MorgonKara Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) On Horde, we called it Bluewalling. To us, a lot of Alliance did this. Very aggravating. However, Bluewalling was when a non-PVP flagged player attacked a PVP flagged player without flagging first. It was an intentional move, not unintentional. I am 100% with the OP. I find it highly intrusive to be on my own merry way, enjoying the game that I have every right to and accidentally hit another player who is PVP flagged. When I want to PVP, I queue up for Warzones. When I don't want to PVP I should not be forced in to it by unintentional actions, or the actions of others. Yeah I got ganked on Nar Shaddaa once because I didn't realize that's how it worked in this game. For starters I was flagged PvP without even realizing it (I must have buffed a flagged player or something). I'm minding my own business doing some PvE when these two Republic players roll up, un-flagged, and one challenges me to duel. Halfway through the duel (which I was winning BTW ) the second guy jumps in from behind and starts wailing on me with his most powerful attacks and CC. Before I realized what was happening I was dead. Now if all three of us had been intentionally flagged for PvP and that happened, c'est la vie -that's PvP. But the fact that these guys were rolling covert and were able to double team me out of the blue like that is garbage, IMHO. Edited January 10, 2012 by MorgonKara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 this shouldn't happen. also, it's pretty pathetic to roll on a PVE server, only to flag yourself and grief people in this manner. while it would be admittedly hilarious for the first few times, given the fact that world pvp is meaningless, it would get boring quick. then you are stuck with a character on a server in which you have to flag yourself to fight. bunch of nerfherders. tldr: play on a pvp server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibdy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" design decisions. They could do it one of two ways, but whichever one they pick, its going to irritate some people. There's always the situation where someone stumbles on a group of players fighting, and wants to help out. The auto-PvP flag system is there to allow you to jump in, without having to dick around with enabling your flag first. The alternative is not to auto-flag you, and you're unable to heal/attack anyone until you explicitly enable it. However, many people roll on PvE servers with the express intent of not getting involved in open world conflict with other players. So, I think having to explicitly enable the flag to jump into combat is much less irritating to the broader playerbase than PvE players getting flagged for combat unintentionally. Edited January 11, 2012 by Bibdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringzero Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Yeah I got ganked on Nar Shaddaa once because I didn't realize that's how it worked in this game. For starters I was flagged PvP without even realizing it (I must have buffed a flagged player or something). I'm minding my own business doing some PvE when these two Republic players roll up, un-flagged, and one challenges me to duel. Halfway through the duel (which I was winning BTW ) the second guy jumps in from behind and starts wailing on me with his most powerful attacks and CC. Before I realized what was happening I was dead. Now if all three of us had been intentionally flagged for PvP and that happened, c'est la vie -that's PvP. But the fact that these guys were rolling covert and were able to double team me out of the blue like that is garbage, IMHO. This happened in WoW all the time. You probably weren't flagged before. Some guy challenges you to a duel, then lets you wail on him boosting your confidence. Then he flags PVP in the middle of the duel. You hit him, BAM, now you're flagged, and his friend joins in the spanking. Don't duel cross-faction, especially if the other guy has a friend or two with him. Edited January 11, 2012 by Ringzero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) This happened in WoW all the time. You probably weren't flagged before. Some guy challenges you to a duel, then lets you wail on him boosting your confidence. Then he flags PVP in the middle of the duel. You hit him, BAM, now you're flagged, and his friend joins in the spanking. Don't duel cross-faction, especially if the other guy has a friend or two with him. Yeah I know that now. I never played WoW. I like Star Wars and I used to play SWG but I was never into Warcraft. People bash SWG but it had some great open world PvP and the ruleset for all the servers was basically PvE with voluntary flagging. I like PvP but I like to be ready for it. I'm not into random open world ganking, I like coordinated battles. That's why I rolled on a PvE server. This is especially bad for players that have no interest in PvP and trust me there are a lot of them. I mean, if you're ganking people playing on a PvE server, because they clearly have no interest in PvPing, that is lame x1000. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. If someone wants open world PvP ganking they should go roll on a PvP server or play overt all the time. But they don't, they are too scared to roll around overt and only flag if they can use it to gank someone and then they run back to their base and un-flag again. Weak. That's not PvP competition. Forcing people that are playing on a PvE server to flag for PvP in order to gank them isn't PvP as far as I'm concerned, it's griefing. Bioware needs to fix it. Edited January 11, 2012 by MorgonKara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgonKara Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" design decisions. They could do it one of two ways, but whichever one they pick, its going to irritate some people. There's always the situation where someone stumbles on a group of players fighting, and wants to help out. The auto-PvP flag system is there to allow you to jump in, without having to dick around with enabling your flag first. The alternative is not to auto-flag you, and you're unable to heal/attack anyone until you explicitly enable it. However, many people roll on PvE servers with the express intent of not getting involved in open world conflict with other players. So, I think having to explicitly enable the flag to jump into combat is much less irritating to the broader playerbase than PvE players getting flagged for combat unintentionally. How hard is it to type /flag ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Darkstar Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 How hard is it to type /flag ? Sadly much easier than unflagging which involves a trip to a cantina and a 5 minute afk period!!! Or because the help files dont mention a cantina it involved me spending 5 minutes not fighting in a safe zone, then a while asking questions of guildies, and then 5 minutes afk in the damn cantina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Darkstar Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" design decisions. They could do it one of two ways, but whichever one they pick, its going to irritate some people. There's always the situation where someone stumbles on a group of players fighting, and wants to help out. The auto-PvP flag system is there to allow you to jump in, without having to dick around with enabling your flag first. The alternative is not to auto-flag you, and you're unable to heal/attack anyone until you explicitly enable it. Enabling PvP in instant, getting out of the mode isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's an incredibly stupid design and no amount of justification will make it otherwise. The OP doesn't want to participate in PvP so they rolled on a PvP server, they shouldn't be forced into PvP because someone purposefully walked into their AoE. I'm pretty sure WoW doesn't do this anymore either if you want another game who doesn't do it. WoW does have a name for people who like to use the autoflag mechanic to jump people though, I can't think of the name of it but it's a very lame mechanic. It ensures that you can always get the first shot off. Participating in PvP on a PvE server should require flagging first. Plain and simple. I fully agree with you. I'm on an RPPvE server because I don't want to PvP, at least not when I'm questing. I don't want players exploiting my AoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I haven't had this problem yet and i really don't want to have to fight other players while i'm questing, another thing that annoys me is that i once got flagged for PvP when i healed a group member during a flashpoint which makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balraw Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have run into this issue too and it is an obnoxious mechanic for a player that specifically rolls on a PvE server and has little interest in PvP. Nothing short of specifically enabling the PvP flag should drop you into that mode and clearly this is not the case. I think this is something that Bioware needs to look at quickly and enable a fix to prevent this situation occurring. Now roll on all the PvP people coming in with the witty carebear comments etc etc pve carebears oh look too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakual Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 In my opinion, on a PvE server there should be no open PvP at all. No flagging for PvP and no accidentally being flagged for it. Also walking into a republic sector shouldn't flag you. Players who choose to not PvP (and thus play on a PvE server) should not be forced to use certain strategies to avoid it. You should be able to play like PvP would not exist at all if you want that. Hitting a flagged player or walking in a wrong spot which puts you into PvP mode is a bad idea in this case. It opens a lot of possibilities for griefing players. I also don't understand why we can't speak/trade/group with the other faction on a PvE server, but that's another topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soazak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 So what is the difference between a PvE and PvP server? Other than the fact that you don't run into enemies on a PvP server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandsonOfSam Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just adding my own opinion on this "feature"... First off the facts. You get flagged for PvP if you do the following to another player that is already flagged (feel free to add if I have forgetten a way): 1. Buffing. 2. Healing. 3. Attacking. Directly or AOE. 4. Rezzing. 1. I tend to buff everybody I run across, and even having to wait till they are out of combat is annoying. Getting flagged for PvP for it is just wrong. 2. I play a healer, so I heal. If I see someone getting slaughtered, I WILL heal them. 3. Getting flagged for directly attacking a player flagged for PvP is logical, even though it shouldn't be possible if you are not flagged yourself. Hitting them accidentally with an AOE that you have no idea they will be hit by, because they are stealthed is something that should happen ONLY when both players are flagged. 4. Now, rezzing a flagged player is something you will do by accident as there is no way of knowing beforehand. You also get flagged even if the other player doesn't accept the rez. I know this for a fact as I have been flagged for being a good samaritan. If I play on a PVE server, I expect to be fighting mobs instead of players. It's all fine and ok if people would need to intentionally flag for PvP to participate to it in any way, but force-flagging is completely wrong. I can't heal mobs, so why should I be able to heal another player that on all counts is effectively a mob with (well, sometimes) a better AI? 99% of the players that run around on PvE servers flagged for PvP are horribly bad in PvP in any case. Why else would they intentionally only fight people that have no experience in PvP at all? (I left the 1% there only to not sound nasty... ;-P) Just to clear things out: I have played PvP in the past, but if I want to PvP, I will go and do it with people that can actually fight back. There is no glory in killing the helpless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedius Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Plenty of *******es about that deliberately try to get your flagged for PvP when you're AoE'ing mobs... This seriously needs to change cause they're bloody exploiting the fact you're minding your own business AoE'ing mobs... Edit - over sensitive censor to the rescue! Edited January 11, 2012 by Daedius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donk Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 i agree with the op this should not happen on a pve server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deusBAAL Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There are several ways to get PVP flagged against your will. Getting flagged by a groupmember or by buffing a flagged target is just annoying. Getting flagged by attacking an enemy flagged player ist just BS. You should not eb able to target him in teh first place if you are not already flagged, period. Getting flagged by unintentinally AOEing camoed enemy players is an open invite for grief players. THIS IS TOTAL BS! There should be no way whatsoever that someone else can PVP flag you against your explicit will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crassius Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Flagged players running into other's AoE to get THEM flagged, and then surprise-kill them. That sounds like totally something that should happen on a PVE server. After all, PvP on a PvE server "must be consensual and in designated areas of the world." (quote from in-game server description) Oh, wait.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Darkstar Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would love to see something official on how they want this to be. If they plan on changing it but its low on the list I will accept that, if they never plan on changing it then I might reconsider liking this game. I would also love for this thread to be moved to the right place (IE: Where it was before an over eager mod moved it within minutes of me posting it). I do like the suggestions that you shouldn't be able to target enemy players. As for friendly players if they are flagged for PvP your buffs etc should simply not work on them imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkibus Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Getting flagged by attacking an enemy flagged player ist just BS. You should not eb able to target him in teh first place if you are not already flagged, period. Getting flagged by unintentinally AOEing camoed enemy players is an open invite for grief players. THIS IS TOTAL BS! There should be no way whatsoever that someone else can PVP flag you against your explicit will. QFT This ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havokk Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If I play on a PVE server, I expect to be fighting mobs instead of players. That sentence summarises all my feelings on PvP combat on a PvE ruleset server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shama Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I do like the suggestions that you shouldn't be able to target enemy players. As for friendly players if they are flagged for PvP your buffs etc should simply not work on them imho. Even just a dialogue that pops up and says "You can't do this unless you are flagged for PvP. Type /flag to enable PvP" if you try and do something that currently automatically flips you would be nice. Then you'd know what you'd done and you'd get feedback rather than just having nothing happen. i.e. - trying to res/heal/buff a PvP friendly - trying to directly attack a PvP enemy AoE should *never* thrown you into PvP and so should never damage a PvP enemy, unless you are PvP already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghard Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I also don't understand why we can't speak/trade/group with the other faction on a PvE server, but that's another topic. You can speak to the enemy in /say they understand galactic basic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amote Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This happened to me while I was fighting a Champ on Hoth. As a tank, I was up close and personal with him when I see a little Jawa run up and punch him in the middle of my aoe attack. Not knowing class companions, I was happy that someone was willing to make my fight a little easier even though they wouldn't get credit (other than a thank-you). That is, until I noticed that my attacks were hurting the little jerk, followed by a rain of blaster fire and bombs that fell down on me from behind. I was able to kill and loot the boss milliseconds before I was brought down myself. If the player had killed me before that, I would have been really upset to say the least. Nevertheless, it was still very frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aepervius Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If it was done to me I would simply report the player for what it is : griefing. On a PVE server forcing the player to do pvp is just that. As for the "carebear" two word comment... It reflect much more poorly on your mindset that you are unable to comprehend that not everybody find what you do is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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