Neutral or Grey alignment...

[Gargion]

One scenario which I don't think has been addressed is the concept of redemption or falling. I think that anyone who changes their morality from convo to convo is a waffler, but what about going halfway through your class story and having a change of heart? Going from 4000/0 to 4000/4000 with a neutral alignment. That's not waffling, and it's completely justified from a SW lore perspective.

 

Its not that we change our moral code from convo to convo. It's that kiling in the SW Universe is invariably wrong, and sometimes we like someone so we let them live, and other times they annoy the hell out of us so we kill them. I don't see how this is a change of moral code. The moral code (Annoying/Jerkish = Kill, Cool/Useful/Interesting = Spare) doesn't change.

 

Just as I will not kill an innocent civilian; however, if somebody messed with my master, I'll put a saber through them. People like me just play the game and respond as they would in a RL situation because we get emotionally attached or repulsed by certain characters, and as in the real world, we act accordingly to our feelings for a person. Someone who responds with all natural answers and ends up Light-side aligned is a saint IRL.

 

 

EDIT: PS: Is waffler supposed to be derogatory? Because I like waffles.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Gargion

[Undreamtkid]

Its not that we change our moral code from convo to convo. It's that kiling in the SW Universe is invariably wrong, and sometimes we like someone so we let them live, and other times they annoy the hell out of us so we kill them. I don't see how this is a change of moral code. The moral code (Annoying/Jerkish = Kill, Cool/Useful/Interesting = Spare) doesn't change.

 

This 100x.

[Restepor]

I believe they said that there'd be neutral content 'soon' which in dev speak can mean anything from a month to a year.

I heard this too, but no exact date as of right now.

[Undreamtkid]

Can anyone link a post? I heard it months ago pre-launch, but nothing since I was in beta or as of now.

[ApesAmongUs]

The whole point of SW is that everyone has to take a stand, whether it be for Light or Dark. Even Han Solo made the jump from Neutral to Light. Going down the Dark or Light path is the point of the game, I don't really see why you should expect special awards for being a waffler and not taking a stand.

I did take a stand. I'm pro empire, but anti the excessive influence of the stupid sith force users.

 

No waffling involved.

[Letsplayrift]

why don't they just make a button when you roll your character that says light or dark, since you are intended to pick all dark or all light

 

i grind from light V to dark V and I don't get anything except I can use both mounts

[The_Old_One]

I think neutral should be able to use both dark and light gears.

[Undreamtkid]

I want to bump this and see if anyone has new info about this... I want to play and rp out a Grey Jedi without the hindering myself with gear.

[Zeden]

Another bump here.

I'm not an MMO kind of guy but loved the original KOTOR games, mostly for their thought provoking plot. After seeing the promise of a grey path and content that would lead on and finish up unfinished plot threads from the first two games I stumped up for this along with two other friends.

Aside from the all too brief Revanite content, something my little group all enjoyed and felt harked back to the more meaningful conversations of other Bioware games, and the promise of HK-47 and some Revan related plot in a late game flash point I'm completely underwhelmed by every aspect of the plot I've seen so far and the complete and utter lack of options should you choose to be neutral.

Here's an idea for a simple neutral level up system, make the requirement for neutral levels an equal amount of light and dark points or close to equal. If a player leans too far light or dark they'll end up outside the catchment to be classed as a grey character nor will they fall into light or darkness.

I've found sticking to the kind of thinking mentioned earlier (kill the killers and ******es, spare the innocent and useful) has kept me in the middle without even having to watch what I'm saying so it's hard not to think that this was an intended marriage of gameplay and conversation choices carried from design to the full game.

Grey equipment was promised, opportunity to walk the grey path with content geared towards it was highlighted and it's not here unless the single Revanite questline was the sum total of it.

I bought the game on these promises and Bioware have not delivered so an update would be nice. It's not going to stop me playing, finishing the bulk of the content with my friends is the end point, but it has made me doubt Bioware's integrity when it comes to making promises and following through with them honestly. If this content isn't coming for any reason they should pipe up.

 

Here's a pre-emptive retort for the "be quiet, stop complaining" type forum posters, because I know this thread's already had a few.

This is a public forum made to discuss all aspects of the game. Promises were made and are now being forgotten, it's reasonable to ask a salesman why he lied in his pitch if it's what made you buy the product. In spite of what you might think if you disagree, the build up and release of information by developers is most definitely part of the sales pitch in gaming and as consumers we ought to expect some integrity from those we give out cash to.

You might not care but if that's the case no one posting here in agreement cares about what you think either. You've nothing to add so shhh.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Zeden
mistyped word or two

[Cestral]

So people who play on rp servers shouldn't make decisions based on what options they have in front of them.... But what items they should get?

 

One of many stupid design decisions ..and I'm getting sick of... "Something we will add / fix later".....they must have at least 200 things on there to do list..

 

Though this is not game breaking and not the worst of the games problems.... For a game developer to boast about story and personal character development .... Only to destroy that notion by only creating armour that is light or dark only is pretty stupid....I've found myself pressing dark on everything... Even tho in some cases I did not want to at all

 

This.

[Bobinator]

Just be lucky Bioware cant do DLC on mmos...but they'll find a way im sure.

[crudedragos]

Enough said, I played in beta, was told time and time again that we would get something... Well a few weeks after launch, I seem to gimping myself by being Neutral... I can't use ANY relics, I can't get most weapons from venders (Most need to be Light or Dark.) So by playing the way I want and was told I can do without gimping, I have gimped myself. I have lesser stats from no relics or any alignment gear...

 

So Bioware, when can I expect to get some Neutral gear? Or even Neutral colour crystals? Anything? You said we would have stuff, well... We are still waiting.

 

With relics, your up **** creek till 50, then alignment doesn't matter as your rocking either the PVP or PVE relic. The other slot is your Matrix Cube, which you can get at several levels (15,24,32,50). It's unfair as MC requires more work but there is essentially an in game work around so it's understandably lower on the totem poll of issues/features they want to implement.

[Scarvo]

Being encouraged not to play neutral or near neutral makes me think that the developers (no offense to them) have very simple viewpoints for their characters.

 

When I started my Imperial Agent on Day 1 of the post-beta, I intended to make one bad-*** evil 007 type dude. As I quested, I found that sometimes, I just couldn't make those decisions, in character, and I thought that was AWESOME - I mean, this game just CHANGED my perspective of the guy I was playing, and through my natural inclination to take the Long View as an agent of the Empire, I ended up playing neutral.

 

I'm not asking for a special reward or even special gear, I just want equivalent gear available for people who reach level 50 without going, say, further than light 1 or dark 1. It could be based on how many points you have - I have 4500 and -4600, approximately. Don't make me hunt down all the datacron crystals and otherwise scrounge for neutral items.

 

Worse, the Legacy system really makes me feel like a j*****s for not going Dark V.

 

I know that the devs plan on adding in a more in-depth grey side experience, and I definitely appreciate that. That said, this is bumming me out _now_, and making me less eager to play my gimped agent.

 

Please throw us a bone now, and we will happily wait for something more elaborate later on down the line.

[FooBard]

The whole Dark/Light aspect of the game is an utter joke anyway.

 

It is ONLY gear driven, and both sides have the exact same gear.

 

Poor implementation.

[Holden_Dissent]

I think neutral should be able to use both dark and light gears.

 

*** is a gears?

[Luca]

I hope they'll add more neutral gear too, as they hinted a while ago (I think James Olhen, among others); as a roleplayer, I play without light/dark side indicators on the dialogue wheel, and while I can obviously tell what I'm going to "get" with a certain answer, the reaction of my character might lead him toward unexpected paths, and end up being grey.

 

There is no min./max. involved or the wish to take a side or not, just the (roleplayed) individual reaction of my character to a certain situation.

[Hokonoso]

Does no one have this problem?? Does no one else want to go grey or be neutral??

 

i dont have this problem cause it took 5 days to reach 50, 2 days to reach bm and only a few hours to get bm relics/weapon... i basically only had this problem for a few days while leveling, after 50 there is no problem, there are 0 restrictions on gear at 50 which is the endgame, not having the relics while leveling up is no biggy, and i used mys tarter weapon all the way to 50 since all i had to do was replace a barrel every few levels... so no, i didnt have this problem, and my main toon is neutral alignment...

[Achromatis]

Yeh for now youll just have to live with it because Bioware doesnt actually care about this. My problem was that as a Grey Sith who took Artifice none of the relics I can get through Treasure Hunting are usable - every relic you find requires an alignment.

 

Though thankfully PvP and PvE gear at 50 doesnt have alignment requirements.

[paspinall]

Yeah I play neutral, I ignored relics until i could get one from matrix shards and then got a second one from end game content as they dont have an aligment on them. And I didnt need to buy a weapon from a vendor as I had a moddable weapon anyway.

 

I have had zero problems actually being neutral.

[toliman]

Yeah I play neutral, I ignored relics until i could get one from matrix shards and then got a second one from end game content as they dont have an aligment on them. And I didnt need to buy a weapon from a vendor as I had a moddable weapon anyway.

 

I have had zero problems actually being neutral.

 

if it's your first character, you'll suffer for the choice, as jedi / sith commendation / vendor / flashpoint and quest weapons have alignment.

 

not all do, just most. the advice for buying having alts send you custom gear, if you can buy the saber mods, should actually tide you over, if you can find the GTN selling approproate level crystals, hilts or have artifice/synthweaving to fill in those gaps, or you can remove the BoP mods in the saber.

 

the most annoying thing is to play a jedi or sith, and use a vibroblade or techblade.

 

it breaks the quest cinematics.

 

actually playing with a 5ft wide sword, looks hilarious the first hour, after that, not so much. hearing your old fashioned, non-glowbat sword, ignite, during quest events and cinematics, is often hilarious and akward.

[Blistrich]

I started off playing it neutral as a Smuggler. I picked up 750 DS points along the way, but I am still on the LS +1000 and rapidly gaining as more choices are becoming available in the mid levels.

 

In fact, there have only been a few times where it simply made sense to me that my character would choose the Dark option ("No, I'm not going somewhere else for that recording, so just give it to me now or you die!"), and I haven't regretted the decision to do so. Gives my guy depth. However, as has been pointed out, the game is all about making a choice as to whether you are a predominantly good person (right action) or a predominantly bad person (negative action), and eventually you have to stumble down one of the two paths, for better or for worse.

 

I chose Light regularly, but that doesn't mean I don't also make the occasional Dark choice.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Blistrich

[DranEico]

I started off playing it neutral as a Smuggler. I picked up 750 DS points along the way, but I am still on the LS +1000 and rapidly gaining as more choices are becoming available in the mid levels.

 

In fact, there have only been a few times where it simply made sense to me that my character would choose the Dark option ("No, I'm not going somewhere else for that recording, so just give it to me now or you die!"), and I haven't regretted the decision to do so. Gives my guy depth. However, as has been pointed out, the game is all about making a choice as to whether you are a predominantly good person (right action) or a predominantly bad person (negative action), and eventually you have to stumble down one of the two paths, for better or for worse.

 

I chose Light regularly, but that doesn't mean I don't also make the occasional Dark choice.

 

Here's one big problem with this for me - I pick a character point of view that will drive their decisions, so maybe my trooper is a bit of a fascist - they will still help republic citizens; maybe my bounty hunter is good, but always fulfills the contract, maybe my inquisitor as a former slave abhors unwarranted cruelty - there is no predominantly good or bad, their point of view makes the bounty hunters honor code means some people will get killed, but only when the contract calls for it.

 

So to have any depth at all gray or neutral alignment is the ONLY way you can go, and then end up with NOTHING.

 

Last I checked the Star Wars universe was filled with plenty of gray characters that were plenty powerful.

[Nagaije]

Today , 11:55 AM | #15

EDIT REPORT POST QUOTE

I wish they would grant Grey Force Characters more options like their own kind of Force Powers and abilities, artifacts, equipment Etc. that Jolee Bindo may have learned on his own or maybe his his wife Nayama. From his wandering on the Shadowlands. His discovery of an ancient computer guarding a Star Map..." among other things. There is a wealth of a very good story/plot there. Artifacts, equipment (Robes and all), Lore Taken from Jensaarai stories, the Voss Mystics and the Grey Paladins. The planets they lived or stayed on Kashyyyk, the event on the Ukatis system. It would really make a great diversity for the game.

 

There are many things that could be taken and developed from this link to create another Expansion if you will http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jolee_Bindo

 

The Grey Side is rather overlooked / neglected and gamers left wanting.

 

I pray the developers will come up with something wonderful and really exciting for the Grey side players and make SWTOR (extending) game play soar into greater heights in the MOBA gameworld.

[jedip_enguin]

My Jugg is grey and never really had any issues with this, but I use a legacy saber and never bother with relics until I max out.

 

Also, holy necro Batman!!

Edited February 24, 2014 by jedip_enguin