was there on day one with Rift.

I enjoyed the bug where the world events in the starter area, where everyone was at most level 10 after about 2 hours of playing, with these level 30 NPCs running around one hitting everyone.

Hell, they even wiped out the college..it was a massacre.

 

It was so ridiculous it was funny.

We all felt Rift developers were griefing us.

 

Rift had it's issues as well. Nodes that were un-clickable, quest that would not spawn or complete right.

 

It's the way of MMOs.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Fraxture

[Striker]

They were raids. So he isn't being inaccurate at all. For you to say they weren't "true" raids is the only thing inaccurate.

 

Just because one requires less people than another does not mean that it isn't a raid.

 

So WoW had no casual single group content at end game then. That sounds way worse than having only 2 raids.

[GarbonzotheDude]

Scholo and Strat are/were 5 mans, YOU CANT EVEN GET IT RIGHT, guessing because YOU DIDNT PLAY THEN.

 

Oh the delicious irony...

[Paganini]

WoW is a game that patched and worked through content FOR YEARS.

 

This game isn't even a month old.

 

Your expectations are suprisingly high.

 

I wouldn't want to tell you what to do... but maybe you were expecting too much out of this game.

 

2004 WoW is irrelevant in comparison to TOR. MMO players don't have the choice between purchasing 2004 WoW and 2012 TOR, they have the choice of 2012 WoW and 2012 TOR.

 

Really not that complicated.

[Makade]

Molten core wasn't there at realease!

UBRS wasn't there on release, LBRS was and people used raidgroups for it but it was NOT raidcontent.

Strat and Scholo where not RAID content.. they where grouped content just like we have flashpoints in SWTOR.

 

That leaves 1 boss.. YES 1!!! onyxia!

 

EVERYTHING ELSE WAS ADDED AFTER RELEASE! (granted UBRS and MC where added damn fast but they where NOT in the release build of vanilla wow)

 

This is correct.

[Striker]

So like TOR content only more expansive?

 

Sort of. I guess Bioware didn't copy making their bugged bosses completely unkillable as well as blizzard did at launch. It may sound conspiracy theorist like but I believe a lot of end game actual release stuff in WoW isn't always truthful. They kept things so well blocked through attunements, gear requirements, player requirements stuff could have been missing for months before the players would actuall know.

 

I mean even in BC Hyjal was supposedly in the game at launch, but Kael was impossible and Vashj was without bugs and soulstone exploits. So it wasn't proveable either way.

[LukeRPWalker]

WoW is a game that patched and worked through content FOR YEARS.

 

This game isn't even a month old.

 

Your expectations are suprisingly high.

 

I wouldn't want to tell you what to do... but maybe you were expecting too much out of this game.

 

This game is out about 7 years later than WoW, so the complaint is really justfied.

 

/thread.

[Hitomo_x]

Doesn't matter if it's a valid point or not, because ultimately, the best game wins.

 

 

thats not true ... WoW, Sims, CoD ... all the worst games of there kind

[GarbonzotheDude]

So WoW had no casual single group content at end game then. That sounds way worse than having only 2 raids.

 

Actually both sound equally awful to me.

 

Just sayin'

Edited January 11, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude

[YooYooMa]

"wah wah wah, guys you shouldn't have standards and you should accept mediocrity, wah wah wah"

 

Shh baby shh

[Striker]

What is the latest WoW raid, Deathwing?

 

Isn't there a phase where DW is flying while you're fighting on his back.

 

THAT IS SO FAIL! DW WOULD DO A BARREL ROLL TO VICTORY!!! LOLOLOL

(unless all the raiders are wearing some kind of magical velcro boots....lol)

 

 

SWTOR has issues, yes, but is shaping into an outstanding game overall.

 

That is actually part of the mechanic. But he only realizes people are on his back if most of them are standing on one side. So then he does a barrel roll. You can stand in a hole in his back to avoid flying off. It was hilarious the first time we fought him and 3 people flew off immediately.

[Waiting]

There's little difference between WoW's endgame and SWToR's endgame.

 

They both feature mindless farming of gear and/or "tokens" with which to purchase gear, only WoW has more of the aforementioned mindless farming because it has been out longer. Neither game has an endgame of which I want any part and it looks as if SWToR is only adding more of the same.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Waiting

[Spynnal]

2004 WoW is irrelevant in comparison to TOR. MMO players don't have the choice between purchasing 2004 WoW and 2012 TOR, they have the choice of 2012 WoW and 2012 TOR.

 

Really not that complicated.

 

True, but when determining something potential, you do compare their first year.

 

Be like saying Charlie Batch is a better QB than Cam Newton. I mean Charlie has 10,000 yards, and Cam only 4,000!

 

But when you mention to folks Cam played 1 year, and Charlie 8+ years, they stop comparing that, and compare their rookie seasons to guess where Cam is heading.

 

If you expected a brand new MMO to beat an 8 year, billion dollar backed project, I'd say you entered with unrealistic expectations.

[Offended]

man, so much bad information here.

 

wow was released with Onyxia, MC, as 40 man raid content.

 

UBRS/LBRS, strat, scholo were 5 man instances. At release, they didnt "lock" raid groups from entering dungeons, nor did they limit the number of players in the instance.

 

I suspect one of the reasons why was to get to MC< you had to go through LBRS (40 man LBRS > *)

 

Patch 1.3 (March), when they added Dire Maul, they capped players in instances and gave you a way to port to MC.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.3.0

 

Onyxia/Molten Core - 40 members

Blackrock Spire - 15 members

Diremaul - 5 members

All other dungeons in the game will be capped at 10 members

 

Later on, they nerfed strat/scholo considerably and made it 5 man cap.

[Azzras]

That is actually part of the mechanic. But he only realizes people are on his back if most of them are standing on one side. So then he does a barrel roll. You can stand in a hole in his back to avoid flying off. It was hilarious the first time we fought him and 3 people flew off immediately.

 

So he doesn't notice the stabbing, burning and screaming on his back?

 

Not to knock the mechanic itself, it's just a bit of an immersion breaker that the most powerful dragon in all of Azeroth doesn't notice a bunch of scrubs jumping on his back and stabbing him to death.

[jarjarloves]

Maybe someone should point out there were 5 end game raids in WOW at release: Molten Core, Onyxia, Strat, Scholo, and UBRS. The difficulty on Molten Core was such that it took most groups 3+ months to clear.

 

Blizzard at least knew end game was important.

 

But I'm done complaining and after the 21st, won't be posting on these boards anymore.

 

Edit: Meant UBRS--not LBRS

 

MC wasn't in at lauch it was added shorlty after. Pretty Sure Onyxia wasn't either but that isn't really a raid it's just one boss.

 

Strat and Scholo aren't raids either they were 5 mans. Scholo was made into a raid because it was to hard then turned back into a 5 man.

 

 

Ubrs and Lbrs are the only real raids in at launch.

 

 

Anyhow This game has end game content it launched with a raid and 2 flashpoints..

 

Plus a PVP system and Warzones which is far more then WoW launched with PLUS the ablity to do all the old dungeons again on hard difficulties.

[Offended]

True, but when determining something potential, you do compare their first year.

 

Be like saying Charlie Batch is a better QB than Cam Newton. I mean Charlie has 10,000 yards, and Cam only 4,000!

 

But when you mention to folks Cam played 1 year, and Charlie 8+ years, they stop comparing that, and compare their rookie seasons to guess where Cam is heading.

 

If you expected a brand new MMO to beat an 8 year, billion dollar backed project, I'd say you entered with unrealistic expectations.

 

 

I like your analogy, however in this case WoW is Cam Newton, since wow had more going on at release.

 

[Limecake]

This game is out about 7 years later than WoW, so the complaint is really justfied.

 

/thread.

 

so if you were an investor who was looking to make money from this game you'd invest an extra couple million dollars in a game that isn't even guarenteed to survive the year just because you wanted the game to be as polished as it could be?

 

Yeah I didn't think so.

[jarjarloves]

man, so much bad information here.

 

wow was released with Onyxia, MC, as 40 man raid content.

 

UBRS/LBRS, strat, scholo were 5 man instances. At release, they didnt "lock" raid groups from entering dungeons, nor did they limit the number of players in the instance.

 

I suspect one of the reasons why was to get to MC< you had to go through LBRS (40 man LBRS > *)

 

Patch 1.3 (March), when they added Dire Maul, they capped players in instances and gave you a way to port to MC.

 

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.3.0

 

Onyxia/Molten Core - 40 members

Blackrock Spire - 15 members

Diremaul - 5 members

All other dungeons in the game will be capped at 10 members

 

Later on, they nerfed strat/scholo considerably and made it 5 man cap.

there you go and still no PVP at all.

 

 

So SWTOR has launched with more End Game content then WoW. With a patch in the first month that will add EVEN MORE END GAME CONTENT

[Striker]

there you go and still no PVP at all.

 

 

So SWTOR has launched with more End Game content then WoW. With a patch in the first month that will add EVEN MORE END GAME CONTENT

 

Right, but they made some errors with leveling speed and commendation gearing? And I really can't say for sure, but it seems gearing is too easy and thus the content is easier to consume. Its both good and bad. Its okay if more content comes rolling out at a Rift like pace. If its as slow as WoW it could lead to people getting bored.

 

People constantly harp on "lack of endgame". But it isn't lacking as much as gearing is too easy. And that leads to beating content quicker.

[Ortonic]

You know, the "lack of end-game" during the launch of a new MMO always frustrates me. A large majority of the ones who are complaining haven't even hit 50, much less stepped foot in Eternity Vault. There's also a large chunk that complain that haven't even beat every flashpoint on hard mode. To be quite honest with you, don't b**** about it if you haven't completed it.

 

It's hard to compare Vanilla's end game content to TOR's for a few reasons. Many of you are throwing in five man's to the "end game" category. I consider actual raiding to be end game, NOT five man content. That's just filler content or dungeons designed to help you reach the raiding content. The second thing is the majority of the Vanilla end game was patched in after release, much like what TOR will probably do.

 

I've also seen a few people talk about how they hit the level cap so much faster in TOR and this bothers them. Remember, your probably a veteran of the MMO genre now. You understand the most efficient way to quest and level, compared to the beginning of WoW where it was new to many of us, including myself. Although I'm not 50, I've leveled at a pace I feel comftorable with because I know the routine now. Not only that, but I'm still not space barring through all the quests. I'm enjoying the content that BioWare worked hard on and quite frankly, it's a great change of pace for me instead of the WoW "accept quest, kill boar, next quest, don't care about the story" feel.

 

Although we really can't track achievements in TOR, I wish I could see a lot of you who are complaining about the end game content and where you stand on completion. I would bet that you haven't completed the end game, so don't cry about it. Otherwise, go back to sitting around SW / Org waiting for the next major content patch to come out because you've already cleared the Deathwing encounter.