Dasthug Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 lol...ah, ok. try to wrap your head around this - its the principle of dumbing things down and making things easier that some people (myself included) are arguing against. FACT - dual spec makes the possibility of one character being able to be specced for multiple scenarios, at NO COST. some people dont agree with you and think this ability should be earned, not just handed out. the same argument could be had for mounts - side a says everyone should get one for free at level one side b says everyone should have to earn and pay credits for one and not until level 25 who is right? Going by current genre examples, Dual spec isn't handed out free. It has to be purchased for X credits at X level, just like mounts. Your argument is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But is that really choice though? Making people reroll the same class up to 50 just to use another spec is rediculous. Giving people duel specs will allow them to reroll a different class. People will get bored of this game if they have to level another character of a class they already leveld to 50. They have the option to change within their AC now, but the current system prevents them from doing it at will. However, they had plenty of time to decide that their current AC isn't for them and to start again if they wanted to. Asking to change within ACs is basically asking for a free class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTenor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think the amount of storylines and time put into it promotes multiple playthroughs. I think the legacy system promotes multiple playthroughs. I think dual specs would go right against the 2 previously mentioned items and not make any sense in this game. Which is interesting for me, because i'm usually for dual specs. Story lines are great and am playing all of them. Haven't been to or seen or know what the legacy system entails. Regardless dual spec will be most welcome for those that want to experience different side of their AC. I know I'm going to give the 'there are many looking for Group Tank/Healer' speech but it is very true at least on my server. I have a sage specced as a healer and I like to heal in flashpoints heroics etc. However most of the time I'm healing my companion and not doing too much damage. I would like to experience telekinetic side of the AC as well. Sure I can roll a sorcerer and do that and I'm trying the shared tree Madness for him/her. In fact my assassin is madness as well. That tree is fun for both AC's but what If I'm want to heal as the sorc or a goup needs 1? It's enough that I'm already playing all 16 AC's Why should I make 48 characters to experience and play all the trees available and pay the ridiculous fees for re-spec? With dual spec That would alleviate making so many characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) See, you are under the misguided notion that one spec isn't playing a class to its "maximum effectiveness". If you want (CHOICE) to play as another spec, you most certainly can, but it does involve another character. No, they have already given me the chocie to play another spec. All i have to do is go to the fleet, pay the fee, re-spec, and put the skills on my bar. The option to change spec's is already in the game. If they meant for talent trees to be final, there would be no option to respec. Clearly they intended people to be able to respec, to play multiple aspects of their character. It doesnt matter how good I am at dps if one of our healers can't show up and I have to heal. In this case, I am nowhere near effective, and if Bioware MEANT for me to be innefective, or for me to NOT be able to heal, they would NOT have put the option in the game. Maybe you like mastering 1/3 of your class. But some, (i would even argue most) players like being able to master all of them. Edited January 10, 2012 by invispoet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Whether something affects another player or not is irrelevant if it goes against how the game is meant to be played. So you're a dev now? Thanks...good to know. How about you take your sanctimonious BS somewhere else...m'kay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That isn't "choice". You have only one option: make and level up a new character. No, you can CHOOSE to roll a new class if the one you have isn't getting it done for you. I have no sympathy for someone who got to 50 and then started whining about their AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmoose Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd love to see a dual spec option. Would make the game less tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varghjerta Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) What you're failing to realize is that A) these groups are trying to optimize for content that is difficult for them (usually due to it being a pug and somewhat unorganized), and B) this would happen even without dual spec. Those players would just be asked to go hearth out and respec instead of having the spec already set up. All dual spec does is make this happen with less downtime. But then we are talking about should all content be the same difficulty for everyone while giving same rewards? And on B i do disagree. only thing that it was need in WoW was in TBC and LOCK's issue that was it But every player and his grandma seems to have come to there on these forums............... And yes i do agree that it is a convinience having dual specc. But aswell when you give the choice on removing all the weakness you are intrested in i do think is wrong . Example from the only game with dual specc. Mages/dps most in my guild didnt have pvp/pve specc instead mages/Dps had single/aoe specc Mt had actally 2 tanks specc most healers had 2 pve healing speccs main/raid And we switched between them But if that aint a negative thing towards someone that cant or want DS i dont know what is Edited January 10, 2012 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velocity-x Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dual Spec: a feature expected by any MMO player, and left out of SWTOR See also:<list too long for posting> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskinzz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Except changing classes would mean you're SKIPPING storylines, which means you're LOSING content. If they meant the atlent trees to be irrevocable, they would have done so. You can't choose to be a mercenary, then change your mind and change to a powertech. If they didnt want you to be able to change from a dps mercenary to a healing mercenary, they would have specifically made it so that you can't. ALL mercenaries know how to blow things up, and they ALL know how to heal. They just happen to change their tactics depending on the situation. No one is asking for AC changes, No one is asking for instant transport anywhere you want, or any other crazy ******** like that. But keep throwing up strawman arguments that have nothing to do with the topic. I still have yet to see ANYONE say in a logical and well thought out manner how dual spec's will 'ruin the game', either for them, or for everyone. You hurt no one by putting it in, and you help EVERYONE get groups faster. then why not no cooldown on fast travel? it would help EVERYONE group faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 So you're a dev now? Thanks...good to know. How about you take your sanctimonious BS somewhere else...m'kay? Well, so far I'm right since that's the way the game's rules are. And you should take a long hard look in the mirror before calling someone else sanctimonious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabachelor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This thing still going We are going to get dual spec its just a matter of when its implemented!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This thing still going We are going to get dual spec its just a matter of when its implemented!! Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrose Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) NO DUAL SPEC. If you're going to Dual spec you might as well remove the level/class based system and put in a skill based system like Darkfall or UO style.....Skyrim even Dual spec is a half attempt of giving players the option to customize..or be hybrid, which is exactly what a skill based system would do..... I DONT KNOW WHY MORE MMOs ARENT SKILL BASED. I swear, the next Sandbox MMO with Skill system instead of levels....im definitely there for at least 90 days. I have to agree with your argument. Frankly I think not having duel spec makes people better gamers. its called adapting within your chosen spec. Source? Stephen Raid mentioned in in the interview with Totalbiscuit. What you mean source? Its practically common knowledge now do your research on you the game your paying for. http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Edited January 10, 2012 by Avrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabachelor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Source? straight from swtor Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zootzoot Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If they meant for talent trees to be final, there would be no option to respec. Clearly they intended people to be able to respec, to play multiple aspects of their character. It doesnt matter how good I am at dps if one of our healers can't show up and I have to heal. In this case, I am nowhere near effective, and if Bioware MEANT for me to be innefective, or for me to NOT be able to heal, they would NOT have put the option in the game. Maybe you like mastering 1/3 of your class. But some, (i would even argue most) players like being able to master all of them. There also wouldn't be obvious PVP talents that do little for someone Raiding or doing FP's. The anti Dual spec crowd is eerily similar to the anti anything crowd in real life who try and force their values on everyone. Simple fact...if they enable a real Dual Spec option for purchase just don't buy it.....but also you're never allowed to respec sine that would butcher the whole idea of an RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invispoet Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Source? Oh, you're one of those people that didnt bother reading the class description/playstyle/advanced class tabs when you made your character. I'll give you time to go do that, but to be honest, it doesnt matter. If they didnt want us to be able to respec, they would NOT have put it in the game. Clearly they want us able to respec, as everyone can do it at any time. Making the process more intuitive/convenient is not going to kill (or even hurt) anyone. All it would do is make the 3/7/15 other people waiting on you to respec waste less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 NO DUAL SPEC. If you're going to Dual spec you might as well remove the level/class based system and put in a skill based system like Darkfall or UO style.....Skyrim even Dual spec is a half attempt of giving players the option to customize..or be hybrid, which is exactly what a skill based system would do..... I DONT KNOW WHY MORE MMOs ARENT SKILL BASED. I swear, the next Sandbox MMO with Skill system instead of levels....im definitely there for at least 90 days. I'm not a huge fan of sandbox, but your point is still dead on. Dual specs make the entire point of choosing a spec largely irrelevant. If you do that, put all the talents into one tree and give us double the points to spend. Then, when everyone has the same build, remove the talents...a la WoW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabachelor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 For a fun read http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Dual - Spec question included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasthug Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No, you can CHOOSE to roll a new class if the one you have isn't getting it done for you. I have no sympathy for someone who got to 50 and then started whining about their AC. Since when is this thread about AC's? We are talking about changing specs within an AC. I stand by my previous assertion: If I have a level 50 merc that is currently DPS specced, it's pretty absurd that I'd be forced to level another merc to 50 if I want to be able to heal without having to constantly respec. Having only one option is the opposite of a choice. Choosing between the only action available and taking no action at all isn't really a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 straight from swtor Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP) Want /= will. Though I wish it did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentontudor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think the amount of storylines and time put into it promotes multiple playthroughs. I think the legacy system promotes multiple playthroughs. I think dual specs would go right against the 2 previously mentioned items and not make any sense in this game. Which is interesting for me, because i'm usually for dual specs. ^ Man, I completely agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Since when is this thread about AC's? We are talking about changing specs within an AC. I stand by my previous assertion: If I have a level 50 merc that is currently DPS specced, it's pretty absurd that I'd be forced to level another merc to 50 if I want to be able to heal without having to constantly respec. Having only one option is the opposite of a choice. Choosing between the only action available and taking no action at all isn't really a choice. Well, you can ALREADY change your within AC spec so what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasthug Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well, you can ALREADY change your within AC spec so what's the problem? You can ALREADY change within your AC spec, so what's the problem with Dual Spec allowing you to do so more easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskinzz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, you're one of those people that didnt bother reading the class description/playstyle/advanced class tabs when you made your character. I'll give you time to go do that, but to be honest, it doesnt matter. If they didnt want us to be able to respec, they would NOT have put it in the game. Clearly they want us able to respec, as everyone can do it at any time. Making the process more intuitive/convenient is not going to kill (or even hurt) anyone. All it would do is make the 3/7/15 other people waiting on you to respec waste less time. so basically, your saying your perfectly fine paying the fee's for respec and the system that is in place is perfectly fine, your only complaint is the travel time? if thats the case, get your **** together, do a little planning and know what role your going to spec ahead of time so that your prepared... that way 3/7/15 arent waiting on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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