_Darkstar Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) You know that's the norm in every MMO from EQ, UO, to WoW, AoC, all the rest, right? Ya, that's completely normal on that and it's intended. Have you played any of those games because it is NOT the way it works there. Edited January 14, 2012 by Paralassa insults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errathe Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Player vs. Environment (PvE) - In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, Player vs. Environment servers serve as the "default." On these servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player- vs.- player fights must be agreed to by both sides. Quoted from the New Player Guide: http://www.swtor.com/info/newplayerguide/chapter-two So, how is 'trick-flagging' or accidental AoE flagging in anyway 'agreed to by both sides'? It does not say PvP may be agreed on by both sides. It says it must be. Therefore, it must be a bug, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 your whole argument is worthless, half of the classes are stealth. Wow, we have sunk to the Pee Wee Herman 'I know you are but what am I?' mud slinging? Worthless huh? This really must be your 1st MMO. This exploit has been around since forever. I was ganked in Wow vanilla this way, in EQ2, in RIFT and a ton of times in WAR. I cursed myself for being sloppy, and mentally applauded the ganker for getting the upper hand. You need to let these things go so they don't get to the point where you are giving yourself an aneurysm because you are hitting nerd rage as a virtual toon is dying a false death. I think it is more damaging to your ego then your playstyle. Welcome to the shared world of MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerda Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I agree with the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurakk Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If this is not a bug it needs to be changed. People should not be forced into PvP on a PvE server either accidentally or any other way. Leaves too many options open to bored griefers with low self esteem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyraele Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Quoted from the New Player Guide: http://www.swtor.com/info/newplayerguide/chapter-two So, how is 'trick-flagging' or accidental AoE flagging in anyway 'agreed to by both sides'? It does not say PvP may be agreed on by both sides. It says it must be. Therefore, it must be a bug, right? Yes, it has to be a bug. I don't see how the current mechanics behave as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApesAmongUs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't understand why people don't like pvp. Don't need to. My parents expressed adequate affection for me as a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errathe Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Don't need to. My parents expressed adequate affection for me as a child. Indeed. Might just as well ask some people why they don't like ice-cream. Might seem weird, but that's just their preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonDs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you see flagged players you should be paying attention and acting appropriately. I see no issue with this. If you start casting AoE's with them around, you're making a bad decision. They're hanging around flagged because they want PvP. If you don't, then don't hit them. Simple. I'm sorry but it's PvP and he's free to flag if he wants to, just as you're free to pay attention to what the heck you're doing and smartly avoid him. If I am on a pve server I expect to not have to deal with gang and gank tactics by griefers purposely trying to effect my gameplay in a negative way. That is what pvp servers are for . Someone forcing me to either allowing them the "pleasure" of ganking me, or gimping myself by not being able to use woe abilities is just wrong and should be a bankable offense. What really angers me about this is that in researching pvp I repeatedly heard that the answer to ganking or grieving was to rally people of your faction to come avenge you. So these people are getting all their gankfest pleasure on pve players with the risk of facing real pvp. Banthem ban them ban them them After making the banning policy clear devs please fix this by allowing me to shut off any chance of unwanted pvp on a pve server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monjiay Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would assume the same thing would happen as it did in Rift, as I buffed a friend who was not in group with me as we stood around a quest giver. A level 36 came over in PVP mode and we were in our teens, was taunting everyone to attack, the NPCs basically ignored him. We all did laugh emotes at him, but my guild mate said he was going to attack in vent. I said knock yourself out. Again, remember, we were not in group, but he had a buff from me. He attacked, I went PVP instantly. WHAT!?!?! So it does happen in other MMOs, Rift especially. You're wrong. There is an option in Rift that will keep you from auto-flagging. Unfortunately it is not on by default and you have to change it, but once set, you cannot heal a friend if he is flagged and you are not. You just get an error message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, we have sunk to the Pee Wee Herman 'I know you are but what am I?' mud slinging? Worthless huh? This really must be your 1st MMO. This exploit has been around since forever. I was ganked in Wow vanilla this way, in EQ2, in RIFT and a ton of times in WAR. I cursed myself for being sloppy, and mentally applauded the ganker for getting the upper hand. You need to let these things go so they don't get to the point where you are giving yourself an aneurysm because you are hitting nerd rage as a virtual toon is dying a false death. I think it is more damaging to your ego then your playstyle. Welcome to the shared world of MMOs. Again your whole argument is worthless because this time you mention Rift. Guess what, since Rift on release day, you can not be flagged for using an AOE while unflagged if a flagged player gets into it. Nice try, but that makes everything else you just said worthless. And no, it is not my first MMO, WoW was about 1 year after it released And I really don't care if there were other MMO that that flagged you for using the AOE, it shouldn't matter. Why? because there are other MMOs that don't flag you, like WoW, Rift, Aion, and some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balraw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would suggest that everyone reads this (specifically the uinderlined part): Does The Old Republic offer different server types that emphasize different styles of game play? Yes. Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ will offer different server types that emphasize the following styles of game play: Player-vs-Environment (PvE) On Player-vs-Environment servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player-vs-player fights must be agreed to by both sides or conducted in PvP-designated areas. Player-vs-Player (PvP) On these servers, players from the opposing faction can attack you at almost any time and almost any place. Role-Playing, Player-vs-Environment (RP) Players are encouraged to always interact “in character” on RP servers, and players of opposing factions may only battle each other in designated instanced areas on RP-PvE servers. Role-Playing ,Player-vs-Player (RP-PvP) Players are encouraged to always interact “in character,” and players of opposing factions may battle each other in the open worlds on RP-PvP servers. NOTE: Role-Playing is encouraged, but not required, on Role Playing servers. Source It is clear that what Bioware expect to happen on PVE/PVE-RP is not happening and people are using an exploit to by pass what Bioware intend (same as some people did on Illium.) If you get caught by this issue in any way shape or form I would strongly suggest you report the player who did it for exploiting and link the support page in your ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotByBothSides Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It should not be possible to get into PvP mode by any way other than volunteering to do so on a PvE server. Players who want to play PvE often want to have nothing to do with PvP and to force it on them seems wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frigidman Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 "So four of us were in a group on a pve server, all flagged for PvP on tatooine. I was the Shadow, cloaked, and standing nearby some general NPC's that we knew empire had to kill for one of their missions. The three others, standing with their proud Yellow Nametags, stood away from the NPC zone watching. Me, I stood nearby the NPC's, as they would not spot me, they were low level. Low n behold, an empire dou with a blue nametags come hopping along minding their own business to do their simple little mission. They open up on the trio of NPCs with ... yup ... an AOE attack which also 'splashes' over onto me. BAM, the poor saps are now flagged for PvP, and the whole gang flies in and ganks em to no end." Gotta love PvE servers with these PvP dynamics huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. Even WoW fixed it where you can't get flagged from AoEs, the AoEs just fail to do damage against a flagged player when you're flagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monjiay Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) So to sum up the thread so far: 1. An exploit has been found on PvE servers that allows stealthed players to flag you for PvP which is clearly not the intended mechanic as stated by Bioware. 2. Players admit to (and brag about) using the exploit. 3. PvP people come in calling everyone names and acting like everyone should want to PvP or there's something wrong with them. 4. PvP People come in saying other games are designed this way and people repeatedly point out that Wow, Aion and Rift have mechanics in place preventing this behavior. 5. PvP people still in thread insisting that they know more about PvE than the PvE players. Now back to the thread currently in progress, but you can stop reading because you'll only be re-reading the five points above. Edited January 13, 2012 by monjiay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinKor Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Do you know what the difference is between a player and a NPC mob? NPC mobs don't hop around in circles like a Duracell bunny on acid.. Seriously, do people still exist that believe playing one version of a video game makes them better than others? Throw-backs like him apparently do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhah Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There should be nothing that automatically flags you for PVP on a PVE server. If I wanted PVP I would do it voluntarily or move to a PVP server. Healing or rezing someone should not automatically flag you for PVP. If they are PVP flagged then you should not be able to heal them or rez them unless you are also PVP flagged to prevent exploits. That way the knuckleheads that come to a PVE mission group while they are PVP flagged would just die and not ruin it for the rest of the group who just want to run missions. AoE's should not damage PVP flagged players unless you are also PVP flagged, this will be a big green light for griefers if it is not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghettogenius Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This actually brightens my day a bit. Not because some players are not appreciating the PvP mechanics, but that this option is available for others. Personally I think the game is far too safe. You can basically avoid entire areas of mobs without being stealthed, almost never having to watch your back. Ive found it to be kinda boring. In fact I rolled PvE first to avoid getting ganked at low lvls only to find you pretty much wont come across anyone until 20+ anyways and by that time you can kinda take care of yourself. Also found out I liked the PvP here much better than I would thought, so Im left wanting for PvP encounters in a PvE world (until transfers are made available i guess). I began running around flagged to see what would happen. Days passed and I never crossed anyone else who was flagged on Tat. Outlaws Den was empty. Seeing republic toons and not being able to attack kinda got to me over time. At this point I would welcome a shadow to creep up and get the drop on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monjiay Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There should be nothing that automatically flags you for PVP on a PVE server. If I wanted PVP I would do it voluntarily or move to a PVP server. Healing or rezing someone should not automatically flag you for PVP. If they are PVP flagged then you should not be able to heal them or rez them unless you are also PVP flagged to prevent exploits. That way the knuckleheads that come to a PVE mission group while they are PVP flagged would just die and not ruin it for the rest of the group who just want to run missions. AoE's should not damage PVP flagged players unless you are also PVP flagged, this will be a big green light for griefers if it is not changed. We've already seen multiple posts in this thread bragging about using this exploit and it will get MUCH worse as people hit 50 and run out of things to do and start gank fests on PvE servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattieP Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Scenario. Your at 50% health, and you AOE'ing 4-5 mobs around you. A PVP flagged person runs into your aoe on purpose, to auto flagged you, then kills you cause you are at 50% heath with 4-5 mobs on you. I'm all for PVP, but not when it's done like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razhah Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This actually brightens my day a bit. Not because some players are not appreciating the PvP mechanics, but that this option is available for others. Personally I think the game is far too safe. You can basically avoid entire areas of mobs without being stealthed, almost never having to watch your back. Ive found it to be kinda boring. In fact I rolled PvE first to avoid getting ganked at low lvls only to find you pretty much wont come across anyone until 20+ anyways and by that time you can kinda take care of yourself. Also found out I liked the PvP here much better than I would thought, so Im left wanting for PvP encounters in a PvE world (until transfers are made available i guess). I began running around flagged to see what would happen. Days passed and I never crossed anyone else who was flagged on Tat. Outlaws Den was empty. Seeing republic toons and not being able to attack kinda got to me over time. At this point I would welcome a shadow to creep up and get the drop on me. You could have also rolled on a PVP server where people are...I dunno....looking for PVP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) What I find funny is that when someone complains about PvP on a PvP server, what do the PvPers say 'Go to a PvE server'. But when someone complains about PvP on a PvE server, what do the PvPers say? "Every MMO does that, quit crying you carebear and grow a pair, or quit playing MMOs" To the PvPers, if you want to participate in PvP, then go to a PvP server. Grow a pair and head over to the PvP server, instead of using an exploit to easy mode PvP. Edited January 13, 2012 by Wolfeisberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aepervius Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't understand why people don't like pvp. I mean come on. grow a pair. lol just saw the no open world pvp on pve servers. Wth is illum for then Firstly some of us never had a pair to begin with. Reflect upon this : 50% of the population aren't male. Secondly in case you are serious and not trolling : there is a reason in multiplayer game even FPS there are Deathmatch mode and COOP mode. They both fulfill different market. Different taste. If you can't accept or understand that people have different taste then tehre won#t be anyway to help you, and this has nothing to do with an absurd idea of courage you have (what sort of courage does it takes anyway to be killed or kill an *ELECTRONIC* toon ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealDestian Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead WoW? I'm pretty sure you don't flag unless you target that enemy or manually flag yourself. Otherwise, it's a fantastic griefing tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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