Soonerjohn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) These seem interesting. I think the first one will be fun in hutt ball. I don't however see how this will keep us in effective combat range. Pushing the target out and leaping back to them is a wash, not a gain in up time. Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 Edited January 11, 2012 by Soonerjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squelcher Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Let us move while using ravage and all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) DPS Damage is fine eh....hmmmm....*squints eyes* not sure if serious... Seriously though, I think we're ok on damage, Rage spec is a bit lulzy but I Vengeance and don't get those fat smashes. I'm really saddened they think that the "bleeds" in Vengeance tree apparently qualify as acceptable damage dealing. Bleh..oh well. Some love is better than none. I look forward to the push refreshing leap, I have unstoppable which is great but it's not really that big of a help against anyone who isn't an idiot. All they have to do is wait 4 seconds to use a KB/Stun/Mez and now I have nothing to use for the next 11 seconds of Leap CD(Saber Throw used before leaping.) It's not like I'm going to blow anyone up in 4 seconds either. Edited January 11, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) DPS Damage is fine eh....hmmmm....*squints eyes* not sure if serious... Seriously though, I think we're ok on damage, Rage spec is a bit lulzy but I Vengeance and don't get those fat smashes. I'm really saddened they think that the "bleeds" in Vengeance tree apparently qualify as acceptable damage dealing. Bleh..oh well. Some love is better than none. I look forward to the push refreshing leap, I have unstoppable which is great but it's not really that big of a help against anyone who isn't an idiot. All they have to do is wait 4 seconds to use a KB/Stun/Mez and now I have nothing to use for the next 11 seconds of Leap CD(Saber Throw used before leaping.) It's not like I'm going to blow anyone up in 4 seconds either. It's acceptable. Rather see each tree have their own closer. Such as rage getting Oblit with a bit further range. Tank tree getting pull, and vengeance gettingsaber throw refreshing leap, but I'll take this. Edit: Also this was brought up in beta long before release and we were told we were fine... seems we were actually right. Edited January 11, 2012 by Noth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuff Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 These seem interesting. I think the first one will be fun in hutt ball. I don't however see how this will keep us in effective combat range. Pushing the target out and leaping back to them is a wash, not a gain in up time. Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 If they make us more tanky in vengeance that will be a GOD SEND. I'm ok with vengence DPS the problem is I'm less survivable or equal to a marauder but have less dps. I rolled a JUG dps with the idea that my DPS will be lower then the more squish classes but I would make up for it by living a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Rezo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP)Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap DPS spec survivability (PvP and PvE) – The DPS specs on Guardian and Juggernaut are performing to our expectations when it comes to the ability to create damage, especially of the burst variety. However their survivability is lagging behind our expectations, especially in the later game, and we are going to start addressing that particular issue in an upcoming patch. 1) That wont help anything, well, it helps, but... it isnt the true concern, moving is an important matter, i think Immortal tree should have a AoE Force Pull and the cooldown of Force Push should be 20 seconds (as the AoE knockbacks of other clases are all 20 seconds...) 2) That must be a joke... Vengeance tree is just too damn BROKEN, it generates MORE rage than needed and makes LESS damage than needed :/, i dont care about survivality if i cant make enough damage to kill a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinsgate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I thought it was nice that every specific example in that post in terms of class balanced referenced warriors/knights. Gives me hope that they see the issues, although their premise that our damage is acceptable was...disheartening. I'd take a survivability buff, though. Might make me play my level 50 warrior instead of my operative for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don't understand how people have trouble staying in range if they're using Chilling Scream. I mean Gunslingers can KB us and root us and all that, and we can't charge them in cover, but if they couldn't do that, their class would be completely gimp. The fact that we'll be able to move 90m in 4 GCDs seems kinda ridiculous, especially for Huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don't understand how people have trouble staying in range if they're using Chilling Scream. I mean Gunslingers can KB us and root us and all that, and we can't charge them in cover, but if they couldn't do that, their class would be completely gimp. The fact that we'll be able to move 90m in 4 GCDs seems kinda ridiculous, especially for Huttball. You have not played agianst good mercs (good mercs don't sit there and spam tracer missile)and good sorcs(good sorcs have more tools to keep you away than any other class). Against them the 5 meter range of chilling scream means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lymain Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's an 8m radius on Chilling Scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noth Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's an 8m radius on Chilling Scream. Could fool me seeing as I've used it when they are just out of melee range and it not hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonerjohn Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I don't understand how people have trouble staying in range if they're using Chilling Scream. I mean Gunslingers can KB us and root us and all that, and we can't charge them in cover, but if they couldn't do that, their class would be completely gimp. The fact that we'll be able to move 90m in 4 GCDs seems kinda ridiculous, especially for Huttball. Whether it is a problem or not is a moot issue, bioware thinks it is. If it is indeed an issue, I hope they look at some different approaches. It doesn't make sense that in order to give us more uptime on a target, they want to push our target out of range. At the very least, make it saber throw that refreshes it. Edited January 11, 2012 by Soonerjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Unless your Rage spec, once your knocked back you will never get on a decent ranged again if you had to use your charge to get to them in the first place. I play Vengeance and get Unstoppable, I get 4 seconds of free time to do something. First thing I do on landing usually is either Ravage since they can't move or Chilling Scream. Bad ranged blow their KB/Stun on me before my Unstoppable wears off. Good ranged wait for the shield to go away THEN knock me back and slow me because I do believe most if not all ranged have a snare in their arsenal. So yes there I am, snared and knocked back chasing a snared target. I gain no ground. They proceed to whittle at me with instants and dots. I....saber throw? Basically I just flail my arms around in frustration while I wait for leap to come off CD. Chokes range is too short and it's a channel so it's only viable for Immortals to use to stay on a target and Push has a shortish range as well and is only useful if Leap is up anyway. So yes, we are very easily kited by pretty much every class here. Only really bad players get owned by us or at the very least players whos defensive abilities happened to be on CD or were being dogpiled by other people to hold them still for us. Edited January 11, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sointu Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary. Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443 Is this actually planned to come as baseline for every spec? I already feel like Tarzan in huttball as Immortal juggernaut while carrying the ball but this just would make it overkill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 DPS Damage is fine eh....hmmmm....*squints eyes* not sure if serious... Seriously though, I think we're ok on damage, Rage spec is a bit lulzy but I Vengeance and don't get those fat smashes. I'm really saddened they think that the "bleeds" in Vengeance tree apparently qualify as acceptable damage dealing. Bleh..oh well. Some love is better than none. lol, yeah, the bleeds are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omninull Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Is this actually planned to come as baseline for every spec? I already feel like Tarzan in huttball as Immortal juggernaut while carrying the ball but this just would make it overkill How sad would it be if they start balancing this game around huttball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilrota Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi all, Firstly, thank you very much for making this thread Soonerjohn. It's always helpful to point others towards official developer posts, particularly when it is relevant to their specific class. Much appreciated. Secondly, this is a good opportunity to remind everyone about the developer tracker in the forums. We strongly encourage everyone to check out our developer tracker frequently. You'll be able to quickly find posts from the developers regarding all types of important issues, so we encourage everyone to check it often so you can stay up to date. Another good resource is the community blog which highlights important topics and posts as well. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sointu Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How sad would it be if they start balancing this game around huttball? Well, this change wouldn't really be that useful if it's actual gap closer that you're looking for since it requires another enemy to be near for you to push in the first place. PvE uses are almost nonexistent. Still, this would be nice addition to our arsenal in a sort of a way. But if you are that sort of people who likes to force push -> saber throw -> leap for fun then this is nice change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is very good news. The force push change is great as our push has a 10 yard range we can use it out of melee and then jump to target and root. The sustained damage buff is even better news. We are still not terrible but we are lagging a little bit behind in the damage department and tier 2 and 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keimcd Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) So what will happen is that we have to get close enough to the target to Force Push (10 meters), or use it on someone or something else close by. I'm sorry, but I don't get it. Surely a better candidate for a cooldown reset is something like Saber Throw, or even Taunt? Anything with a larger range. Having to get within 10 meters in the first place seems kind of odd if we're already potentially being kited. Am I missing something? Edited January 11, 2012 by Keimcd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khabarach Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Well, this change wouldn't really be that useful if it's actual gap closer that you're looking for since it requires another enemy to be near for you to push in the first place. PvE uses are almost nonexistent. Still, this would be nice addition to our arsenal in a sort of a way.I think I'll find it pretty useful in PvE. There's quite often groups of mobs where one is off to the side. We can now leap to it, push it towards the pack, then leap straight into the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixiooo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If one thing, the bleeds in the vengeance tree could certainly use a buff. As it is now, it's not even worth to invest points in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sointu Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think I'll find it pretty useful in PvE. There's quite often groups of mobs where one is off to the side. We can now leap to it, push it towards the pack, then leap straight into the pack. Heh, I actually thought of the same a bit later while in class, good fact to point out! . I've been doing that without the second leap while tanking tho, but this will make it a bit faster/better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwillburn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ravage should be talented to reduce its channeling time by 1/2 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YuDarvish Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Let us move while using ravage and all will be well. ^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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