rabidchyld Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Has anyone been flagged for PVP just from entering an area? That happened to me last night on my class quest on Alderaan. I know there was no way that I could have accidentally done some sort of AOE because I was on my speeder at the time, but when I entered the area of my class quest I was suddenly flagged. Thankfully it wasn't an issue last night, but I certainly did not choose to be flagged and I really don't want to be just for entering my class quest area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blynks Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have done this plenty of times. I find it to be cheap, but pretty funny. I will go stealth into a pack of lower level mobs and wait for a republic player to attack because you know they will aoe. Once they do they die. Is it cheap? Of course. Is it funny? Oh yes. Should it be fixed? Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJediCouncil Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, I swore I'd never be "one of those guys" but, carebear more please? Come on. Just be more careful and don't ask for devs to waste time on this because you cant be bothered to pay attention to what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racheakt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. Um .... Most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyraele Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Make it so that your heals and buffs won't work on the player, or that you will be flagged if you perform any such action on a friendly. Problem solved. This already happens. I got flagged for PvP healing a flagged player. AoEs need to be fixed to not work on any opposite faction unless you are flagged OR you directly target that player. Otherwise, you either have to flag yourself or do direct damage to get flagged, then allow AoEs to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. Wrong. They fixed it in WoW a long time ago. Back in WotLK. Another game I played, can't recall which, your name would turn yellow or something and blink, alerting others that you were flagging for PvP soon. It wasn't instant. BioWare pumped this game up, telling us we would be heroes, fighting multiple mobs. Lots of them. They gave us lots of AoE abilities. They also gave half the classes stealth! All a level 50 has to do is stealth into a group of level 30 mobs and wait for the AoE. Instant gank fest on a PvE server. BioWare has failed PvE players. Edited January 13, 2012 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, I swore I'd never be "one of those guys" but, carebear more please? Come on. Just be more careful and don't ask for devs to waste time on this because you cant be bothered to pay attention to what you are doing. When you're on a PvE server, you should not need to worry about engaging in involuntary PvP. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeleena Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. Rift to name one. Nice try being smart, but you failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelVenturi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not all games work this way. In CoH, your hero can play in co-op zones alongside villains, even team with them, without being flagged for PvP. I've never had to worry about AoEs in those cases. You have to go into a PvP zone to be flagged. I hope this is going to be fixed or changed. I'd like to see an official answer. I play on a PvE server because I have zero interest in PvP. If this is working as intended, fair enough, time for me to move on, but I'd like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balraw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 About the healing thingy... Imagine your friend fighting an enemy and you just walk in and start healing him without your pvp flag being turned on. An enemy can't attack you and he can't even kill the guy he was fighting with because you are healing him. PVP system is just fine, people will whine about anything Taken from Swtors own support page of server types: Player-vs-Environment (PvE) On Player-vs-Environment servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player-vs-player fights must be agreed to by both sides or conducted in PvP-designated areas. This is clearly not the case as in the case of AOE flagging people are using a broken mechanic to flag people who have no interest in PvP'ing. To me this is on par with exploiting that went on in Illium as people are using an exploit/broken mechanic to gain an advantage over other players in this case for of easy valour. I have been caught by this AOE trap a couple of times and in both cases reported the player for using an exploit. I don't expect anything to come of it but it is how I feel about this issue. Oh and as for your little what if scenario the healer shouldn't be able to heal their friend until they specifically flag for PvP and have at it. (this is how it worked in rift and also in other mmo's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This already happens. I got flagged for PvP healing a flagged player. AoEs need to be fixed to not work on any opposite faction unless you are flagged OR you directly target that player. Otherwise, you either have to flag yourself or do direct damage to get flagged, then allow AoEs to work. Precisely... I agree fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeleena Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Only after lots of QQ did they give in to that (dumb move IMO). The game was not originally designed that way. Wrong, that feature was in there from Day one of release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Nobody should be able to attack another player unless both people are flagged to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) This has been around forever.You see a player of the opposing faction with a yellow name, he is set to PVP.You are not. But it happened in Warhammer and WOW, you may be fighting an NPC mob and use and area attack. And they are standing close enough to get hit by it, most likely on purpose to grief you. It's just something you will have to be careful of. In WAR, they could help an NPC and when you attacked the NPC they became red and could start pounding on you. Edited January 13, 2012 by Fraxture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaPyro Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you see flagged players you should be paying attention and acting appropriately. I see no issue with this. If you start casting AoE's with them around, you're making a bad decision. They're hanging around flagged because they want PvP. If you don't, then don't hit them. Simple. I'm sorry but it's PvP and he's free to flag if he wants to, just as you're free to pay attention to what the heck you're doing and smartly avoid him. and those who are flagged but stealthed so they cant be seen? your argument is a fail, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 About the healing thingy... Imagine your friend fighting an enemy and you just walk in and start healing him without your pvp flag being turned on. An enemy can't attack you and he can't even kill the guy he was fighting with because you are healing him. PVP system is just fine, people will whine about anything as of right now, I cant put guard on a player, or have my party buff work on them if they are PvP flagged and I am not, so this mechanic can carry over with healing as well if it already is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This has been around forever. You see a player of the opposing faction with a yellow name, he is set to PVP. You are not. But it happened in Warhammer and WOW, you may be fighting an NPC mob and use and area attack. And they are standing close enough to get hit by it, most likely on purpose to grief you. It's just something you will have to be careful of. In WAR, they could help an NPC and when you attacked the NPC they became read and could start pounding on you. That's the entire point - you should not have to be careful of that. People who roll on a PvE server either a) Don't like PvP or b) Don't like non-consensual PvP. When a loophole exists that allows non-consensual PvP, it should be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balraw Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This has been around forever. You see a player of the opposing faction with a yellow name, he is set to PVP. You are not. But it happened in Warhammer and WOW, you may be fighting an NPC mob and use and area attack. And they are standing close enough to get hit by it, most likely on purpose to grief you. It's just something you will have to be careful of. In WAR, they could help an NPC and when you attacked the NPC they became read and could start pounding on you. Both times I have been caught by this was by stealth players walking into my AOE. No way to avoid it and no warning. Also why on earth on a PvE server should I have to worry about accidentally flagging for PvP. The main reason for going to a PvE server was to avoid this sort of problem so why should I modify my play style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 care bears.... and we proudly wear that badge. Sorry if you were trying to use that as an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenixoverlord Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Technically, "corpse-camping" is not considered griefing. If you were somehow forced into PvP, that could be considered griefing, but the fact that they continued to attack you repeatedly, even after saying you weren't interested in PvP, is not griefing...because you were flagged for PvP. I definitely agree, though, that the flag tooltip could use more useful information, and how to clear the flag could be much better explained. On the plus side, the current mechanism has been beneficial to me at stopping a particular level 12 bitter in Ilum who, for some reason, is flagged...and since the bot never rests, he never loses the flag Okay, If I voluntarily went into PvP I'd have nothing to complain about. I fully agree with you, however in this case I did NOT initiate PvP. We wanted nothing to do with it. Having just finished a fight a few seconds previous with NPCs, we got healed by my companion and somehow the Imps got in the AoE. And that gives someone license to PvP? That's totally absurd. Furthermore I completely disagree with your statement that it isn't griefing. Crux of the issue is that the flagging shouldn't have happened in the first place of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necrolepsy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Name an MMO where catching an enemy player in an AoE, even if you were targeting an enemy with it first, does not throw you into PvP mode. Go ahead. That's just how it works. If they're flagged, anyone and anything can and will do damage to them. If you do damage to someone, you become flagged. WoW for example edit: Just giving an example, don't rage at me if you're a fanboy. I play SWTOR over WoW anyday anyway... Edited January 13, 2012 by Necrolepsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Every mechanic in MMO's exist for a reason, and very often it's because in other games the system was different and got exploited like crazy until it was changed. An excellent example of this is getting flagged for healing a flagged player. It just has to be that way, otherwise you will see players running around with heal-bots and those heal-bots will never flag or even attempt to attack another player, but still affect the outcome of fights. In Lineage 2 you had guilds build around bringing 1 or 2 power-levelled guys to a fight, each of them with 3 or 4 healers spamming heals on them constantly and making them literally unkillable. You couldn't kill the healers because they weren't flagged, and you couldn't kill the flagged players because they were getting hit with a constant stream of heals. AoE is the same way. If you didn't flag for throwing down AoE you could enter fights throwing out nothing but AoE and affect the outcome of those fights without taking any risk to yourself. And the devs can't make flagged player immune to your attacks, otherwise the only way to attack a flagged player would be for you to first flag, then attack. It would be pretty stupid to have a mechanic where, if someone's attacking your buddy, you first have to say "hold on, l gotta flag before I can help you out, hold on... oh nm you're dead already." Try being aware of what's going on around you so you don't "accidently" flag. Edited January 13, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigOrion Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 TOR devs don't know the difference between PvP and PvE. Yet another reason (of many) not to play this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, I swore I'd never be "one of those guys" but, carebear more please? Come on. Just be more careful and don't ask for devs to waste time on this because you cant be bothered to pay attention to what you are doing. We chose PvE servers to specifically not to get into PvP or have PvP effect our gaming. Having to be careful while questing because of PvP defeats the purpose of PvE servers. Sorry, you are in the wrong, and we are in the right. We are asking the developers to devote time to something that is important for our enjoyment of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraxture Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) That's the entire point - you should not have to be careful of that. People who roll on a PvE server either a) Don't like PvP or b) Don't like non-consensual PvP. When a loophole exists that allows non-consensual PvP, it should be closed. I know, but it is open to grief the other way. You have a buddy in your group who decides to attack the yellow player. So all of you who did not choose to do so can still stay blue and not turn green? Does he get to keep all the buffs that were applied to him for being near you or in the party? That would be a programming nightmare to compensate for every possible variable that would need to turn off or on (like all of his buffs and he is automatically kicked from group) the moment he attacked. It would be just easier and common sense to say everyone in that group is now flagged for PVP so the victim cannot be griefed in such a fashion. It's a game, and you suffer less being killed in it then you do in real life. So do you refuse to go to the store because that chance you will die in a car accident or get mugged and shot is there? No, you go off to enjoy your life without being paralyzed by those fears...I hope. This is a game, and it's easy to avoid. I know, I do it all the time in every MMO I play. Not rocket Surgery or Brain Science. Edited January 13, 2012 by Fraxture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts